Marseille v Liverpool Preview

[Dublin Red]

I thought Giles’s synopsis of Rafa as a manager was quite accurate last night. He believes Rafa has great qualities that all great managers require ( eg decision making, getting the players to work hard and play for you, respect etc ) but he also thinks Rafa is flawed on his fundamental beliefs on how the game should be played.

Basically, Rafa prefers workers who will sweat blood for the cause ; a micro manager obsessed with formations and fitness levels, to the point perhaps where the fact that some players aren’t ideally suited to some positions at all becomes irrelevant in his mind as long as they “do a job”. A manager who appears to overly concentrate on the opposition where stopping them playing seems to be his main concern.

 

Last night was an excellent result for us but Reira’s brief contribution apart, I thought we were atrocious in the 2nd half and Rafa’s substitutions (Benayoun) and starting team selection (Lucas for Alonso ?) were poor.

[Hooch]

I no way should Kuyt start on saturday. It will be a game where Stoke have evryone behind the ball and we will need some pace and creativity to get around the back of them.

 

Also, might be a good time to give Degen a run out and see how he gets on and Agger and Sami to give Skirtel and Carra a rest.

 

Reina

 

Degen

Agger

Sami

Dossena

 

Babel

Alonso

Gerrard

Reira

 

Keane

Torres

 

I'd go with that.

 

Lucarse is going to be another one of those polarising interspaz argument players.

 

All his fans will bemoan his detractors not appreciating his "simple, effective, controlling blah blah" play, and imply that to not appreciate Lucas is simply due to the fact that you "know fuck all about the game."

 

The rest of us will be like: "But he's a useless cunt who is slow, weak, can't tackle, is shit at passing and is bypassed so often he should have directions to our goal attached to his fucking head".

 

He's like Sissoko, minus the pace, athleticism and tackling ability.

 

One of the worst midfielders to pull on a red shirt in recent history.

 

Very harsh SL. Although theres definate truth in what your saying is it really necessary to call one of our players a "useless cunt"?

I think what some people are missing is the fact both Mascherano and Alonso were tired from saturdays efforts, so Rafa had to choose one and rest the other for saturday (I guarantee Alonso will start versus Stoke). He chose a more defensive Mascherano as being away at Marseille we would be under the cosh at times.

 

And of course Lucas took Xabi's place. You see against Stoke we won't need a particularly deep holding midfield player (Mascherano) as Stoke will be defending deep themselves, so it makes sense that Xabi will be in the defensive role while I suspect Gerrard will play alongside him as Keane comes back in up front.

Thats my thinking behind it anyway.

 

What was with that guy who sounded like he was on the PA? Even on the peno he was going boooooooooooooooooo

Ha, these fans actually have their own platform to stand on facing the fans trying to rouse them all game. It's almost a job! They don't even watch the game, bloody mental.

[Kurt]

There's no doubt that Saturday will have had an effect but that's where i'd like to think that rotation has a positive impact on the team. I don't think it did tonight personally.

 

The players who looked most tired included Lucas and Dossena - two players who didn't play on Saturday. That makes me wonder if it was actual tiredness? Maybe the likes of Mascherano (especially after the injury) and Kuyt would be tired but not some of the other players.

 

Also, we looked really good going forward in the first half but that dramatically changed at half time which makes me believe that the defensive nature of the second half could have been brought about by tactical changes as opposed to tiredness.

 

 

I think the olympic and internationals is what took it`s toll on Mascherano and Lucas. Both just arrived back from China and had to turn their day around, only to return to South America to change their hours again just few days later. Thankfully Masherano was suspended for the last international, so he could return earlier, but all this time changes and travelling does take their toll just as much as matches.

 

You also saw how rusty Babel looked in his first matches after the Olympics.

[stringvest]

I think the olympic and internationals is what took it`s toll on Mascherano and Lucas. Both just arrived back from China and had to turn their day around, only to return to South America to change their hours again just few days later. Thankfully Masherano was suspended for the last international, so he could return earlier, but all this time changes and travelling does take their toll just as much as matches.

 

You also saw how rusty Babel looked in his first matches after the Olympics.

 

there's definitely something in that.

[Red Nick]

Alonso should of come on for Lucas or Mascherano to tighten the game up a bit.

 

Keane should of been given a lot more than 5 minutes.

 

Job done though, a quality 1st half performance but we held on and we are still unbeaten while not being at full throttle.

 

I'd like to see Riera start Saturday and give Babel ago instead of Kuyt down the right, rest Mascherano and Lucas and play Gerrard CM with Alonso, Keane off the kid.

 

At least Alonso will be nice and fresh for saturday to play mighty stoke

[Red Nick]

If I was Rafa Id send Mascher on a weeks holiday or least not train for a week and rest here.

 

He needs a break, the other thing is Mascher has also had the extra jet lag milles of playing for his country

[silverlining]

If I was Rafa Id send Mascher on a weeks holiday or least not train for a week and rest here.

 

He needs a break, the other thing is Mascher has also had the extra jet lag milles of playing for his country

 

Yeah, he was well below-par.

 

Masher's game is all about his energy, power and speed around the pitch. Take that away and there's fuck all else there.

[Guest TK-421]

Something just doesn't add up. We keep winning, I think Rafa must have lost the plot.

[Anubis]

It was the correct decision not to play Alonso against a quick fast-passing midfield. The fact that Lucas had a poor game did not change that.

[silverlining]

It was the correct decision not to play Alonso against a quick fast-passing midfield. The fact that Lucas had a poor game did not change that.

 

Yeah, fucking marvellous logic.

 

How would you describe Man United's game? Remember, the game in which Alonso was excellent?

 

There is no, repeat NO, footballing scenario in which Lucas is a better choice than Xabi Alonso.

[Code]

Yeah, fucking marvellous logic.

 

How would you describe Man United's game? Remember, the game in which Alonso was excellent?

 

There is no, repeat NO, footballing scenario in which Lucas is a better choice than Xabi Alonso.

 

A lot of people seems to miss positioning in their vocabulary.

 

You are completely right.

[Glen C]

I just didn't like the shape of our starting team last night. We had a lot better balance against the mancs. I don't know if they're still partially tired from going so hard against the mancs but we didn't have the same energy levels. But there were a lot of plus points from the game last night, the main one being that we won of course. Plus gerrards very special goal and was impressed with the continual improvement of babel. Riera looked good when he came on and definitely gives us balance in the team.

 

Stoke are just going to put men behind the ball and play it long, so we won't really need kuyt or mascherano, but will definitely need hyypia to start on saturday.

[Spy Bee]

There is no, repeat NO, footballing scenario in which Lucas is a better choice than Xabi Alonso.

Apart from season 07/08 maybe?

[spider-neil]

There is no, repeat NO, footballing scenario in which Lucas is a better choice than Xabi Alonso.

 

Carling cup? :whistle:

[Unrighteous]

Lucas will be a star. Mark my words.

[Anubis]

Yeah, fucking marvellous logic.

 

How would you describe Man United's game? Remember, the game in which Alonso was excellent?

 

There is no, repeat NO, footballing scenario in which Lucas is a better choice than Xabi Alonso.

Oooooooooo. Swear words. Yes, Carrick, Hargreaves and Young Scholes are VERY quick, aren't they? It is logical. Just because a player then has a bad game doesn't make it illogical.

[stringvest]

It was the correct decision not to play Alonso against a quick fast-passing midfield. The fact that Lucas had a poor game did not change that.

 

Let me throw something radical at you. What about we take a positive attitude and trust in technique? Trust in our better footballers' ability to hold on to the ball, and to pass to players on the same team? Let the opposition worry about getting the ball from our midfield?

[Unrighteous]

Let me throw something radical at you. What about we take a positive attitude and trust in technique? Trust in our better footballers' ability to hold on to the ball, and to pass to players on the same team? Let the opposition worry about getting the ball from our midfield?

 

Yeah, but Rafa wasn't thinking about battering them... He was thinking about stopping them battering us.

 

If we wanted to have more space open for their fast offense between our lines then Alonso would have been the correct choice.

 

Lucas was there to track their runners.

 

He played shite last night but it doesn't excuse that it was the right tactical decision.

[stringvest]

We picked a team to chase and harry. We'd surrendered possession before the game kicked off. That's a little depressing. The result cheered me up though. I just wish we had more players that could harry and chase and niggle and play football as well.

[Dirk]

Dirk. We all know what Dunphy and the rest are like, nobody's accepting shockjockery at all. Just address the points that I've outlined in the post above, which are:

 

We gave the ball away cheaply, had the wrong sort of players on the pitch to close the game down effectively, have bought players who are below the standard expected of a top club, and don't have the same quality as Chelsea and Man Utd?

 

Now they are essentially the points made by that panel. They are valid points. If you find them troublesome to deal with, I can understand that, but to avoid them by telling me that Dunphy has an agenda is a rookie politician's response. You're normally a lot better than that.

 

 

We did give the ball away cheaply - most of the team did. We added Lucas, Gerrard, Torres and Dossena to the line up last night. We had to play Dossena due to the injury of Auerlio and I'm pretty certain that you aren't and won't complain about the additions of Gerrard and Torres. Do you blame the entire lack of composure on Lucas? Who are these "right" players and what makes you and the wise sages of RTE so certain their omission is what caused the problem?

 

Both Chelsea and Manchester United have bought players that aren't Chelsea and Manchester United quality and have sold them. In fact, Chelsea paid £30 + million for a striker that didn't work out, £20 (ish) million for a midget winger that wasn't good enough for them. Like I said, it fails to see the bigger picture, and doesn't look at things in context and tells us little beyond the soundbite gobshittery of the chattering classes.

Edited September 17, 2008 by Dirk
Typos.

[Guest LFD]

Lucas did not have his best game.

 

But let's not go OTT - he's not rubbish, just the same he's no world beater, at present.

 

He put in lots of running last night and although his composure / distribution of the ball was not the best. He diid help the defense out by working hard.

 

I think he's got lots of improving to do, but some of the criticism he gets is OTT as is some of the praise.

[Owen]

Must... find.... scapegoat.

 

Need to... apportion... blame... for good... result.

[Dirk]

Must... find.... scapegoat.

 

Need to... apportion... blame... for good... result.

 

Haha. I agree in the main. Lucas was poor and I think we might have faired better with Alonso, as he might have helped us keep possession better but I don't think that's the only reason we were so bad in the second half and he certainly can't be blamed for the mass exodus of composure.

[Paul]

Must... find.... scapegoat.

 

Need to... apportion... blame... for good... result.

 

That's the thing I don't get about some of the reaction to last night - an away win in the CL group games is a superb result anyway. However, when you consider Marseilles' quality, it's even better than that. They were one of the best attacking sides we've faced in ages. They had pace, strength and skill in abundance and, but for Pepe, we'd have lost. I reckon we'll see most of their attack playing English league football within three years.

[Josef Svejk]

Just a reminder: We won. Away in the Champions League. Against a good team. In a difficult environment. After a tough game on Saturday.

 

Lucas didn't play well. We were sloppy for periods.

 

Nothing else to say...