Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Jairzinho]

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/07/01/senior-labour-party-insider-says-plan-oust-corbyn-play-10-months-ago-exclusive/

[Anubis]

For all you Gloria Del Piero fans, you can follow your sweetheart's thoughts in The Sun today. Enjoy.

[Barrington Womble]

Len McCluskey was on Marr earlier putting the case for keeping corbyn. Whilst I completely understood his position and largely agreed with it, I just don't see how we would see a Labour government with corbyn as PM. Surely the focus now has to be on exposing the tory weaknesses and be ready to fight an election at any point from this autumn.

 

[Jairzinho]

Len McCluskey was on Marr earlier putting the case for keeping corbyn. Whilst I completely understood his position and largely agreed with it, I just don't see how we would see a Labour government with corbyn as PM. Surely the focus now has to be on exposing the tory weaknesses and be ready to fight an election at any point from this autumn.

 

Who would you replace him with to win the next election?

[Barrington Womble]

Who would you replace him with to win the next election?

No fucking idea to be honest mate. I just know the swing voters in middle England won't vote for him and he's been so destroyed by the right wing press I don't believe he can recover.

[Bobby Hundreds]

The media choose whose electable.

[Jairzinho]

No fucking idea to be honest mate. I just know the swing voters in middle England won't vote for him and he's been so destroyed by the right wing press I don't believe he can recover.

 

I don't think it's the right wing press that are the problem. What's perceived as the left wing press is more of a problem.

[Sugar Ape]

No fucking idea to be honest mate. I just know the swing voters in middle England won't vote for him and he's been so destroyed by the right wing press I don't believe he can recover.

This is from the Guardian/Observer today:

 

 

Meanwhile, a leaked internal analysis of Labour’s performance in May’s local elections, obtained by the Observer, offers a grim forecast of the party’s future under Corbyn.

 

The analysis concludes that they have piled up votes in parts of the country where it would make little difference in a general election, while losing support in key marginal seats.

 

“Outside the areas with new ward boundaries, we made 91 losses and 68 gains compared to when these seats were last contested in 2012,” officials write.

 

“We can look into the specific areas changing hands to better understand how and if the structure of Labour support is changing. In England, in those areas that would be considered key seats for a future general election, we made nine gains and 44 losses.

 

“The strategic problem is that only 14% of our gains were in areas we need in order to win general elections – while just under 50% of our losses were in those areas.”

[Sugar Ape]

I don't think it's the right wing press that are the problem. What's perceived as the left wing press is more of a problem.

What is the left wing press nowadays? Genuine question, probably just the Mirror and The Guardian that can be classed as that? I'm sure some right wingers would class the BBC as left wing but that can no longer be called correct, if it ever was.

 

A fundamental problem for Corbyn I feel is that he holds the press in disdain ( which is fair enough ) and won't really engage with them but most people don't get their news from alternate sources they get them from papers and their websites or the news at ten. They've got no interest in him and he's got no interest in them so his message is only really getting out to people who already support him and already share his views.

[Barrington Womble]

I don't think it's the right wing press that are the problem. What's perceived as the left wing press is more of a problem.

Do you think? I think till very recently he was broadly supported by the guardian. I don't read the mirror, so have no idea on their point of view. He's been destroyed regularly by that modern equivalent of ceefax, the metro, and sadly more and more people are getting their only political information from it.

 

Either way, it doesn't matter too much, I just don't think he will be able to recover the credibility to drive labour to win the next election.

[Brownie]

The media choose whose electable.

Simple as that really, unfortunately.

[Barrington Womble]

This is from the Guardian/Observer today:

 

 

Meanwhile, a leaked internal analysis of Labour’s performance in May’s local elections, obtained by the Observer, offers a grim forecast of the party’s future under Corbyn.

 

The analysis concludes that they have piled up votes in parts of the country where it would make little difference in a general election, while losing support in key marginal seats.

 

“Outside the areas with new ward boundaries, we made 91 losses and 68 gains compared to when these seats were last contested in 2012,” officials write.

 

“We can look into the specific areas changing hands to better understand how and if the structure of Labour support is changing. In England, in those areas that would be considered key seats for a future general election, we made nine gains and 44 losses.

 

“The strategic problem is that only 14% of our gains were in areas we need in order to win general elections – while just under 50% of our losses were in those areas.”

It's another unfortunate aspect of our election system, that so few have so much power and influence. A vote should be equal no matter where it is cast, but unfortunately the only ones that count are those in swing seats.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

The media choose whose electable.

True - but we are still the ones who do the actual voting.

 

For the next few years, it's time to actually engage in the political process (informing ourselves and others) or to give up on democracy altogether.

[Sugar Ape]

Do you think? I think till very recently he was broadly supported by the guardian. I don't read the mirror, so have no idea on their point of view. He's been destroyed regularly by that modern equivalent of ceefax, the metro, and sadly more and more people are getting their only political information from it.

 

Either way, it doesn't matter too much, I just don't think he will be able to recover the credibility to drive labour to win the next election.

Just anecdotal evidence but the Metro is the most read paper in my work by a considerable distance I'd say. People pick up 5/6 copies on the train or bus and bring them in for others to read. Always loads of them lying around.

[Barrington Womble]

Just anecdotal evidence but the Metro is the most read paper in my work by a considerable distance I'd say. People pick up 5/6 copies on the train or bus and bring them in for others to read. Always loads of them lying around.

Yeah, it's just so easy for people. It's a fucking awful paper, stolen from 3 day old internet news normally, but the masses seem to love it. My mate works in media and the demographics of each paper are crucial to what he does. He says with almost each passing week, the metro is more and more important and the mail and the rag have some numbers and influence, they're no longer the papers they were just 3 or 4 years ago.

[Sugar Ape]

Yeah, it's just so easy for people. It's a fucking awful paper, stolen from 3 day old internet news normally, but the masses seem to love it. My mate works in media and the demographics of each paper are crucial to what he does. He says with almost each passing week, the metro is more and more important and the mail and the rag have some numbers and influence, they're no longer the papers they were just 3 or 4 years ago.

It's owned by the Mail isn't it? Or at least the company that owns the Mail.

[Barrington Womble]

True - but we are still the ones who do the actual voting.

 

For the next few years, it's time to actually engage in the political process (informing ourselves and others) or to give up on democracy altogether.

But what is that vote worth? That depends where you live. My constituency is Walton and my MP is Steve Rotherham. I have absolutely no need to vote in the next election as Rotherham will be elected no matter what I do. The same is true for politicians up and down the country. So all of this media pressure to vote in a particular way is geared to the people who do the voting in certain seats.

[Barrington Womble]

It's owned by the Mail isn't it? Or at least the company that owns the Mail.

Yes, I think so.

[Hand Shandy]

Northcliffe, who also own shitloads of local rags.

[Jairzinho]

Do you think? I think till very recently he was broadly supported by the guardian. I don't read the mirror, so have no idea on their point of view. He's been destroyed regularly by that modern equivalent of ceefax, the metro, and sadly more and more people are getting their only political information from it.

 

Either way, it doesn't matter too much, I just don't think he will be able to recover the credibility to drive labour to win the next election.

 

At no point has he been supported by the Guardian. They've hammered him pre and post election. They put up Yvette Cooper, and then had articles every single day from their regular cunts like Toynbee, Kettle, etc and also Blair, Campbell, Straw, etc. They had to issue a grovelling pseudo apology to their readership as the vast majority of the comments section were so pissed off with their abysmal coverage.

[Sugar Ape]

Northcliffe, who also own shitloads of local rags.

DMG media who directly own the Mail and the Mail website according to Wiki. Think Northcliffe is a subsidiary of them, they probably own all kinds without people realising it.

[Barrington Womble]

At no point has he been supported by the Guardian. They've hammered him pre and post election. They put up Yvette Cooper, and then had articles every single day from their regular cunts like Toynbee, Kettle, etc and also Blair, Campbell, Straw, etc. They had to issue a grovelling pseudo apology to their readership as the vast majority of the comments section were so pissed off with their abysmal coverage.

I think the guardian role out comment pieces from across the left. There's no doubt they've shifted this last 10 days, but I think before that they were reasonably supportive.

[Jairzinho]

I think the guardian role out comment pieces from across the left. There's no doubt they've shifted this last 10 days, but I think before that they were reasonably supportive.

 

Astounded that anyone could think that, but fair enough.

[Brownie]

There isn't any mainstream media source out there that's given Corbyn a fair crack of the whip.

[RoboRiise]

At no point has he been supported by the Guardian. They've hammered him pre and post election. They put up Yvette Cooper, and then had articles every single day from their regular cunts like Toynbee, Kettle, etc and also Blair, Campbell, Straw, etc. They had to issue a grovelling pseudo apology to their readership as the vast majority of the comments section were so pissed off with their abysmal coverage.

 

That is true.  I usually grab the Mirror just for mong reading on the tram because it's only a 20 minute journey and I'm half asleep when I get on it, so all I'm looking for is some made up footy news and a vague indication of what may have happened in the worldt he previous day, b ut I read quite a bit of the Guardian online and I'm struggling to remember ever seeing a truly supportive piece about Corbyn on there.

 

The Mirror was actually broadly supportive of him, or at least in no way openly hostile, until recently.