Klopp: This season is not a true reflection of who we are

[TheHowieLama]

5 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

At his best, Mané was finishing top 5 for the Ballon d'Or. He finished 2nd for that last year. That is a player you expect huge things from when you buy him. 

 

Sane is and was never that calibre. He was a very good attacker with potential to be great but he never got there. 

Yeah, he was good at AFCON - which is the sole reason he ended up in the voting where he did - and the few months after. That is what we have said. The 12 months before that he was not.

I don't remember him crashing the top 5 much, maybe the season Van Dijk was 2nd?

 

Anywho, Sane played today and had a huge impact. Mane did not. 

The discussion was about how the German media react to transfers. Or, maybe it was about how Mane has been less than hoped for - either way it does not reflect well on Sadio.

 

In terms of value which player holds theirs at this point? Which player do you think will be contributing next season?

 

Remember I came on this thread supporting Mane and understand why he has got the cold shoulder from the German media/fans.

[VladimirIlyich]

3 hours ago, Scott_M said:

You’ve more or less said what my mate has been saying to me this afternoon! 
 

I agree Tsmiskas should have played more this season and similarly think Thiago is a great player as well. 
 

I just feel that culling so many in window will cause more issues. I think players like Mo, TAA, Fabinho, Robbo and VVD have earned themselves a second chance.
 

They have been amongst the best players in the world in their respective positions in the last few seasons. I’d be willing to let them prove themselves again. 
 

I don’t think Klopp is blameless this season. We’ll never know the full story about Tchouameni / Nunez or Gakpo over a midfielder in January. I’ve intentionally steered away from that topic. There have been a lot of good thoughtful posts in here and if it comes to signings / not signings it’ll just go down the same boring, well trodden path. 

I was happier September / October time when we were trying different things. We seem to have just reverted back to 4-3-3 again now so matter what the outcome.
 

I suppose yesterday was more of a 4-2-3-1 and it worked in the first half but the lack of belief from KDB’s goal was startling.

 

Ultimately though, nothing seems to be improving. Every step forward is met with a larger step backwards. 

 

It does feel we’re at the cross roads we’ve been at before with Benitez, Houllier & Rodgers and I get the pessimism over what could happen next.
 

IMO, Klopp is a level or two above those coaches and has credit in the bank for next season, as do certain players. I hope fresh legs makes Klopps message fresh again and the enthusiasm rubs off the more senior players. 
 

I genuinely think the lack of summer break and range of emotions we went though last season can’t be underestimated, especially as we finished the last 2 weeks on a low. 
 

Undoubtably, it’s going to be very expensive and serious test of Klopp’s ability. Some big decisions due in the summer and very little margin for error. 
 

Appreciate and understand why some might feel differently. 

Thiago is like that expensive car you have to keep in the garage for most of the year because when you do it has to be perfect weather because the body is rusted and the roof has holes in it. One run around the block and its fucked for 12 months.

[A_S]

A proper off-season break and no European football next season might not be the worst situation for the team, as things stand. 

 

The midfield needs a clean out, similar to what the attacking group experienced. Divock, Taki, Sadio and Bobby gone in a 12-month period. 

 

Keita and Ox are gone. Can the squad afford all of Hendo, Milner and Thiago to play limited roles next season? It should be pretty clear that none of them can be relied on to play week in, week out.

[Razoray]

I've seen it mentioned here that Ferguson was great for bombing out top players like Veron, Stam, Beckham etc. when at their peak, to keep players on their toes and United at the top. Those players were sold in the early 2000s in Fergusons leanest period. The 99-01 team that won 3 PLs and the CL was broken up and they won 1 PL in the next 5 years, after Stam was sold. They won a couple of cups in the 3 years after Beckham was sold. But they won 3 PLs and a CL from 07-09 when the players bought to replace them (Rooney, Ferdinand, Ronaldo) peaked. Shankly started replacing the 60s side after a cup defeat in January 1970. He won nothing for 3 years after that. 

 

One poor season in 8 (relative to where we were in Oct 2015) is allowed IMO. 

Posters are looking for Jurgen to get rid of half the squad this summer. It won't happen, but a few players will come in to replace the lack of energy and it will be an evolution over the next 2/3 years to replace the 18-22 team. It has started already. The forwards are already in. 13 managers have left their posts in the PL already this season. The game has become so knee-jerk that our best manager since the 80s is to be sacked for a poor season. Howie has said that Klopp has never built a 2nd great team. In my opinion he has built 3, albeit at 3 dfferent clubs. The key word though, is built. It looks as if there is too much work to do this summer, to turn around the squad and achieve a 90 odd points league season and compete for CLs , but I think the man deserves the opportunity to start the rebuild of his 4th great team. He more or less said that it's why he signed the extension to his contract. 

I'd expect that anyone hoping or expecting it to be turned around in one summer will be disappointed, but what I want to see are signs of improvement and a plan, like we saw in 2016-18. 

[stringvest]

I think Klopp is in the same (relative) position as Brendan Rodgers was until the weekend.  Over achieving players no longer listening.  

[Scott_M]

I hope a few players have had a go at him as well…

 

[No2]

If you done up an all time XI in June there would be shouts for 4 or 5 of these lads to be included. They are destroying their own legacy here, that number could only seriously considered to be 1 right now, Alisson. 

 

1 player who maybe wasn't in it last year has cemented his place, Manè was the heart of this team, everything we where Sadio was. He was never what we are now*

 

 

 

 

 

*empty stadiums isn't football.

[stringvest]

40 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

I hope a few players have had a go at him as well…

 

 

yadda yadda yadda.  Fuck off.

[No2]

2 minutes ago, stringvest said:

 

yadda yadda yadda.  Fuck off.

I seen Luke Shaw on MotD yesterday waffling the same shit I've heard him waffle 50 times before. We're fast becoming Luke Shaw.  

[Pete]

2 minutes ago, No2 said:

I seen Luke Shaw on MotD yesterday waffling the same shit I've heard him waffle 50 times before. We're fast becoming Luke Shaw.  

Fat and incredibly overrated?

[Scott_M]

9 minutes ago, Pete said:

Fat and incredibly overrated?

We’ve definitely become fat and less hungry off our success. 

[Carra_is_legend]

26 minutes ago, stringvest said:

 

yadda yadda yadda.  Fuck off.

Yup. Heard enough of this nonsense now. Disappointed, have to keep going, regroup.....bollocks time and time again. Van Dijk has been a key culprit this season so stop this fucking nonsense and start running a bit more.

[Scott_M]

35 minutes ago, stringvest said:

 

yadda yadda yadda.  Fuck off.

It does feel like we’ve heard this multiple times before now. 

[Mook]

I know they are contractually obligated to give all these interviews but it would be good if they could swerve them when we're losing every game.

 

Never thought I would say this but I could do without hearing from Klopp at the moment. He should be busy booting doors off their handles & scaring a bunch of millionaires into remembering who they are playing for.

[stringvest]

28 minutes ago, Mook said:

I know they are contractually obligated to give all these interviews but it would be good if they could swerve them when we're losing every game.

 

Never thought I would say this but I could do without hearing from Klopp at the moment. He should be busy booting doors off their handles & scaring a bunch of millionaires into remembering who they are playing for.

 

I know.  I said this about Robertson's interview before the weekend.  They can say what they want but nothing changes, so they must know this is annoying to the average fan.  

[bizzle10]

11 hours ago, A_S said:

A proper off-season break and no European football next season might not be the worst situation for the team, as things stand. 

 

The midfield needs a clean out, similar to what the attacking group experienced. Divock, Taki, Sadio and Bobby gone in a 12-month period. 

 

Keita and Ox are gone. Can the squad afford all of Hendo, Milner and Thiago to play limited roles next season? It should be pretty clear that none of them can be relied on to play week in, week out.

No European football could be a blessing in disguise I know what it means for the club but revamp in the summer and concentrate on the league

[stringvest]

4 hours ago, Razoray said:

I've seen it mentioned here that Ferguson was great for bombing out top players like Veron, Stam, Beckham etc. when at their peak, to keep players on their toes and United at the top. Those players were sold in the early 2000s in Fergusons leanest period. The 99-01 team that won 3 PLs and the CL was broken up and they won 1 PL in the next 5 years, after Stam was sold. They won a couple of cups in the 3 years after Beckham was sold. But they won 3 PLs and a CL from 07-09 when the players bought to replace them (Rooney, Ferdinand, Ronaldo) peaked. Shankly started replacing the 60s side after a cup defeat in January 1970. He won nothing for 3 years after that. 

 

One poor season in 8 (relative to where we were in Oct 2015) is allowed IMO. 

Posters are looking for Jurgen to get rid of half the squad this summer. It won't happen, but a few players will come in to replace the lack of energy and it will be an evolution over the next 2/3 years to replace the 18-22 team. It has started already. The forwards are already in. 13 managers have left their posts in the PL already this season. The game has become so knee-jerk that our best manager since the 80s is to be sacked for a poor season. Howie has said that Klopp has never built a 2nd great team. In my opinion he has built 3, albeit at 3 dfferent clubs. The key word though, is built. It looks as if there is too much work to do this summer, to turn around the squad and achieve a 90 odd points league season and compete for CLs , but I think the man deserves the opportunity to start the rebuild of his 4th great team. He more or less said that it's why he signed the extension to his contract. 

I'd expect that anyone hoping or expecting it to be turned around in one summer will be disappointed, but what I want to see are signs of improvement and a plan, like we saw in 2016-18. 

 

No-one is asking for Klopp to be sacked; the question is what is the best approach to change?  No two players are alike, they'll all have different motivations, all have different context, but I think that when players stop listening to the manager it's because they've lost faith in them.  

 

So you can either try and rebuild that faith, or you can ship those players out and replace them with players who are ready to listen and take on board the manager's ideas.  The first option is highly risky in that it's very difficult - in many cases impossible - to achieve, and the second one requires a significant amount of disruption which in itself brings risk.

[stringvest]

1 minute ago, stringvest said:

 

No-one is asking for Klopp to be sacked; the question is what is the best approach to change?  No two players are alike, they'll all have different motivations, all have different context, but I think that when players stop listening to the manager it's because they've lost faith in them.  

 

So you can either try and rebuild that faith, or you can ship those players out and replace them with players who are ready to listen and take on board the manager's ideas.  The first option is highly risky in that it's very difficult - in many cases impossible - to achieve, and the second one requires a significant amount of disruption which in itself brings risk.

 

I forgot, the third option is that the manager deliberately picks a fight with the exec to try to get the sack.  I'm not sure Klopp is the type to do this though.

[Barrington Womble]

14 minutes ago, stringvest said:

 

No-one is asking for Klopp to be sacked; the question is what is the best approach to change?  No two players are alike, they'll all have different motivations, all have different context, but I think that when players stop listening to the manager it's because they've lost faith in them.  

 

So you can either try and rebuild that faith, or you can ship those players out and replace them with players who are ready to listen and take on board the manager's ideas.  The first option is highly risky in that it's very difficult - in many cases impossible - to achieve, and the second one requires a significant amount of disruption which in itself brings risk.

I think we just have a a significant number of players who were less motivated than before combined with an unreasonable number of issues. If money was no option, you'd want to see at least 5 players come in who are capable of going right in the team. 

[No2]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Fat and incredibly overrated?

No, capable of big performances followed by shite followed by usual clichés after another defeat followed by another good performance and two fingers to all the doubters because we're back baby followed by another tepid defeat to some nomarks, all done without considering for one second that the interviewee himself could be part of the problem because he doesn't work hard enough anymore.

 

I was watching the golf the other night and one of the commentary tean cracked a joke about a player practicing his swing in the mirror in his hotel room, the response was if he wasn't doing it then he would lose to the guy in the other room who is doing it.

[Code]

16 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

At his best, Mané was finishing top 5 for the Ballon d'Or. He finished 2nd for that last year. That is a player you expect huge things from when you buy him. 

 

Sane is and was never that calibre. He was a very good attacker with potential to be great but he never got there. 

Mane was never that calibre either.

10, 11, 13, 10, 22, 18, 11, 16, 6 is his record in the league since the 14/15 season when he signed for Southampton.

 

 

[stringvest]

1 hour ago, Code said:

Mane was never that calibre either.

10, 11, 13, 10, 22, 18, 11, 16, 6 is his record in the league since the 14/15 season when he signed for Southampton.

 

 

Mane’s contribution to the team was far greater than any stats would suggest.  His work rate was second to none - he would press, tackle, intercept, and he got Robertson out of trouble on countless occasions.  Unless Diaz and or Nunez can add those dimensions to their game, then we’re going to be struggling 

[Daisy]

Mane was everything for us. Hard as fuck aggressive cunt

[TheHowieLama]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

Mane was everything for us. Hard as fuck aggressive cunt

With a smile on his face.

[LFC 6 Times]

Mane was nothing short of sensational for us. A sublime player, with fantastic work ethic, winning mentality and fitness record. The best LW we’ve had since Barnes and a true Liverpool great.