F.A.O Forum bellends

[billybonzo]

Rafa Benitez leaves Liverpool as a legend so could critics please stop rewriting history?

 

Right to the end the professional pundits failed to understand why so many Liverpudlians stayed loyal to Rafa Benitez.

 

As 500 fans marched on Anfield after his departure, chanting the Spaniard’s name, heads shook at a footballing sub-species bracketed somewhere between romantic die-hards and mawkish morons.

 

To the “expert” eye, these deluded fools had been conned by Benitez’s cunning and blinded to his failings by the glory of Istanbul and the criminal incompetence of the American owners.

 

Liverpool fans they said, once among the most knowledgeable in the world, had clearly lost touch with the modern reality, and were now a sad throwback to the days when sideburned men kicked orange balls.

 

Well, I’d argue one of the saddest aspects of modern football is too many pundits, including ex-players, have not paid to watch a game since those orange ball days. And they’ve lost touch with the fan.

 

I’m not saying Benitez had to stay. The results and the football last year were shocking, he’s been a major player in Anfield’s destructive civil war, and the number of fans disillusioned with his style and methods was growing.

 

But to paint his six-year reign as an unmitigated disaster, sustained only by the over-sentimentalising of Istanbul, is analysis at its most skewed and cringeful. By 2004 Liverpool had been relegated to the status of European also-rans. Benitez made the club a genuine world force again.

 

It wasn’t just that 2005 Champions League win (which is shamelessly downplayed as a fluke despite beating Fabio Capello’s Juventus, Jose Mourinho’s Chelsea and Carlo Ancelotti’s AC Milan). Or reaching the 2007 Champions League final and the 2008 semi-final. It wasn’t even UEFA elevating Liverpool to Europe’s top-seeded club due to results under Benitez.

 

It was beating Real Madrid and Inter Milan at the Bernabeu and San Siro (which the Reds had never before done) and Barcelona at the Nou Camp. Magical victories at the very top of world football, which restored long-overdue respect to Liverpudlian hearts.

 

Ah say the experts, but he didn’t win the league. True. But he got closer than any Liverpool boss in the past 20 years. A season ago he was a whisker away, taking the highest number of points by a runner-up in a 38-game season and the club’s best points haul since 1988.

 

And he did so despite having the 5th highest wage bill in the league, the 5th costliest squad, the 5th biggest stadium capacity and a net annual transfer spend of £15million. Which should have made experts ask why Liverpool were ever considered a nailed-on top four side under Benitez, especially when the boardroom was mired in anarchy.

 

Ah, they say, but he’d long lost the players and the board. So why have Steven Gerrard, Fernando Torres, Daniel Agger, Dirk Kuyt and Pepe Reina signed new long-term contracts within the past year? Why last August did managing director Christian Purslow do interviews purring over Benitez and how he was integral to the club’s future?

 

Ah, the experts say, but that was before he let Xabi Alonso go, which everyone could see was a calamity. These would be the same experts who, for the previous couple of seasons, claimed Liverpool were a two-man team. With Alonso (on whom Benitez turned a £20million profit) never being mentioned as one of those two.

 

Ah, they say, but Torres apart, he only signed sub-standard dross and ended up with a shockingly-weak squad. Really?

 

Liverpool are sending 12 players (13 if you count Milan Jovanovic whose Bosman signing is going through) to the World Cup. Or an entire team: Reina, Carragher, Agger, Skrtel, Johnson, Babel, Gerrard, Mascherano, Rodriguez, Kuyt, Torres. Subs: Kyrgiakos, Jovanovic.

 

Eleven Chelsea players flew out to South Africa, the same number as Arsenal, and Manchester United sent eight. Does that look like he’s left Anfield bare of talent?

 

The truth is Benitez leaves a squad worth many times more than the one he inherited, despite spending less in the past three transfer windows than he’s brought in.

 

I don’t seek to rewrite history or airbrush Benitez’s failings. I saw last year’s football and it stank. I felt the growing anger among players and fans at his bloody-mindedness and knew something had to give.

 

Which is why it may be best for all concerned that he walks on. But now he has, let’s do him the honour of getting his legacy right.

 

Rafa Benitez was many things at Liverpool but unlike every manager since Kenny Dalglish, he was not a failure. Indeed a majority of Liverpudlians will remember him as a legend.

 

Because like Bill Shankly, on more days and nights than those expert pundits ever care to recall, he made the people happy.

[Antynwa]

Good article from Brian that, balanced and not wanting to kick someone when he's down.

 

Although the fact we took that many players to the world cup just shows how much we did underachieve.

[Code]

Thought it was a load of bollocks myself.

 

His point about Alonso was extremly poor.

[billybonzo]

Thought it was a load of bollocks myself.

 

His point about Alonso was extremly poor.

 

As it was aimed at you and one or two others, I'm not suprised you bit.

 

Cheers

[Walton Park]

And the point at the end. He made the people happy? Over 4 fucking years ago and to be fair it was the Captain who made us happy that day coz he won the game on his own.

[Dicko]

And the point at the end. He made the people happy? Over 4 fucking years ago and to be fair it was the Captain who made us happy that day coz he won the game on his own.

 

I'm sorry did we not beat Utd & Chelsea on the way?

[BolshieBastard]

Rafa Benitez leaves Liverpool as a legend so could critics please stop rewriting history?

 

Right to the end the professional pundits failed to understand why so many Liverpudlians stayed loyal to Rafa Benitez.

 

As 500 fans marched on Anfield after his departure, chanting the Spaniard’s name, heads shook at a footballing sub-species bracketed somewhere between romantic die-hards and mawkish morons.

 

To the “expert” eye, these deluded fools had been conned by Benitez’s cunning and blinded to his failings by the glory of Istanbul and the criminal incompetence of the American owners.

 

Liverpool fans they said, once among the most knowledgeable in the world, had clearly lost touch with the modern reality, and were now a sad throwback to the days when sideburned men kicked orange balls.

 

Well, I’d argue one of the saddest aspects of modern football is too many pundits, including ex-players, have not paid to watch a game since those orange ball days. And they’ve lost touch with the fan.

 

I’m not saying Benitez had to stay. The results and the football last year were shocking, he’s been a major player in Anfield’s destructive civil war, and the number of fans disillusioned with his style and methods was growing.

 

But to paint his six-year reign as an unmitigated disaster, sustained only by the over-sentimentalising of Istanbul, is analysis at its most skewed and cringeful. By 2004 Liverpool had been relegated to the status of European also-rans. Benitez made the club a genuine world force again.

 

It wasn’t just that 2005 Champions League win (which is shamelessly downplayed as a fluke despite beating Fabio Capello’s Juventus, Jose Mourinho’s Chelsea and Carlo Ancelotti’s AC Milan). Or reaching the 2007 Champions League final and the 2008 semi-final. It wasn’t even UEFA elevating Liverpool to Europe’s top-seeded club due to results under Benitez.

 

It was beating Real Madrid and Inter Milan at the Bernabeu and San Siro (which the Reds had never before done) and Barcelona at the Nou Camp. Magical victories at the very top of world football, which restored long-overdue respect to Liverpudlian hearts.

 

Ah say the experts, but he didn’t win the league. True. But he got closer than any Liverpool boss in the past 20 years. A season ago he was a whisker away, taking the highest number of points by a runner-up in a 38-game season and the club’s best points haul since 1988.

 

And he did so despite having the 5th highest wage bill in the league, the 5th costliest squad, the 5th biggest stadium capacity and a net annual transfer spend of £15million. Which should have made experts ask why Liverpool were ever considered a nailed-on top four side under Benitez, especially when the boardroom was mired in anarchy.

 

Ah, they say, but he’d long lost the players and the board. So why have Steven Gerrard, Fernando Torres, Daniel Agger, Dirk Kuyt and Pepe Reina signed new long-term contracts within the past year? Why last August did managing director Christian Purslow do interviews purring over Benitez and how he was integral to the club’s future?

 

Ah, the experts say, but that was before he let Xabi Alonso go, which everyone could see was a calamity. These would be the same experts who, for the previous couple of seasons, claimed Liverpool were a two-man team. With Alonso (on whom Benitez turned a £20million profit) never being mentioned as one of those two.

 

Ah, they say, but Torres apart, he only signed sub-standard dross and ended up with a shockingly-weak squad. Really?

 

Liverpool are sending 12 players (13 if you count Milan Jovanovic whose Bosman signing is going through) to the World Cup. Or an entire team: Reina, Carragher, Agger, Skrtel, Johnson, Babel, Gerrard, Mascherano, Rodriguez, Kuyt, Torres. Subs: Kyrgiakos, Jovanovic.

 

Eleven Chelsea players flew out to South Africa, the same number as Arsenal, and Manchester United sent eight. Does that look like he’s left Anfield bare of talent?

 

The truth is Benitez leaves a squad worth many times more than the one he inherited, despite spending less in the past three transfer windows than he’s brought in.

 

I don’t seek to rewrite history or airbrush Benitez’s failings. I saw last year’s football and it stank. I felt the growing anger among players and fans at his bloody-mindedness and knew something had to give.

 

Which is why it may be best for all concerned that he walks on. But now he has, let’s do him the honour of getting his legacy right.

 

Rafa Benitez was many things at Liverpool but unlike every manager since Kenny Dalglish, he was not a failure. Indeed a majority of Liverpudlians will remember him as a legend.

 

Because like Bill Shankly, on more days and nights than those expert pundits ever care to recall, he made the people happy.

 

You can add Read to the list together with tomkins about who's still crying over benitez's departure.

 

Who's the forum bellends? Those still wringing their hands that the manager has gone.

[johnnyboy]

And the point at the end. He made the people happy? Over 4 fucking years ago and to be fair it was the Captain who made us happy that day coz he won the game on his own.

 

so you didnt laugh out loud when Dossena lofted that ball over van der Sar's head?

[danperkins]

Not a balanced of fair article in any way,shape or form. Nothing more than a bitter pro-rafa supporters trying to have a few sly digs at Rafa's critics. His tenure wasn't a disaster, but he certainly does not leave a legend, for people to even consider putting him in the Bracket of Paisley/Shanks etc is nothing short of insulting.

 

Rafa is gone, he had a calamitous last season and we probably as yet, haven't felt the extent of the knock effects of that, that so many strange,bizarre incompromhendable managerial decisions, complete lack of any sort of urgency, uestionable man management skills, horrific transfer especially over past 2 years and all this culminating in a manager, ultiminately not doing the job his job properly. Its not a witch hunt or conspiracy why so many people (pundits,press,media, explayers etc) were criticising him, its not a coincidence some Pro-Rafa fans think this is a mass witch hunt or something, get a grip FFS.

 

Any other manager, at any other top team that was performing like Rafa did would have been sacked 6 months ago. This is not Rafa F.C. , this is Liverpool F.C. , thanks for Istanbul & The FA Cup( To be honest Stevie G won those for us) , you tried your best Rafa but in the end it just wasn't good enough, best of luck elsewhere but you werent the man for the job.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

And the point at the end. He made the people happy? Over 4 fucking years ago and to be fair it was the Captain who made us happy that day coz he won the game on his own.

Which one game are you referring to? In the last 6 years I'm struggling to even think of one major game that Gerrard did win "on his own".

 

That is a good article - fair and well-informed as ever from Brian Reade. No need to give this thread such a stupidly provocative title, though. (Although it speaks volumes for my self-esteem that I was drawn to it!)

[danperkins]

Which one game are you referring to? In the last 6 years I'm struggling to even thing of a major game that Gerrard did win "on his own".

 

That is a good article - fair and well-informed as ever from Brian Reads. No need to give this thread such a stupidly provocative title, though. (Although it speaks volumes for my self-esteem that I was drawn to it!)

Are u serious? Em, try teh Champs League Final & The FA Cup final aswell as dozens of other important games, thats a poor comment mate seriously!

[Walton Park]

I'm sorry did we not beat Utd & Chelsea on the way?

 

Oh great them 2 great games in the 4 years after we won the cup.

 

Shall we release them games on DVD like Everton do if that made you that happy.

Fucking sad. Get a fucking grip.

 

I personally judge success by lifting trophies, not getting 3 points at Old Trafford. Man U won the league that season so what a load of bollocks.

 

FACT

[Marko121]

Too many people have very short memories. Let's see how they feel with a yes man in charge next season. Yes Rafa did have faults but there are at least 3 people who should have gone way before him.

[BolshieBastard]

Not a balanced of fair article in any way,shape or form. Nothing more than a bitter pro-rafa supporters trying to have a few sly digs at Rafa's critics. His tenure wasn't a disaster, but he certainly does not leave a legend, for people to even consider putting him in the Bracket of Paisley/Shanks etc is nothing short of insulting.

 

Rafa is gone, he had a calamitous last season and we probably as yet, haven't felt the extent of the knock effects of that, that so many strange,bizarre incompromhendable managerial decisions, complete lack of any sort of urgency, uestionable man management skills, horrific transfer especially over past 2 years and all this culminating in a manager, ultiminately not doing the job his job properly. Its not a witch hunt or conspiracy why so many people (pundits,press,media, explayers etc) were criticising him, its not a coincidence some Pro-Rafa fans think this is a mass witch hunt or something, get a grip FFS.

 

Any other manager, at any other top team that was performing like Rafa did would have been sacked 6 months ago. This is not Rafa F.C. , this is Liverpool F.C. , thanks for Istanbul & The FA Cup( To be honest Stevie G won those for us) , you tried your best Rafa but in the end it just wasn't good enough, best of luck elsewhere but you werent the man for the job.

 

This!

 

Excellent rebuttal of Read's article.

[torahboy]

Excellent article. Makes its criticisms but puts a lot of things into perspective. And when he makes the point about the players at the World Cup it becomes morre apparent that some of these same players were also culpable for the misery of last season.

 

Should be alright next season, though. Rafa's gone and our next manager will be a great success - whoever he might be.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Are u serious? Em, try teh Champs League Final & The FA Cup final aswell as dozens of other important games, thats a poor comment mate seriously!

"On his own"??????

 

Silly person.

[Dicko]

Not a balanced of fair article in any way,shape or form. Nothing more than a bitter pro-rafa supporters trying to have a few sly digs at Rafa's critics. His tenure wasn't a disaster, but he certainly does not leave a legend, for people to even consider putting him in the Bracket of Paisley/Shanks etc is nothing short of insulting.

 

Rafa is gone, he had a calamitous last season and we probably as yet, haven't felt the extent of the knock effects of that, that so many strange,bizarre incompromhendable managerial decisions, complete lack of any sort of urgency, uestionable man management skills, horrific transfer especially over past 2 years and all this culminating in a manager, ultiminately not doing the job his job properly. Its not a witch hunt or conspiracy why so many people (pundits,press,media, explayers etc) were criticising him, its not a coincidence some Pro-Rafa fans think this is a mass witch hunt or something, get a grip FFS.

 

Any other manager, at any other top team that was performing like Rafa did would have been sacked 6 months ago. This is not Rafa F.C. , this is Liverpool F.C. , thanks for Istanbul & The FA Cup( To be honest Stevie G won those for us) , you tried your best Rafa but in the end it just wasn't good enough, best of luck elsewhere but you werent the man for the job.

 

He won the European Cup.

[danperkins]

"On his own"??????

 

Silly person.

Steven Gerrard has literally dragged us by th scruff of the neck in so many games, to deny that is pure ignorance mate ( no disrespect) , the Champs League Final and The FA Cup Final are prefect examples of Steven Gerrard doing this.

[danperkins]

He won the European Cup.

So did Djimi traore, is he a LFC Legend? Next!!!!!!

[Dicko]

Oh great them 2 great games in the 4 years after we won the cup.

 

Shall we release them games on DVD like Everton do if that made you that happy.

Fucking sad. Get a fucking grip.

 

I personally judge success by lifting trophies, not getting 3 points at Old Trafford. Man U won the league that season so what a load of bollocks.

 

FACT

How is any of what you said relevant to taking credit away from Rafa for winning the FA Cup?

[danperkins]

How is any of what you said relevant to taking credit away from Rafa for winning the FA Cup?

Did Rafa win this on his own?

[goatboy59]

Define "bellend".

 

Is it someone who wanted Rafa to stay, pouring praise on someone who says "I’m not saying Benitez had to stay. The results and the football last year were shocking, he’s been a major player in Anfield’s destructive civil war, and the number of fans disillusioned with his style and methods was growing"?

[Dicko]

Steven Gerrard has literally dragged us by th scruff of the neck in so many games, to deny that is pure ignorance mate ( no disrespect) , the Champs League Final and The FA Cup Final are prefect examples of Steven Gerrard doing this.

 

Fuck off. Didi Hamman is the biggest fucking reason we won in Istanbul, not Gerrard.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Steven Gerrard has literally dragged us by th scruff of the neck in so many games, to deny that is pure ignorance mate ( no disrespect) , the Champs League Final and The FA Cup Final are prefect examples of Steven Gerrard doing this.

So, Smicer, Alonso, Carra, Didi, Jerzy, etc were spectators in Istanbul? Just like Momo in Cardiff?

 

And are these really the only two matches you have enjoyed in the last 6 years?

 

 

 

(I'm off to do something else now, so you can have the last word - make it a good'un.)

[RobbieOR]

Did Rafa win this on his own?

 

No he didn't. But any manager that wins the European cup especially the way we won it and the length of time we went without winning it qualifies him to be a legend.