Carra on Talksport at 10am

[George Costanza]

i kinda of agree with Carra about young foreign players. There really should be an age limit for when they move to another country. More for their benefit than any propetive club. Granted there should be leeway for extreme circumstances + for the lesser national leagues wouldn't it be better for them if their young stars stayed for an extra year or two before joining the bigger clubs of the so called big leagues.

 

i totally agree with the person who said english managers should start looking abroad for jobs and gaining experience there. So should players too but given the amount of money english teams pay their players their isn't much chance of that.

 

eg could you see a young english player of 16/17 move to Barca to try & improve themselves? i can't, if a player of that quality is around they'll stay in england an earn probably 5x the amount of money even if it means them not realising their full potential

[ritchie]

I'll tell you now David Raven pissed all over everybody that day. Some people are seriously fucked up in the head over Carragher. If I had watched the millions wasted not only on the foreign kids but the hotel bills for their families as well I'd be pretty pissed off.

 

Maybe his choice of words could have been slightly different, but I know exactly what he was trying to say. And he is correct.

 

The amount of average foreigners brought in over the last decade (as listed by Dave) is an embarrassment - but if people had been doing their jobs properly at the Academy then we'd have been producing better local players.

 

How many Premiership players has our Academy produced between Gerrard and the lads that are coming through now? Very few local ones that's for sure. And how many of the Mancs brought through, for example? If we had good players coming through Houllier and Rafa wouldn't have had to look abroad anywhere near as much.

[goatboy59]

From as big a socialist as they come;

 

 

Why we need to bring in a Ramsey Rule before English coaches become extinct

 

By Brian Reade

 

In the week that the Wally With The Brolly walked again, it’s only right we focus on the imminent exit of his England successor.

 

And ask what we’ll do when the Wally With The Lolly, Fabio Capello, returns home with enough dosh to restore Italy’s AAA credit rating.

 

Some say Jamie Carragher went over the top by calling England cheats for appointing foreigners as national coach .

 

But surely everyone outside of Soho Square agrees with him when he says having to twice admit in recent years that we don’t have an Englishman capable of picking our best 11 players is embarrassing.

 

For a country that sees itself as an elite footballing nation, it is mortifying.

 

Especially when, to date, those foreign coaches have given back no glory, or even fresh ideas, for their king’s ransom.

 

It gets even more cringeful when you recall Steve McClaren was only rushed in after Phil Scolari accepted, then turned down the job, and they needed someone - anyone - appointed quickly to cover up the humiliation.

 

The point is, three times in this young century we have needed to appoint a national coach and on none of those occasions did the FA believe an Englishman was up to it.

 

What an astonishing indictment that is on our national sport.

 

It says we have so neglected the development of our own coaches that we daren’t entrust players who have come through the same system to their care.

 

Admittedly, the policy of simply handing the job to the best-equipped Englishman available has, at times, backfired.

 

Kevin Keegan and Graham Taylor were both out of their depth, but Glenn Hoddle wasn’t as bad as his hysterical exit implied.

 

And when you look at some of the English coaches since the 1960s: Sir Alf Ramsey, Bob Paisley, Brian Clough (one World Cup, five European Cups between them); Terry Venables, Bobby Robson (took England to semi-finals of tournaments); Bertie Mee, Bill Nicholson (won league and FA Cup doubles); Don Revie, Joe Mercer and Malcolm Allison (won the league, FA Cup and European trophies) it’s clear that we don’t have a fault in the gene pool.

 

Englishmen can coach. It just seems that, since the formation of the globally-obsessed Premier League, few have been given the chance at the highest level to add their names to that illustrious list.

 

There are 13 foreigners and seven Englishmen coaching in the top flight.

 

That is high by recent standards, but when you consider there are as many men from one non-English city (Glasgow) managing in the same league, it doesn’t seem high at all.

 

We can’t buck the market to manufacture Paisleys and Cloughs.

 

There is no way we can have a nationalistic version of the Rooney Rule (let’s call it the Ramsey Rule), where Premier League clubs are forced to interview Englishmen for managerial vacancies.

 

It wouldn't work for the same reason a Rooney Rule for minorities wouldn’t work - big clubs don’t have short-lists. They go for the man they want, regardless of nationality, colour or outside directives.

 

So if we are to address the embarrassing decline of top-class English coaches it has to come from the FA.

 

They have to admit they blundered by hiring foreigners who brought nothing to the party but their bank details. And decree in future they will hire the best Englishman for the job.

 

It won’t guarantee we win the World Cup, but it may inspire a Brummie, Geordie, Manc, Tyke or Scouser to do his coaching badges and aim for the top, in the knowledge that if he’s good enough he’ll get there.

[Guest ShoePiss]

I'm sure skippy said something similar a couple of weeks ago, don't remember him getting any stick for it. I understand it's a bit different as he's not a current player though. I haven't read exactly what Carra said but get the gist of it from the last page.

[Phoenix]

Maybe we should appoint Hodgson.....

[Guest alantkayll]

The amount of average foreigners brought in over the last decade (as listed by Dave) is an embarrassment - but if people had been doing their jobs properly at the Academy then we'd have been producing better local players.

 

How many Premiership players has our Academy produced between Gerrard and the lads that are coming through now? Very few local ones that's for sure. And how many of the Mancs brought through, for example? If we had good players coming through Houllier and Rafa wouldn't have had to look abroad anywhere near as much.

 

 

That is not true, both Houllier and Rafa fell out with the academy pretty early in their reigns and were not interested in bringing anybody through(hence the Heighway rant on TV).

 

Rafa bought a whole reserve team from abroad just to piss the academy off. One thing is for certain there was a "us and them" attitude right through the club and the "club" was the main thing that suffered. It should have been sorted because for over a decade now the Academy could just as well had a "for sale" sign on it.

 

Hopefully everything is going under one roof in the near future and we won't see the politics any more.

[ritchie]

That is not true, both Houllier and Rafa fell out with the academy pretty early in their reigns and were not interested in bringing anybody through(hence the Heighway rant on TV).

 

Rafa bought a whole reserve team from abroad just to piss the academy off. One thing is for certain there was a "us and them" attitude right through the club and the "club" was the main thing that suffered. It should have been sorted because for over a decade now the Academy could just as well had a "for sale" sign on it.

 

Hopefully everything is going under one roof in the near future and we won't see the politics any more.

 

I'd say the two Spanish coaches Rafa brought in, promoting McParland and bringing Kenny back has done more than anything to help turn the academy around, so let's give him some credit.

 

It was going nowhere under Heighway.

[Kevin D]

That comes across as a little bit rabid, particularly from a guy who strikes me as one of the most intelligent posters on here.

 

I am a fan of Jamie, am happy to see him first choice & understood the decision to dispense with Rafa's services , but I am not too thrilled by Carra's comments and in respect of talksport, worry that if you lie down with dogs too often you get fleas.

 

In my opinion, Goatboy is the smartest guy on here by a mile, it's just that he's also genuinely insane.

[Code]

What do people consider the 10 best national teams in the world?

 

How many of them have had foreign coaches?

 

Its a sad state of affairs that England have had two foreign coaches as recently as they have, but without the foreing influx to the PL the real state of "English" football might have hit home sooner and real changes had been made to the youth set up ages ago and more importantly the training methods and whats seen as important when it coems to abilities.

 

Carra brings forward a good point, but the different football culture most of the foreigners bring with them is something England should embrace and not try to get rid of or change to fit into their own ideas.

[Guest LFD]

It is fine for Carragher to say youngsters should stay in the country till they are 18, so we can't sign young Spanish, Italian players etc.

 

Sure, England probably would produce more talent.

 

But what about young players for leagues which aren't good enough for their talent? Can't see how they are going to progress.

[Guest alantkayll]

I'd say the two Spanish coaches Rafa brought in, promoting McParland and bringing Kenny back has done more than anything to help turn the academy around, so let's give him some credit.

 

It was going nowhere under Heighway.

 

Gerrard Owen Carragher McManamann Fowler to name just a few.

 

Plus 3 finals in 4 years says different. Rafa never appointed Dalglish, although you probably wont believe that.

 

I blame Rafa and Houllier because they never done what was best for the club. I'll reserve judgement on the two spanish coaches myself.

[goatboy59]

Ultimately, we need a good blend don't we?

 

The irony is that Rafa was a much better coach than Houllier but Gerard had a better idea which kind of foreign players would settle in England better. There's nothing particularly 'Northern' say about the Czechs but they seem to settle here; Cech is still around, and I think Paddy Vladi and even Milan might have stayed longer if they'd been wanted.

 

But when you think about Houllier and his best purchases, they were from Poland Germany Finland Norway and a Swiss who'd been in England for a couple of years.

 

With Rafa it was mostly his own countrymen and South Americans. That provided a problem because they wouldn't stay very long (even Alonso who loved us on the whole probably wanted to get back soonish) and of course if anything happened to the manager they would feel vulnerable as at least under Rafa they had an umbrella of protection from him in case things in the dressing room got heated.

 

The eternal problem of course is that whenever you talk about race and nationality at all you are wide open to accusations of isms however innocent you are of such thoughts. That's why any mention of not worshipping Rafa and xenophobia in the same sentence pisses me off because that sort of mud can stick and it's hard to wash off.

 

Like I said Carragher got a chance here because he was pretty good and came in at a time like Gerrard Owen and Fowler did when the first team was a bit shit and oh well what harm could it do?

 

The obstacle to Houllier and Benitez bringing in youngsters wasn't their own wishes but that they both improved our team so quickly that there was simply no time to blend them in, we were a top team competing for trophies and experimentation was off the agenda. Flanagan got some games last season because basically we were shit; now we've improved the squad he may not get as many chances and so his poor second half against Sunderland, entirely understandable from a youngster, has done him more harm than it would have last season.

 

To be honest if the reddest of Reds Brian Reade thinks there's a case for foreign limitations, I can only think of one reason why Carragher is getting it in the neck for virtually the same view.

 

That and sharing those views with a gang of monghawks like talk fucking sport. Lying down with dogs just about covers it.

[Strontium]

What absolute garbage. More intelligent than you will ever be.

I have voted BNP for the past 3 years.I could not care less if people called me a racist.

 

Just so people can see where you're coming from.

 

Now back to Carragher and his clearly xenophobic/borderline racist claptrap...

[goatboy59]

In my opinion, Goatboy is the smartest guy on here by a mile, it's just that he's also genuinely insane.

 

Got any fava beans?

 

 

fefefefefefefefefefefefefefefe

[ritchie]

Gerrard Owen Carragher McManamann Fowler to name just a few.

 

Plus 3 finals in 4 years says different. Rafa never appointed Dalglish, although you probably wont believe that.

 

And where are all those players now? Very few in the Premier League. We put winning matches ahead of developing players.

 

I'll reserve judgement on the two spanish coaches myself.

 

Kenny can't speak highly enough of them, and that'll do for me seeing as he worked with them every day.

[ritchie]

To be honest if the reddest of Reds Brian Reade thinks there's a case for foreign limitations, I can only think of one reason why Carragher is getting it in the neck for virtually the same view.

 

That reason being he's an employee of LFC, so he shouldn't really be saying it.

[goatboy59]

You really are clutching now!

[Guest alantkayll]

And where are all those players now? Very few in the Premier League. We put winning matches ahead of developing players.

 

 

 

Kenny can't speak highly enough of them, and that'll do for me seeing as he worked with them every day.

 

He say's he is happy with Andy Carroll does not stop people saying he is crap. Its the fact that most of them youth teams were better players than the ones who replaced them and cost as a whole, millions.

 

I'd have loved to see Hammill under some good coaches here and play with far better first team players, Most of them are playing some professional level of football here(mainly at Accrington).

 

It was a waste to move them on and not improve on them, that is my point mate.

[Sugar Ape]

Kenny can't speak highly enough of them, and that'll do for me seeing as he worked with them every day.

 

Kenny also spoke highly of Aquilani and Meireles. He won't speak badly of people in public, and rightly so.

[Randy Marsh]

I can see the general point that Jamie is making, and I don't necessarily think he's getting at the foreign players we have now. I agree with Dave in that he's talking more about a general change in rules.

 

The point to me is having the best, be they English, French, Spanish or whatever. We've brought in a lot of crap foreign players over the past decade, no doubts about it. But what local talent has that been at the expense of? Rooney is the only one you could say, and there was never a chance he'd have signed for Liverpool anyway. Who else? Rodwell? Don't see the reason for all the hype to be honest. Baxter? Hibbert? Osman? No ta. There has been a massive drop in local talent since the emergence of the likes of McManaman, Fowler, Owen, Carra, Gerrard and Rooney.

 

The fact is it's a different game today to when Carra and his generation played youth football. It's an international game now and signing foreign youngsters is part and parcel and probably always will be. As other posters have pointed out, the best thing our club has done at youth level since Gerrard broke on to the scene was the overhaul instigated by Rafa which brought in the cream of youth coaching in Borrell and Segura from La Macia Barcelona, and dragged our academy system in to the 21st century. After the baron spell of the past decade, we now look like we have a whole flood of players who could break through in to the first team in the next few years, including quite a few local and English lads. Quality is quality, no matter were you come from.

[ritchie]

Kenny also spoke highly of Aquilani and Meireles. He won't speak badly of people in public, and rightly so.

 

Bigging up his own players is part of his man-management while he's asked questions about these players all the time. He doesn't have to say anything about Borrell or Segura.

 

Only last week I heard Adam Morgan saying Borrell is the best coach he's worked for and has been a huge influence for him. Personally i'm thankful Rafa brought them over and am not consumed by so much hate for him (unlike a few on here) that I can't recognise when he did positive things.

[Guest LFD]

He say's he is happy with Andy Carroll does not stop people saying he is crap.

 

I haven't seen anyone say that.

[ritchie]

He say's he is happy with Andy Carroll does not stop people saying he is crap.

 

He's defending his player. It's part of his job to build up his confidence and be asked those questions.

 

I'd have loved to see Hammill under some good coaches here and play with far better first team players, Most of them are playing some professional level of football here(mainly at Accrington).

 

It was a waste to move them on and not improve on them, that is my point mate.

 

But none of these lads have really gone and proved Rafa or Houllier wrong to be honest. Hammill is a good player, but he's not really pulling up any trees at Wolves. You say it's a waste to move them on, but it's a waste to keep players like Irwin around until they're 21 when they're clearly not going to make the grade.

 

Let them move on so they can play first-team football.

[Il Fenomeno]

To be honest if the reddest of Reds Brian Reade thinks there's a case for foreign limitations, I can only think of one reason why Carragher is getting it in the neck for virtually the same view.

 

There's a difference between saying there should be a cap on the amount of foreign players coming into the academy, and saying there should be NO players that aren't local in the academy. It's just detrimental to the club to limit yourself to a selection of players that live within a 40 (or w.e) mile radius away from Anfield, especially when competing with the amount of local clubs that we are competing with. When we could cherry pick the best youngsters from around the country (and even world). Which is what we've done with the likes of Sama, Adorjan, Suso, Sterling and Silva.

 

Carragher's view is much more extreme, which is why he has got much more criticism for it, plus maybe no one on here had actually read the Daily Mirror before you posted that article.

 

Kenny also spoke highly of Aquilani and Meireles. He won't speak badly of people in public, and rightly so.

 

Why would he have anything bad to say about Aquilani and Meireles anyway, Aquilani did nothing wrong here and was a professional at all times, and Kenny preferred Henderson/Spearing/Lucas/Gerrard/Adam/Whoever to Meireles so he sold him. Nothing bad happened, so he doesn't have to criticise them in the press, because they didn't do anything wrong.

[robslappa]

Just so people can see where you're coming from.

 

Now back to Carragher and his clearly xenophobic/borderline racist claptrap...

 

You've got a cheek questioning anyone's politics, regarldess of who they may vote for.