Immigration

[Trumo]

Did anybody watch that Channel 4 doc 'Make Leicester British' last night? As I'm from the city and currently live there, I know there is a large ethnic population in the city. I know some of the areas where the people on the show live and where the different ethnic groups settle. As I'm not an immigrant like many of those featured on the show, I have no personal perspective of the problems immigrants and asylum seekers face when they come to live in this country. They often get stigmatised as scroungers who are unwilling to integrate and contribute to the local community but that's a broad brush to describe everybody who comes over when the reality is that it's usually a few bad apples spoiling it for the rest. It's possible to be a decent caring person yet be ignorant of the issues and problems relating to immigrants and asylum seekers, but if that ignorance comes with an obnoxious and bolshy attitude as displayed by a few of the people featured, it only leads to friction, mistrust, misinformation and a continuation of the problems.

[Mook]

I watched it, 'bit of a mongfest.

 

Like Racist Big Brother or something.

[Section_31]

Did anybody watch that Channel 4 doc 'Make Leicester British' last night? As I'm from the city and currently live there, I know there is a large ethnic population in the city. I know some of the areas where the people on the show live and where the different ethnic groups settle. As I'm not an immigrant like many of those featured on the show, I have no personal perspective of the problems immigrants and asylum seekers face when they come to live in this country. They often get stigmatised as scroungers who are unwilling to integrate and contribute to the local community but that's a broad brush to describe everybody who comes over when the reality is that it's usually a few bad apples spoiling it for the rest. It's possible to be a decent caring person yet be ignorant of the issues and problems relating to immigrants and asylum seekers, but if that ignorance comes with an obnoxious and bolshy attitude as displayed by a few of the people featured, it only leads to friction, mistrust, misinformation and a continuation of the problems.

 

Saw it advertised but I find that type of thing pointless to an extent, as immigration debates should be about the abstract not the personal. It shouldn't be about 'what do I think of you personally, you're alright therefore you should be allowed to be British, but I don't like him because he makes no attempt to join me down the pub and do British things'. The immigration debate should be about the practicalities of having large communities which don't integrate.

[Harry Squatter]

It's all my fault

[Trumo]

Of course it was in no way representative of the reality here, and that was always going to be the case when you choose argumentative cunts rather than normal people.

[Jairzinho]

Did anybody watch that Channel 4 doc 'Make Leicester British' last night? As I'm from the city and currently live there, I know there is a large ethnic population in the city. I know some of the areas where the people on the show live and where the different ethnic groups settle. As I'm not an immigrant like many of those featured on the show, I have no personal perspective of the problems immigrants and asylum seekers face when they come to live in this country. They often get stigmatised as scroungers who are unwilling to integrate and contribute to the local community but that's a broad brush to describe everybody who comes over when the reality is that it's usually a few bad apples spoiling it for the rest. It's possible to be a decent caring person yet be ignorant of the issues and problems relating to immigrants and asylum seekers, but if that ignorance comes with an obnoxious and bolshy attitude as displayed by a few of the people featured, it only leads to friction, mistrust, misinformation and a continuation of the problems.

 

Yes, I did. 

 

Really liked the Polish girl. Think I might love her a bit actually.

 

To be honest, I thought most of the people were ok. The Indian woman was the biggest cunt. The Indian fella just appeared to be having a bit of a breakdown, just needed someone to talk to as it appeared he'd been having something of an identity crisis. The Polish and Lithuanian lads were sound. The old English fella was just thick as fuck, but his heart was in the right place. The Somalian woman was understandably having the most difficulty adapting to life in England.

 

Didn't see the program as really pushing an anti-immigration agenda. The ending was reasonably pleasant, if anything.

 

What was a bit annoying, and I've no idea if it was deliberate (in so much as people were selected that either didn't have the inclination and/or ability to articulate such views) was that no-one made the argument "perhaps we'd be better off aiming our anger at tax dodging multi nationals and the banking sector from a purely economic point of view".

[Trumo]

Yes, I did. 

 

Really liked the Polish girl. Think I might love her a bit actually.

 

To be honest, I thought most of the people were ok. The Indian woman was the biggest cunt. The Indian fella just appeared to be having a bit of a breakdown. The Polish and Lithuanian lads were sound. The old English fella was just thick as fuck, but his heart was in the right place. The Somalian woman was understandably having the most difficulty adapting to live in England.

 

Didn't see the program as really pushing an anti-immigration agenda. The ending was reasonably pleasant, if anything.

 

The Somalian woman was definitely living in the wrong area. Not because of the local people being racist, treating her badly and all the drug and drink problems in that area (it's not the best area that's true, but the Indian woman lives in a worse area for that sort of thing), but because she's far away from places where other Somalians live. I'm not saying they should all live in one area close to each other, but her circumstances mean that she needs more of a support network than what she was portrayed as having. That support network has to start from within her own Somalian community as they'll all have some shared experiences and similar problems with acclimatisation. As it is, her kids are growing up isolated and it does them no good as regards their own development.

 

The two Indians definitely came off worse. The woman was far too bossy and easily riled, which may explain the heart condition she said caused her to give up work. Sure, she had a valid gripe about not being able to claim any income support and so on (one of the big reasons why people in this country get so angry about the UK's policy and how priority is seemingly given to those from elsewhere) but her attitude and tendency towards being confrontational doesn't help her. The bloke may well have some valid gripes too but his 'my way or the highway' approach to life must be a big reason why his wife doesn't want anything to do with him. You can see why those two fall out with people.

 

It was the younger ones who came off well. They all want to work and contribute and pay their way in life, and maybe they're all a bit too young to have such deep-seated prejudices as the older ones.

[Jairzinho]

The Somalian woman was definitely living in the wrong area. Not because of the local people being racist, treating her badly and all the drug and drink problems in that area (it's not the best area that's true, but the Indian woman lives in a worse area for that sort of thing), but because she's far away from places where other Somalians live. I'm not saying they should all live in one area close to each other, but her circumstances mean that she needs more of a support network than what she was portrayed as having. That support network has to start from within her own Somalian community as they'll all have some shared experiences and similar problems with acclimatisation. As it is, her kids are growing up isolated and it does them no good as regards their own development.

 

The two Indians definitely came off worse. The woman was far too bossy and easily riled, which may explain the heart condition she said caused her to give up work. Sure, she had a valid gripe about not being able to claim any income support and so on (one of the big reasons why people in this country get so angry about the UK's policy and how priority is seemingly given to those from elsewhere) but her attitude and tendency towards being confrontational doesn't help her. The bloke may well have some valid gripes too but his 'my way or the highway' approach to life must be a big reason why his wife doesn't want anything to do with him. You can see why those two fall out with people.

 

It was the younger ones who came off well. They all want to work and contribute and pay their way in life, and maybe they're all a bit too young to have such deep-seated prejudices as the older ones.

 

I think we only really got a glimpse of what was going on with the Indian fella. I actually felt a bit sorry for him. You could tell from his mood swings that he was pretty troubled. He had created the "Super Brit" identity and was very defensive when anyone questioned him on it. I really don't think he was convinced by it himself, just his way of dealing with things. When he finally allowed the Polish girl, that lovely lovely Polish girl, to break through his stubborn emotional barrier, to gain a bit of trust, he ended up becoming quite protective of her. 

 

The younger ones will have grown up, both here and abroad, with entirely different acceptable norms/values. Also they were all from Eastern Europe, which, obviously, is quite different to India. History with Britain also often plays a role. How the country is viewed by people before they come here.

 

One thing that my mate noticed when we watched it, why are there never any East Asians in these type of programs?

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Report on the Guardian website that EU migration over the past 11 years approx has generated a net benefit of £20bn to the UK economy, with tax receipts far exceeding benefit payments etc.

 

But, hey, let's vote UKIP!

[lifetime fan]

 

Immigrants from the 10 countries which joined the EU in 2004 contributed more to the UK than they took out in benefits, according to a new study.

 

They added £4.96bn more in taxes in the years to 2011 than they took out in public services.

 

That is according to the calculations of the report by University College London's Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration.

 

The analysis includes migrants' share of all public services costs.

 

It includes costs that increase when the population increases, such as health and education, and those that stay fixed, such as the armed forces and defence.

 

If the fixed costs are excluded, the net benefit of immigration from countries such as Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic would more than double to £10.5bn.

 

"The net benefits of immigration from the rest of the European Union (the richer more developed countries) was £15bn, with full costs allocated, and £18bn without," wrote BBC Economics Editor Robert Peston in his blog.

[Rico1304]

Immigrants from the 10 countries which joined the EU in 2004 contributed more to the UK than they took out in benefits, according to a new study.

They added £4.96bn more in taxes in the years to 2011 than they took out in public services.

That is according to the calculations of the report by University College London's Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration.

The analysis includes migrants' share of all public services costs.

It includes costs that increase when the population increases, such as health and education, and those that stay fixed, such as the armed forces and defence.

If the fixed costs are excluded, the net benefit of immigration from countries such as Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic would more than double to £10.5bn.

"The net benefits of immigration from the rest of the European Union (the richer more developed countries) was £15bn, with full costs allocated, and £18bn without," wrote BBC Economics Editor Robert Peston in his blog.

Hopefully all 3 parties will batter the UKIPs with that over the next few months - the live debates should be interesting to watch him squirm. I'd imagine his response will be 'it'd have been more if we were more selective' but they should be able to dismantle him .

[Cardie]

Pfft coming over here improving our economy and paying their taxes.

 

 

[PestiRed]

They should start a one in, one out policy. Every time someone wants to come into the country, they seek out a UKIP voter and give them a one way ticket to the USA. Country would be massively improved in no time

[Cardie]

Has anyone sought the view of ex-pats on why immigration is wrong and a drain on the uk.

 

[PestiRed]

They should do, expats tend to be far more intelligent

[Rico1304]

Has anyone sought the view of ex-pats on why immigration is wrong and a drain on the uk.

I saw a poll the other day and a huge majority wanted free movement of labour into the UK stopped, but a bigger majority wanted the right to work anywhere in Europe.

[Section_31]

The comparison of emigrants and immigrants is often unjust. My mate lives in Australia and he programs software for a mining company, there's only a couple of dozen people in the world who can do it and he's on mega bucks. There's a difference between that and letting 10,000 unskilled lads from Gateshead suddenly descend on Melbourne literally overnight to do low skilled work, undercut local wages and get full access to finite resources like healthcare and education. Eastern European Economic migration and immigration to an extent are different debates in my opinion, the former seems to go hand in hand with doing what's best for anyone who doesn't like to pay an honest wage, 'English people are lazy' translates as 'I enjoy the fruits of capitalism but the free market principle of supply and demand should apply to everyone else except me, therefore I won't attract people to a shit job with an extra three quid an hour - which I want for myself - I'll access this slave labour force instead and demonise the locals as an excuse for doing so'.

[Cardie]

Doesn't surprise me. Behind the racists they're my second favourite group to listen to on the subject of immigration.

 

They tuk arrr jerbs.....that we gave up to live in a foreign country so we could take other people jerbs.

 

 

[PestiRed]

Not really my experience of the expat community - although my experience would generally fall into the former category that Sec describes rather than the latter.

[stringvest]

The comparison of emigrants and immigrants is often unjust. My mate lives in Australia and he programs software for a mining company, there's only a couple of dozen people in the world who can do it and he's on mega bucks. There's a difference between that and letting 10,000 unskilled lads from Gateshead suddenly descend on Melbourne literally overnight to do low skilled work, undercut local wages and get full access to finite resources like healthcare and education. Eastern European Economic migration and immigration to an extent are different debates in my opinion, the former seems to go hand in hand with doing what's best for anyone who doesn't like to pay an honest wage, 'English people are lazy' translates as 'I enjoy the fruits of capitalism but the free market principle of supply and demand should apply to everyone else except me, therefore I won't attract people to a shit job with an extra three quid an hour - which I want for myself - I'll access this slave labour force instead and demonise the locals as an excuse for doing so'.

 

Perth mate.  That's where all the low skilled go. 

[Tyler Durden]

The comparison of emigrants and immigrants is often unjust. My mate lives in Australia and he programs software for a mining company, there's only a couple of dozen people in the world who can do it and he's on mega bucks. There's a difference between that and letting 10,000 unskilled lads from Gateshead suddenly descend on Melbourne literally overnight to do low skilled work, undercut local wages and get full access to finite resources like healthcare and education. Eastern European Economic migration and immigration to an extent are different debates in my opinion, the former seems to go hand in hand with doing what's best for anyone who doesn't like to pay an honest wage, 'English people are lazy' translates as 'I enjoy the fruits of capitalism but the free market principle of supply and demand should apply to everyone else except me, therefore I won't attract people to a shit job with an extra three quid an hour - which I want for myself - I'll access this slave labour force instead and demonise the locals as an excuse for doing so'.

Pretty much how I see it, being from the construction industry and seeing first hand how wages have been kept pretty low by the influx of Eastern Europeans over the 12 or so years I've been in it and this during what was a massive boom in the construction industry (untill 2008/9 that is).

 

I'd best not say that too loud though or I might get called a little englander

[Jairzinho]

Were you on really big money before the influx?

[stringvest]

Were you on really big money before the influx?

 

Mega mate.  Mega.  Now I'm on the bones of my arse because of these Hungarian workers that have come over here as their jobs have been taken by the English.  

[PestiRed]

Mega mate.  Mega.  Now I'm on the bones of my arse because of these Hungarian workers that have come over here as their jobs have been taken by the English.

 

I create jobs in Hungary, mostly by taking them away from more expensive Western countries and getting them done better than the lazy, complacent western devils. Often this results in members of my workforce being poached to go and work in those countries - it's a right pain in the arse, I'd keep them here if I could.

 

So I create jobs here, destroy jobs elsewhere and train up Hungarians so that they can emigrate and steal the few jobs overseas that I don't destroy. Basically I am the anti-Farage

[Tyler Durden]

Were you on really big money before the influx?

I didn't say it had pushed them down I said they had been kept low, in other words they hadn't risen in accordance with how a massive housing/building boom should dictate they should have done.

 

I've seen it first hand with polish mostly accepting less money then going rates and therefore undermining the going rates at the time

 

It's the arrogance of some though that has seen the rise of mongs like ukip, the ones in the middle like myself who can see the pros and cons just get swept to one side, you either want all foreign workers banned or unlimited immigration when the truth is most would like a bit of both