Darwin Nunez - Thoughts?

[Bjornebye]

4 hours ago, LFC 6 Times said:

look at the assurance/ variety and quality of the finishing from a former number 9 of ours. I just can’t see Darwin producing this on any consistent basis as much as I like him.

 

For two years Torres was arguably as good as any 9 hs been since Ronaldo (Brazilian) so fuck you or I'll compare my bird to Kate Bush circa 1979

 

3 hours ago, Code said:

Cant agree, for Salah’s chance he had to react quickly, Nunez first big one when he hit the bar was just unforgivable, and the second big one when Salah headed him through he did not even hit the ball.

 

The last one was probably the worst one because of that, but the first one you just have to score. 
 

 

 

Salah was far worse than Nunez today. 

 

1 hour ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

He's a complete enigma in the fact criticism doesn't phase him, pressure doesn't phase him, importance of the game doesn't, but facing a goal keeper he goes to pieces.

 

Yeah but you can't even make a pizza 

[Ne Moe Imya]

Genuinely don't understand how people haven't understood by now that finishing is about 80% pure luck.

I mean, granted, every now and again there's a player like Messi who consistently finishes way above their expected goals numbers over the long-term, but those are actually much rarer than you'd think. The truth is that you'd FAR rather have a striker who's "getting into position to miss them" than one who scores every chance but doesn't get that many, because as soon as the finishing fairy gets done with the latter player he turns out to be just Michu or Chamakh or whatever.

 

Even Suarez his first season and a half with us fell victim to this. Hit the post a million times, very patchy finishing. Then he went on to be one of the best strikers in world football for 7 years!

 

Not worried about Nunez. He's scoring or assisting about every 100 minutes even now, and when his finishing returns to the mean he'll be scoring 30/season for us.

[TD_LFC]

8 hours ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

 

Here in lies the problem , he's first choice central striker and will continue to be , four games now without a goal and missed chance after chance , I'm sick of him.

 

Six

[Barrington Womble]

10 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

I think you're downplaying how big of a success we need him to be. He's going to be the guy who will need to pick up Salah's slack. When you sign a player who portends to be as dangerous as he does, you expect that to eventually turn that into big production. That is what we eventually need to see, there's no doubt about it.

 

This season, he's part of this group of 4 + Salah up front and there's been some collective success because we can throw waves of forwards at people. Can we keep those 5 fit enough times to give us a chance at the title, maybe. I doubt it, but maybe.

 

But when we will have to rely on him individually to come up with big moments, he will have to do it. Pretty much that simple.

 

And I have a similar gripe with Diaz, by the way; He is talented enough that he should be a far better player, but he simply isn't. And it's fine when he is 1 player out of 5, but there is little evidence we can count on him to consistently start matches and produce.

 

At some point he might have to pick up Salah's slack. But he doesn't have to today, he needs to keep improving and contributing, which I think he is. And some of these improvements are subtle. He showed yesterday his ability to last 90 is improving. He's been struggling with this imo, likely because he hasn't done it since he's been here really, but he's getting better. And when Salah goes, he will be replaced by someone, so Nunez doesn't need to be Salah and Nunez. 

 

As for Diaz, he's another who's changing his game. For me he's a talent, but he's always looked more of an old fashioned winger to me than the type of inside forward we use. Although he supposedly played more of a 10 in Portugal. But he's finding ways to get into scoring positions more often. I don't think it's working too well for him at the moment. But I also think there is something not quite the same physically since the injury. He's another who can keep improving and while he does, we need to embrace it. 

 

9 hours ago, TD_LFC said:

 

I'm not desperate for him to fail, I'm desperate for him to be better than he is but I'm not convinced he'll be the player lots of people already thought he was before this shift in expectation.

 

 

 

When he does play well, you come on here and still complain about it, either directly or with back handed complements. Nothing you say is constructive. You can't wait to come on here and slate him when he hasn't scored. It embarrassing to be honest. Everton behaviour. 

 

9 hours ago, dave u said:

Unlucky today, deserved a goal.

 

Those ripping his hair are almost certainly those who have lost or are losing theirs. 

 

I was with you in the first sentence. He can fuck off with the shit he's doing with his hair. He looks a right tit. 

 

7 hours ago, Mil-ing Around said:

 

Nah mate wasn't aimed at you. I think you make some good posts on here and talk sense. I agree with what your saying. 

 

Yeah raw is unfinished, usually it's your first touch that is raw. Balls bounce off you, close control isn't great when dribbling etc. Thats what Nunez was 18 months ago.

 

Right now Nunez is playing about as good as his all round game will get in my opinion. He's improved ALOT and his touch, control, awareness, runs, pressing are visibly improved. Is there another level to come from him in his all round game? I don't think so.

 

He's never going to be cute enough in the half spaces like you say. He just doesn't have the awareness and natural ability. We miss a prime Firmino for sure but no two players are the same. Nunez is a striker, lots of them don't have that to their game either.

 

I'm not his biggest fan, far from it, I've slated him on this thread before. But only a hater or wanaberighter would say he's still shit. He's not shit and has made huge strides and improvements. It's so visible. That doesn't make him a Liverpool level player though. I'm just saying, he's definitely better now then when he arrived.

 

But will he ever be good enough to make us fight for the league every season or win us a champions league? In my opinion no. But I hope I'm wrong. 

 

He misses too many sitters, and that's ok when you win but we need points consistently. His miss against Luton cost us 2 points. Today he had chances and it could have cost us again.

 

People on here are saying "but everyone misses chances, Salah, Aguero, Ronaldo, Haaland...they all miss" and that's true. But do they all miss easy chances consistently as much as Nunez? No, they don't. 

 

I just don't see him being ruthless and clinical for 3 or 4 seasons in a row, which is what we need to fight for the title every year.

 

But this season is different, City aren't the same, Arsenal aren't City, Spurs/Villa/Newcastle can take points off anyone.  Everyone is going to drop points. We have a chance, Nunez just needs to hit a purple patch for 6/8 weeks in the crunch part of the run in and we might just nick it.

 

We should stick by him this season. His pace and presence causes mayhem and it's about as good as we are going to get this year. It causes enough problems to create some chances. Our attack isn't fluid at all.

 

That's a good post. I don't agree with your conclusion, but that's ok. I'm one of those who says they all miss and they do. Nunez has been getting slated on here for misses since about 5 minutes into his 1st preseason game. And it's the joy some of our fans do it with, it's genuinely embarrassing. The abuse he got for that Luton chance you talk about was unreal, Salah missed the same chance today, barely a peep. Salah set that chance up at Luton with a header on goal so bad, it ended up a chance for Darwin. They all miss. Darwin misses more than the very best, absolutely no doubt about it. But as I keep saying, you don't need to have world class in every position. You need players who can contribute to the team, help find ways to help us win games. And what happened yesterday with the midfield weighing in is something we have never really had in all klopps time. We're building a new team and they all need to find a way to make their mark. I think Nunez has shown the application that we can believe he will keep improving. But equally, I'm quite relaxed about the level he's at at the moment - he's an important member of our team right now.

[El Rojo]

You walk onto the pitch with hair like that, you’d want to be scoring.

 

Jurgen should make him get a short back and sides.

[niallers]

If a player isn't scoring, then he needs to be contributing elsewhere. He's massively involved in the 3rd and 4th but i never realised, as the replays were still being shown, that it was Darwin that won the ball back from Fulhams kick off after the 3rd. He slid in and our centre backs got it.

We all want him to succeed but he needs to start converting more of his chances. Hopefully he will.

 

[TD_LFC]

We're still doing the 'well this player missed an nobody said anything' excuse devoid of any context or acknowledgement of frequency then, ace.

 

For the record while Salah absolutely should have scored yesterday his attempt was from further out and from a wider angle, but you still wouldn't be able to put put a compilation of misses (not saved shots' misses and mis-kicks) from his entire time here that contained as many as Nunez has this season let alone in the last 18 months.

 

It's OK to have an incredibly wasteful number 9 who does some things well some of the time isn't a defence I'd expected for a player at Liverpool who's expected to be a starter leading the line in a title challenging side.

 

Huge down play on all the he's world class at x, y and z proclamations we've seen in the past and putting it down to luck is a massive cop out.

 

 

[dave u]

Some of the takes on this thread are not going to age well, and they're not going to be any of mine. Looking forward to revisiting this when he's racking up trophies and Golden Boots.

[Rushies tash]

He's still trying to twat everything. When he realises you can pass the ball into the net, he'll be fine.

[dave u]

Lots of baldies and old fellas hating on him because he's got a full head of hair and isn't afraid to experiment with it. 

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Experiment? That was a fucking human centipede of a barnet!

[Creator Supreme]

3 hours ago, dave u said:

Some of the takes on this thread are not going to age well, and they're not going to be any of mine. Looking forward to revisiting this when he's racking up trophies and Golden Boots.

He's got more chance of knitting fucking fog!

[Pidge]

18 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

I think you're downplaying how big of a success we need him to be. He's going to be the guy who will need to pick up Salah's slack. When you sign a player who portends to be as dangerous as he does, you expect that to eventually turn that into big production. That is what we eventually need to see, there's no doubt about it.

 

This season, he's part of this group of 4 + Salah up front and there's been some collective success because we can throw waves of forwards at people. Can we keep those 5 fit enough times to give us a chance at the title, maybe. I doubt it, but maybe.

 

But when we will have to rely on him individually to come up with big moments, he will have to do it. Pretty much that simple.

 

And I have a similar gripe with Diaz, by the way; He is talented enough that he should be a far better player, but he simply isn't. And it's fine when he is 1 player out of 5, but there is little evidence we can count on him to consistently start matches and produce.

I agree on both count to some extent. Both need to improve, but the whole team will have to adapt to Salah leaving one day and the style of play will probably change quite significantly as well. 

 

Both are happy to put in the hard work for the team, which is probably the one of the main things we'll need when the team has to adapt. We'll be all right, but we do need a consistent, reliable plan to emerge at some point.

[clangers]

He needs to be moved on, mainly because of the hair. Completely unacceptable bonnet.

[bossy]

I’m very disappointed at his hair do choice. Worse than missing a sitter that, much worse.

[johnsusername]

I thought he played well. Good link up play. I much prefer him in the middle than stuck out on the left.

 

I didn't think his misses were that bad? They weren't open goals.

[aws]

19 minutes ago, johnsusername said:

I thought he played well. Good link up play. I much prefer him in the middle than stuck out on the left.

 

I didn't think his misses were that bad? They weren't open goals.

He was the best of our front three but that isn’t saying much. They all fluffed good chances.

[Reckoner]

All the lads on TLW will be walking round with hair like Nunez in a few months. It’ll catch on and they’ll all be sorry they doubted him.

[Turkish Delight]

15 hours ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

Genuinely don't understand how people haven't understood by now that finishing is about 80% pure luck.

I mean, granted, every now and again there's a player like Messi who consistently finishes way above their expected goals numbers over the long-term, but those are actually much rarer than you'd think. The truth is that you'd FAR rather have a striker who's "getting into position to miss them" than one who scores every chance but doesn't get that many, because as soon as the finishing fairy gets done with the latter player he turns out to be just Michu or Chamakh or whatever.

 

Even Suarez his first season and a half with us fell victim to this. Hit the post a million times, very patchy finishing. Then he went on to be one of the best strikers in world football for 7 years!

 

Not worried about Nunez. He's scoring or assisting about every 100 minutes even now, and when his finishing returns to the mean he'll be scoring 30/season for us.

 

Agree with all that bar the first sentence.

 

Nunez hasn't been unlucky to keep missing sitters. He's missed them through a combination of poor technique and a desire to leather a ball when it can just be passed in the net.

[Lee909]

Good finishing isn't luck at all. It's what separates the truly world class strikers from the rest. Everyone will miss the odd sitter but the truly quality strikers keep scoring goals. 

 

 

Nunez missed two big chances against Fulham, adding to the one he missed the week before away at Manchester City, while also striking the woodwork for a fifth time in the Premier League - three more times than any other player in the competition.

 

Delving deeper into the South American's underlying numbers, his profligacy becomes even more evident.

 

Nunez has the sixth highest xG (expected goals) of any player in the Premier League this season so far, the striker expected to have scored 8.18 goals from 13 league appearances (via Understat).

That means that there is a discrepancy of +4.18 between Nunez's xG and his actual tally of four goals, the biggest margin of any player in the Premier League this term.

Among the division's least clinical forwards are Manchester United's Rasmus Hojlund (0 goals form an xG of 3.01) and Chelsea's Nicolas Jackson (6 goals from an xG of 8.29).

However, Nunez outperforms both them in terms of wastefulness in front of goal and, despite having the sixth highest xG in the league, ranks below 19 other players when it comes to his total of just four goals.

 

 

 

Nunez has to start putting these chances away. Being a menace isn't enough to lead the line of a team looking for top honours. It's nearly Xmas and he has 4 goals and 4 assists in tbe league. There's big big improvement in many areas but he can't keep spurning chances like he has at Luton,Fulham and hone against Toulouse

[dave u]

Those stats mean absolutely fuck all. He's a toe nail offside away from having one more goal, which changes those numbers, plus he's been inches away with shots that have hit the woodwork. If the shot yesterday is two inches lower it's a goal and those stats suddenly look a whole lot different. 

 

You can make stats tell whatever story you want them to. Ask Ten Hag and his second best keeper in the league.

 

I'll die on this hill, Darwin Nunez is fucking boss.

[TD_LFC]

4 minutes ago, dave u said:

I'll die on this hill

 

If it's Nunez taking the shots you'll be fine.

 

[lebron]

20 hours ago, Mil-ing Around said:

 

Nah mate wasn't aimed at you. I think you make some good posts on here and talk sense. I agree with what your saying. 

 

Yeah raw is unfinished, usually it's your first touch that is raw. Balls bounce off you, close control isn't great when dribbling etc. Thats what Nunez was 18 months ago.

 

Right now Nunez is playing about as good as his all round game will get in my opinion. He's improved ALOT and his touch, control, awareness, runs, pressing are visibly improved. Is there another level to come from him in his all round game? I don't think so.

 

He's never going to be cute enough in the half spaces like you say. He just doesn't have the awareness and natural ability. We miss a prime Firmino for sure but no two players are the same. Nunez is a striker, lots of them don't have that to their game either.

 

I'm not his biggest fan, far from it, I've slated him on this thread before. But only a hater or wanaberighter would say he's still shit. He's not shit and has made huge strides and improvements. It's so visible. That doesn't make him a Liverpool level player though. I'm just saying, he's definitely better now then when he arrived.

 

But will he ever be good enough to make us fight for the league every season or win us a champions league? In my opinion no. But I hope I'm wrong. 

 

He misses too many sitters, and that's ok when you win but we need points consistently. His miss against Luton cost us 2 points. Today he had chances and it could have cost us again.

 

People on here are saying "but everyone misses chances, Salah, Aguero, Ronaldo, Haaland...they all miss" and that's true. But do they all miss easy chances consistently as much as Nunez? No, they don't. 

 

I just don't see him being ruthless and clinical for 3 or 4 seasons in a row, which is what we need to fight for the title every year.

 

But this season is different, City aren't the same, Arsenal aren't City, Spurs/Villa/Newcastle can take points off anyone.  Everyone is going to drop points. We have a chance, Nunez just needs to hit a purple patch for 6/8 weeks in the crunch part of the run in and we might just nick it.

 

We should stick by him this season. His pace and presence causes mayhem and it's about as good as we are going to get this year. It causes enough problems to create some chances. Our attack isn't fluid at all.

 

I don’t think we’re far apart in our views on Nunez then. I just think your last sentence here is the main issue (especially against weaker opposition that tend to play compact, low-block football), and Nunez is a big factor in that. We would have had similar issues if Haaland played for us, but he’s so physically imposing that he would possibly have freed up a bit more space for our other players to take advantage of (pure speculation). I guess it’s the Firmino factor playing into it for me. Hard to go from a player whose biggest qualities were neat touches, interplay and pressing to basically the opposite. I love Nunez for his workrate (even if it should be a given at this level, it isn’t - ask any Utd supporter today about their forwards…), and his movement. His touch might have improved, but that and his ability to get in front of a defender to keep the ball will still have to improve lots for us not to get countered on repeatedly. Salah was even worse for this yesterday, but he’s normally good at it so will get the benefit of the doubt from most supporters.

 

I wholeheartedly disagree with those saying finishing is mostly down to luck and not technique/ability though. That’s doing an huge disservice to those possessing that particular skill. We’ve not been blessed with too many of them lately, which might influence the opinion of our fans perhaps. With some players (Gerrard, Barnes for us, Henry, De Bruyne for our rivals) you just know they won’t miss from 10-18 yards out. They’re experts at creating angles as well as having the required technique to strike the ball properly.

 

Anyway, I think most on here and in the ground really take to Nunez, which can only help him in terms of confidence and self-belief.

[Baltar]

Rubbish finisher but I'm definitely keeping him. As long as he's helping the team to create goals and win matches, I can live with him missing chances my nan would bury.

[Arniepie]

34 minutes ago, dave u said:

Those stats mean absolutely fuck all. He's a toe nail offside away from having one more goal, which changes those numbers, plus he's been inches away with shots that have hit the woodwork. If the shot yesterday is two inches lower it's a goal and those stats suddenly look a whole lot different. 

 

You can make stats tell whatever story you want them to. Ask Ten Hag and his second best keeper in the league.

 

I'll die on this hill, Darwin Nunez is fucking boss.

1st time I saw him in the flesh was against villa and took to him straight away.

He is boss.