Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Sugar Ape]

I'm saying that MPs should stop bitching about the leader and do their own fucking jobs.

 

It doesn't take a miracle for a competent MP to get re-elected; it just takes a bit of honest work.

Well that's nice but it has nothing to do with what you originally said nor my subsequent question.

 

Do you not accept that a lot, in fact I'd say a majority, of people vote more with the party leader in mind than the MP they're voting for?

[FanchesterCity]

Not sure why they'd be that arsed about being deselected if that was the case. Surely none of them would lose their seats.

 

Well I think most politicians aspire to be in the winning team, and even if they have a relatively safe seat, they still want to be in power rather than opposition.

And sometimes, the very decent MP gets kicked out of his seat in a local election due to a protest at the party and not them specifically.

[Section_31]

I think people vote for Zeitgeist more than anything, the SNP had that air of radical change, progressiveness and togetherness about it, all traits Miliband's Labour never had.

 

Blair had that, even with people like Mo Mowlam, they seemed like they were people with new and fresh ideas that were wildly different from the traditional politicians on the Tory benches.

 

That's what you need to win an election but first and foremost it needs to be joined up and united. If Sturgeon and salmond were at each other's throats and rival factions were vying for influence nobody would vote for them, and rightly so.

 

Despite everything the Tories could only go into government with a coalition despite Labour's implosion and won a small minority despite labour being clueless under Miliband, there's still hope there for labour.

[Cardie]

Sign here if you feel the urge.

 

 

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  JeremyCorbyn4PM ‏@JeremyCorbyn4PM 4h4 hours ago

  More people have now signed the petition with confidence in JC than voted for him last year #KeepCorbyn

   

   

   

  

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Will that translate into actual votes though, whats the demographic of the people who signed, where are they based?

[sir roger]

Nothing is impossible, I'll hold my hands up on that one, but if he does win a GE, I would interpret that as an anti-Tory protest rather than a pro-Labour vote. But that would be impossible to prove and would sound churlish if he won (even though it's what I would I believe).

 

Labour should be buzzing about the start of the Tory party, but now, it's the other way around! The Tory Party can get away with blue murder (pardon the pun) as Labour implode.

 

I would think the Tories quite fancy a GE soon as it would give them another 4 years without too much effort, the only problem for them is that it might be a terrible economic 4 years that they'd prefer to give the Labour party!

 

I think May has come out and said she will not be looking to bring an election forward at all as there is so much Brexit fall out to deal with. Might possibly mean that the PLP might have been a bit precipitate with their coup as it was reportedly given an urgency with acceptance of a Johnson coronation and an early GE

 

Never mind thinking outside the box , couldn't even work out how to reply outside it. Doh

[dennis tooth]

I did mention that earlier. If like me, you don't think Corbyn's got enough presence (for want of a better word), you still have to replace him with someone who has - and the Labour Party's struggling on that front too. Personally I think Watson, Eagle, Burnham or even Cooper are 'better' but still woefully lacking. They need another Blair (not in policy, but in likability - another awful word, but sums it up really).

 

Even Blair was reelected fairly convincingly after Iraq, such was his appeal.

 

I feel guilty about condoning the superficiality of it all, but I accept that the superficiality of winning votes with the right face and yes, the right lies, wins elections.

So no one then.

[dennis tooth]

I just can't get my around the fact intelligent people honestly think Jeremy Corbyn would win a General Election, it just baffles me and before you ask Eagle has no chance either. Theresa May, cos that's who will win the Tory race, would wipe the fucking floor with Corbyn. I can understand people sticking with Corbyn because they see him as representing their values and therefore will argue for him but Jeremy Corbyn Prime Minister? Never, ever happening. Hope over expectation surely. He's a dreadful leader, I'm sorry but he really is the left should look towards a different leader, it's clear that's the way the members want to go and that's fair enough but you're gonna have to do better than Jeremy Corbyn, Image and perception matter massively if he's to run for the office he's running for and in this area does anybody honestly think he comes out well? Honestly ? And that's before you take Murdoch into account. I said these exact same things on here when Milliband was elected and there were loads arguing otherwise, I was right then and I'm right now.

Well appears Murdoch's backing gove so tm might not even be running against him.

Also Teresa may has fucked up many things from police to her now abandoned snoopers charter and the peado enquiry. She is constantly being put on the back foot retraction and retreat she's diabetic and doesn't have corbyns energy. If image matters look at her teeth non it's in the tooth. She's also a remain campaigner same as cameron who resigned saying only a leave campaigner should negotiate the withdrawal.

She's a rabbit in the headlights when put on the spot has zero social media presence.

Both gove and may are no cameron.

I also said milliband didn't stand a chance and was right then. I'm right now too.

I'm any case you like the other corbyn bashers are struggling to name a successor who can win.

He's not had the job 5 mins and deserves time as there's no one else.

[dennis tooth]

They're free to represent their members in opposition ad-infinitum.

If they fancy representing the British Electorate, they'd better fucking shape up, and rapidly.

They need a face that looks good, a voice that sounds good and someone who is prepared to get in front of a camera and inspire. Make believe in a Labour Party again - and to do that, you have to go to them, the general public and win them over, they won't fucking come to you Mr Corbyn.

Social medias where it's at now not tv.

[dennis tooth]

Will that translate into actual votes though, whats the demographic of the people who signed, where are they based?

Come on now.

Some people don't want to accept it cos it's not getting the same media coverage.

[dennis tooth]

Does this not suggest that 'core values' and 'deep rooted party allegiances' are a minority thing, and that most voters are more than willing to actually change from Labour to Tory and back again?

I accept some people will vote Labour come hell or high water, and same for the Tories and if a party purely wants to represent just that core vote, they can, but will almost certainly be in opposition forever. To be in power, and effect real change, they have to win the swinging voters, and it's not a few percent, it's absolute massive numbers. The majority of the UK are swingers!

If the Labour Party don't win them, the Tories will.

It won't be hard.

The Tories will suffer.

No cameron or Johnson. Both disliked by their party elites but large public support. Both stabbed in back.

Brexit caused by them 'putting it to vote' due to internal Tory politics.

They've now for to invoke article 50 making their leadership a poison chalice. Or they call a gE which they could lose. Or another so referendum which would make them look worse.

I don't see where they go and if the economy tanks in the meantime it'll be on their watch.

Rather be in jezzers shows than gove or may. Lots more internal struggles and backstabbing in the tories it could get publicly messier and messier for them.

I've said from day one corbyns biggest problem is his own mps so it's no surprise what's going on there he just had to ride it out it will all help and is helping to grow his popularity.

[King Emlyn]

Well appears Murdoch's backing gove so tm might not even be running against him.

Also Teresa may has fucked up many things from police to her now abandoned snoopers charter and the peado enquiry. She is constantly being put on the back foot retraction and retreat she's diabetic and doesn't have corbyns energy. If image matters look at her teeth non it's in the tooth. She's also a remain campaigner same as cameron who resigned saying only a leave campaigner should negotiate the withdrawal.

She's a rabbit in the headlights when put on the spot has zero social media presence.

Both gove and may are no cameron.

I also said milliband didn't stand a chance and was right then. I'm right now too.

I'm any case you like the other corbyn bashers are struggling to name a successor who can win.

He's not had the job 5 mins and deserves time as there's no one else.

We'll see.

[Strontium]

I always saw as intrinsic to the role of Labour leader, the ability to keep both wings of the party together.

 

The fact that Corbyn is incapable of doing this, irrespective of the reasons why, is surely a good sign that he's not up to the task? And that the search should begin for someone who is.

 

If it's the case that nobody else is up to the task either, that would make the Labour Party essentially unleadable.

[FanchesterCity]

So no one then.

 

I did say that very thing many posts ago.

[FanchesterCity]

Never mind thinking outside the box , couldn't even work out how to reply outside it. Doh

 

Not sure what happened there, but the bolded part was not written by me!

[FanchesterCity]

Social medias where it's at now not tv.

People watch TV on their devices now, instead of fucking about on Social Media.

Get with it Dennis man!

[Jairzinho]

There isn't a single dynamic that fits the entire history of the Labour Party of "both wings of the party" though, is there? The size of those wings changes over time. Then there are many factors behind why that happens. Who's leading the party? What is the current dominant political and/or economic ideology. Etc, etc.

 

Corbyn, a few dozen MPs, the unions, and a majority of the members are currently attempting to transition back to being a centre-left party, having had two decades of not being one. It doesn't seem a particularly fair, or accurate, time to assess whether the party is leadable. 

[SammyAftershave]

Angela fucking Eagle, electable? Who said satire was dead.

 

She's the David Moyes (excuse the ff reference) of politics.

[FanchesterCity]

It won't be hard.

The Tories will suffer.

No cameron or Johnson. Both disliked by their party elites but large public support. Both stabbed in back.

Brexit caused by them 'putting it to vote' due to internal Tory politics.

They've now for to invoke article 50 making their leadership a poison chalice. Or they call a gE which they could lose. Or another so referendum which would make them look worse.

I don't see where they go and if the economy tanks in the meantime it'll be on their watch.

Rather be in jezzers shows than gove or may. Lots more internal struggles and backstabbing in the tories it could get publicly messier and messier for them.

I've said from day one corbyns biggest problem is his own mps so it's no surprise what's going on there he just had to ride it out it will all help and is helping to grow his popularity.

 

You may be right that the disenchanted masses float to Labour rather than Tory, not really the best way to win, but a win is a win all the same.

I'm not convinced Labour offers enough to attract those masses, but a lot can change between now and a GE.

A lot could change for the Tories too of course, so we'll have to see which can get their house back in order in time for a GE.

 

Even the Lib Dems must be kicking themselves that if they'd not fucked up with the coalition, they might now be in a position to capitalise on all this. What are they doing these days the Lid Dems? are they still going? 

[King Emlyn]

She's the David Moyes (excuse the ff reference) of politics.

More like the owl

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Well that's nice but it has nothing to do with what you originally said nor my subsequent question.

 

Do you not accept that a lot, in fact I'd say a majority, of people vote more with the party leader in mind than the MP they're voting for?

If they do, that's a failure of the candidate.

[dennis tooth]

I always saw as intrinsic to the role of Labour leader, the ability to keep both wings of the party together.

 

The fact that Corbyn is incapable of doing this, irrespective of the reasons why, is surely a good sign that he's not up to the task? And that the search should begin for someone who is.

 

If it's the case that nobody else is up to the task either, that would make the Labour Party essentially unleadable.

No a good sign would be a GE result.

If he fails to win then by all means hand him his blazer.

It's odd with his 60% mandate hes not getting a chance.

Worry about your own party i would say.

[Cardie]

Come on now.

Some people don't want to accept it cos it's not getting the same media coverage.

Come on what?

 

Signing a petition means squat to the bigger picture, from that total number the only number that matters is how many people are going to vote and of those how many will vote in a contestable seat.

[dennis tooth]

Come on what?

 

Signing a petition means squat to the bigger picture, from that total number the only number that matters is how many people are going to vote and of those how many will vote in a contestable seat.

More than anyone else in Labour party would is the answer.

[Sugar Ape]

If they do, that's a failure of the candidate.

Sorry mate but I think that's quite mental. Loads of MPs at every election will gain or lose seats as a direct result of how well their leader leads the party. How popular they are, how credible they are with the general public etc...

[bonesman]

Will that translate into actual votes though, whats the demographic of the people who signed, where are they based?

I don't know mate, probably a deterrent maybe, a rattling of sabres so too speak. I signed anyway.