Carra on Talksport at 10am

[Liverpool lad]

Seems a lot of people have heard part of it and filled the blanks in themselves

[Stu Monty]

To be honest if the reddest of Reds Brian Reade thinks there's a case for foreign limitations, I can only think of one reason why Carragher is getting it in the neck for virtually the same view.

 

I think that's a really cheap shot, and also isn't even correct. Carragher isn't getting in the neck for saying what Reade did; nobody has even mentioned anything about the Engand manager.

 

Carragher's views that are being challenged are about foreign kids in the academy, something Reade's article doesn't relate to.

 

Poor form, that.

[sir roger]

Gerrard Owen Carragher McManamann Fowler to name just a few.

 

Plus 3 finals in 4 years says different. Rafa never appointed Dalglish, although you probably wont believe that.

 

I blame Rafa and Houllier because they never done what was best for the club. I'll reserve judgement on the two spanish coaches myself.

 

I'd be surprised if you didn't blame Benitez.

[Guest alantkayll]

I can see the general point that Jamie is making, and I don't necessarily think he's getting at the foreign players we have now. I agree with Dave in that he's talking more about a general change in rules.

 

The point to me is having the best, be they English, French, Spanish or whatever. We've brought in a lot of crap foreign players over the past decade, no doubts about it. But what local talent has that been at the expense of? Rooney is the only one you could say, and there was never a chance he'd have signed for Liverpool anyway. Who else? Rodwell? Don't see the reason for all the hype to be honest. Baxter? Hibbert? Osman? No ta. There has been a massive drop in local talent since the emergence of the likes of McManaman, Fowler, Owen, Carra, Gerrard and Rooney.

 

The fact is it's a different game today to when Carra and his generation played youth football. It's an international game now and signing foreign youngsters is part and parcel and probably always will be. As other posters have pointed out, the best thing our club has done at youth level since Gerrard broke on to the scene was the overhaul instigated by Rafa which brought in the cream of youth coaching in Borrell and Segura from La Macia Barcelona, and dragged our academy system in to the 21st century. After the baron spell of the past decade, we now look like we have a whole flood of players who could break through in to the first team in the next few years, including quite a few local and English lads. Quality is quality, no matter were you come from.

 

Scott Dann was not spotted either.

[Guest alantkayll]

We talk about kids coming through the Academy, but whilst we DID NOT have any scouts in the UK for years its not that much of a shock.

[Gym Beglin]

I agree with Jamie about youngsters having a problem breaking through.

Step aside then Jamie.

 

I agree with Jamie about international set-ups, it should always be 100% homegrown in the entire set-up.

 

I agree with Jamie about youth set-ups, keep it local and if there's not enough talent coming through then it's a warning sign that something isn't working at grassroots locally. You can't just ignore it and import kids. Every young player is a blank canvass, the problem are the ones who fuck them up.

 

But what I don't like is the 'Kenny will decide when I retire', line. I respect and understand his passion to keep on playing, but there has to be a degree of self- awareness and honesty in there. Scholes bowed out when he knew he couldn't maintain his excellent standards, and I'd like Carraghers winding down to be something he takes ownership of, not Kenny.

[TheHitman]

If you are going to point the finger at anyone blame the system, the FA. The majority of people in football up until a couple of years ago laughed at the thought of ex footballers needing qualifications to be competent.

 

The thinking was, if you played that qualified you as some sort of guru and you would somehow pass this knowledge on.

 

In Holland you can't even get a near a under 13's team without undertaking qualifications, such is the respect they have for coaching.

 

Fair play to Carragher, he has shown a genuine passion for going down this route and you get the feeling he appreciates this side of it. Ironically he was really keen to work with Capello to see what he could learn, so he understands there is a lot to learn.

 

There was a comment, he mentioned a few years back, he said he watches lots of games across the globe. Apparently Rafa always used to say to him, are you watching or analysing the game. So you get the feeling he has been doing a lot of analysing over the past few years. There is no doubt he is more prepared, than a lot of players at this stage of his career.

 

As for overseas players, again, the system has failed, clubs who want to win things just are not in a position to play inexperienced players. It must be said fans have little patience with these players either.

 

There has to be more competitive games for young players to play in. Ultimately a lot have been failed by this lack of a place to play. Would most of the British lads like Raven and Mellor and Hamill etc be content with sitting on the bench and getting a few minutes here and there, or did they want to go elsewhere and see if they could make it. I would say mostly the latter.

 

As much as people say we could have used x,y,z of local lads in games on the bench they would have learned fuck all, by being on the bench. You improve by playing and we have let down the local players and overseas players by ultimately trying to hoard players. It is fair to say the between say 2000- 2009 it has not exactly been a glorious time for British talent across the premier league.

 

Maybe things are on the up but in my view it is a lazy rationale to blame the "foreigners".

[Strontium]

You've got a cheek questioning anyone's politics, regarldess of who they may vote for.

 

 

Sorry, I don't follow. I'm not sure you even understand what point you're trying to make yourself.

[Antynwa]

So what people are saying is...

 

Is that Jamie Carragher is a racist xenophobe?

 

Seems reasonable.

.

[Hand Shandy]

It maybe they're saying he should think a bit more about what he's saying if he doesn't want to SOUND like a racist xenophobe.

[Antynwa]

It maybe they're saying he should think a bit more about what he's saying if he doesn't want to SOUND like a racist xenophobe.

 

What he's said isn't racist or xenophobic though.

 

So it's a moot point.

[Stu Monty]

So what people are saying is...

 

Is that Jamie Carragher is a racist xenophobe?

 

Seems reasonable.

.

 

Who's saying that then?

 

Why do you insist on trying to boil down a debate with plenty of shades of grey into your simple little black and white point? It's annoying.

 

Respond to the actual posts people are making instead of setting up some straw man of people claiming Carra to have a white pointy hat and then saying that they are wrong.

[Magic Sponge]

My eyes. My eyes.

[goatboy59]

Who's saying that then?

 

 

You're right.

 

They're just saying he sounds like one. Completely different.

 

"You sound like a Nazi".

 

"Are you saying I'm a Nazi?"

 

"Of course not".

 

etc

[Stu Monty]

You're right.

 

They're just saying he sounds like one. Completely different.

 

"You sound like a Nazi".

 

"Are you saying I'm a Nazi?"

 

"Of course not".

 

etc

 

In a conversation about someone being careful how they voice opinions, or not fleshing them out properly, then, yes, sounding like something you're not is actually the crux of the matter.

 

You re-read Reade's piece to find the stuff on foreigners in academies yet? Sorry to sound a bit snide, probably uncalled for, but I notice that you skimmed past that point without reply. All that "I can only see one reason *nudge nudge, wink wink*" is painfully tedious.

[goatboy59]

Well, when Tony Barrett's explanatory blog is given the same tweets and coverage and vigourous enthusiasm as Joe Bernstein's snidey cherry picking I'll admit there isn't an agenda behind that shite.

 

You'll have a long wait. "Fuck what Tony, Pepe, Gerrard or Carragher think - I'm going with the Manc from a right-wing bogroll......"

 

As for Readey, he was talking about restrictions being put in place to ensure positive discrimination for English football personnel.

 

How is it not the same?

[goatboy59]

Again;

 

Carl Medjani, Daniel Sjolund, Frode Kippe, Gregory Vignal, Alou Diarra, Patrice Luzi, Godwin Antwi, Nabil El Zhar, Antonio Barragan, Miki Roque, Besian Idrizaj (RIP), Gabriel Paletta, Astrit Ajdarevic, Jordy Brouwer, Francisco Durán, Mikel San Jose, Lauri Dalla Valle, Daniel Ayala, Alex Kacaniklic, Vitor Flora, Ronald Huth, Nicola Saric, Krizstian Nemeth, Andras Simon, Patrick Poor, Sebastien Leto, Emanuel Mendy, Vincent Weijl, Jakob Sokolik, Damien Plessis, Christphper Buchtmann, Gerardo Bruna, Victor Palsson, Chris Mavinga, Dani Pacheco, Nicolaj Kohlert, Martin Hansen

 

 

Whilst the 10-12 previous years to that saw McManaman, Fowler, Owen, Gerrard and Carragher himself, added to the potential of the likes of Matteo and Thompson.

 

Carragher isn't focussing on race and country of origin, he's talking about what works and what doesn't - plus he has the evidence to back it up.

 

Racist and xenophobic? Whether you think he is it or 'merely' sounds it, you have to want it to see it.

[Il Fenomeno]

Rafael, Fabio, Fabregas, Clichy, Alex Song, Chesney etc. Bringing in foreign players does work if you buy the right ones, and even bringing in players that aren't local, but English, like Beckham also works.

[silverlining]

Rafael, Fabio, Fabregas, Clichy, Alex Song, Chesney etc. Bringing in foreign players does work if you buy the right ones, and even bringing in players that aren't local, but English, like Beckham also works.

 

So, summing up, the most important thing is that they're good players.

 

Agreed.

 

Next.

[piscinin]

Rafael, Fabio, Fabregas, Clichy, Alex Song, Chesney etc. Bringing in foreign players does work if you buy the right ones, and even bringing in players that aren't local, but English, like Beckham also works.

 

And bringing in local lads like Joe Kennedy, etc also sometimes doesn't work; or english players, like anderson and hobbs also sometimes doesn't work. Bringing in foreigners, i've also noticed, sometimes doesn't work.

 

It's almost as if the precise long/lat of the physical location where you were ejected from the womb is not all that important. Unless you want it to be.

[usernameunknown]

Goatboy getting owned badly here. You can admit to be wrong you know or that Jamie Carragher isnt perfect.

 

This "An agenda against him" "But Brian Reade said..." "I know you all hate Carragher". It's ridiculous.

 

It's also quite funny that the biggest shit stirrer on the site accuses others of having the problem!

[Stu Monty]

Well, when Tony Barrett's explanatory blog is given the same tweets and coverage and vigourous enthusiasm as Joe Bernstein's snidey cherry picking I'll admit there isn't an agenda behind that shite.

 

You'll have a long wait. "Fuck what Tony, Pepe, Gerrard or Carragher think - I'm going with the Manc from a right-wing bogroll......"

 

As for Readey, he was talking about restrictions being put in place to ensure positive discrimination for English football personnel.

 

How is it not the same?

 

He was writing very specifically about managers. You can make the link to someone talking about the make-up of English academies quite easily (not making it "the same thing") but I'm taking issue with the idea that you can't think of a single reason why people would take issue more with one than the other. I mean, you're not a stupid person. I'd venture you could, if you wanted to, think of a dozen reasons why one might be raised and not the other (like, for instance, not actually having read them both).

 

It's the sly insinuation that if you've taken issue with what Carragher says then it's because you clearly hate him and think he bummed Rafa's kids.

 

Not everyone thinks they are on a side in a war. Talking to people as if they do will irritate them. That's all I'm pointing out.

[JohnnyH]

I read what Carra said a few days ago when it was in the print media and was wondering when it would kick off with the ultra Carra lovers defending him to the hilt, the dislikers (I don’t believe there are any haters on here despite what some would have you believe) calling him racist, and the middle of the roads (the vast majority) having a bit of an issue with what he said but understanding where he was coming from.

 

From my side I think he worded it badly. It does come across as a bit foreigner-unfriendly, but I just don’t think he’s really thought it out that well is all. But I don’t think he’s racist.

 

If lads had to stay in their home countries until they were 18 then this would certainly help England, Spain, Germany, Italy and France and maybe a few others. But what is some ultra-talented Irish or Northern Irish lad going to do for example? By getting to move to a bigger club in a professional foreign league he gets to realise his talent with much better coaching. Letting him deal with amateur coaches through all his formative years is really setting him back to the foreign lads who were at Liverpool, or Milan, or Barca, or Bayern, etc, etc. Local only youth squads will work in the big 5 or 6 leagues, but after that it will result in a lot of talent going to waste.

[usernameunknown]

I read what Carra said a few days ago when it was in the print media and was wondering when it would kick off with the ultra Carra lovers defending him to the hilt, the dislikers (I don’t believe there are any haters on here despite what some would have you believe) calling him racist, and the middle of the roads (the vast majority) having a bit of an issue with what he said but understanding where he was coming from.

 

From my side I think he worded it badly. It does come across as a bit foreigner-unfriendly, but I just don’t think he’s really thought it out that well is all. But I don’t think he’s racist.

 

If lads had to stay in their home countries until they were 18 then this would certainly help England, Spain, Germany, Italy and France and maybe a few others. But what is some ultra-talented Irish or Northern Irish lad going to do for example? By getting to move to a bigger club in a professional foreign league he gets to realise his talent with much better coaching. Letting him deal with amateur coaches through all his formative years is really setting him back to the foreign lads who were at Liverpool, or Milan, or Barca, or Bayern, etc, etc. Local only youth squads will work in the big 5 or 6 leagues, but after that it will result in a lot of talent going to waste.

 

Yeah theres definite grey areas there, the self proclaimed best league in the league and with a football mad country with such a population should be able to produce a decent manager. But equally what about the crap countries, what if they want to splash out on a big name to boost football development in their country, can you say no to that?

 

And on the kids, if you're an excellent local I believe you'll make it whether theres foreign kids here or not, on one side its great to be proud of where you are from and want a load of kids to have similar to what he's had in life but equally we need the best talent out there and you cant begrudge a youngster coming over and getting a chance like this.

 

And I agree, dont think he's anti foreign or whatever, just wrong in this case.

 

It's a shame really as I think its a pretty decent subject to discuss but unfortunately you just arent allowed to disagree with a Jamie Carragher interview or say he had a bad game on here without being met with "you ungrateful cunt" "you hate Carra because you love Benitez" etc etc

[Skidfingers McGonical]

I don't see anything wrong with what he said.