Slagging off Soccer Saturday - 3rd Jan edition

[suzy]

As a woman I’m actually not too keen on women pundits. Alex Scott is ok and I like Sue Smith. Others I’ve seen are often cringey.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Oh im a bigot am i? And you know that exactly how? Because some kids said they had heroes who where Black? One of mine is John Barnes. Actually I love the Marvel films and actually have a statue of Chadwick Boseman on the shelf as Black Panther. Go figure.

 

I'd say, its gobshites like you that are part of the problem. Judgemental, dismissive no marks who don't have the ability to have a conversation and who, in the age of social media decide who the bad guys are based off absolutely fucking zero.

BWAAAHAAAHAAAHAAHAAHAHAHA!

 

"I'm not a racist; some of my best action figures are black!"

 

He's calling you a bigot because you're on here moaning about the possibility that a black person might be offered a job. (That's pretty bigoted behaviour. )

[AngryOfTuebrook]

52 minutes ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Myth? Where do you work exactly? Again i'll ask the question have you been living under a fucking rock? Theres been job roles created specifically for people of a certain skin colour, the athletic was one example a few months back advertised by Pearce, i personally know of comic and book authors who have specifically asked for people of colour and LGBT only to apply for roles they have set up. The BBC themselves hire according to a diversity charter based upon quotas. I fucking know because I have been dealing with them for years.

 

I have zero problems with hiring the right person for the right role. What i do have a problem with, and as @Dave D so excellently put it, is readdressing the balance by using the same tactic as the root problem, it doesnt solve the problem, long term, it just creates further ill will. Thats my point.

 

Anyway I'm not continuing this with you further, you were problematic in the other thread, totally adamant that we live in a racist UK and dismissing the socio-economic problems that are a driver for most of this. 

If I were to suggest "go and look up the difference between positive action and reverse discrimination" I suspect DaveD would be happy to do so, because he comes across as a person of good faith. 

You and Grinch won't, because you're happy in your blinkered, racist little ruts.

 

You say you have no problem with hiring the right person for this Sky Sports role (one which really requires very few qualifications to do it as well as the panel they have had for years) - and yet you've already worked yourself into a bed-wetting frenzy over the mere possibility that a black man or a woman might get the job.

 

You're a bigot.

[Harry Squatter]

Was Phil Thompson as biased as everyone made out?. It's obvious that he's a Liverpool fan but I've never noticed him having any snidey digs at Everton or the Mancs or having a constant agenda against rivals of Liverpool.

 

Le Tissier and Alan Smith dont like Liverpool and make that clear, hinchcliffe hates us as well but I always though Phil Thompson was always objective towards other teams. 

 

Also, out of all of them he was the only one who had any coaching or management experience. I always thought he did well when he stepped in for Houllier after his heart attack.

[Stickman]

12 minutes ago, Doctor Troy said:

Was Phil Thompson as biased as everyone made out?. It's obvious that he's a Liverpool fan but I've never noticed him having any snidey digs at Everton or the Mancs or having a constant agenda against rivals of Liverpool.

 

Le Tissier and Alan Smith dont like Liverpool and make that clear, hinchcliffe hates us as well but I always though Phil Thompson was always objective towards other teams. 

 

Also, out of all of them he was the only one who had any coaching or management experience. I always thought he did well when he stepped in for Houllier after his heart attack.

And the only one who was a legend ...They’d stopped players who played for a club commentating on their own games a while back .

Thompson was sound on SS and didn’t mind getting the piss taken out of him,Le Tissier was the one I could never take to and if he doesn’t like Liverpool fair enough but he just seemed like such a dull cunt anyway who never added anything to the panel or show...Maybe he wanted Brexit brought up more 

 

Always loved this clip of Thommo and to be fair Frank McLintock who used to be good on Sky gives and loves his club gives  it back the way it should be 

 

 

[Mathewbet1]

It had probably run its day anyway,  people watched for the 'banter', yes it is male dominated lads humour but thats a large part of football, does'unt mean woman cant enjoy it too. They could get some new younger pundits but the dynamic of the show probably will be a bit sterile. I think people might be reading too much into this black lives matter thing it should not be based on the colour of your skin or gender, but weather or not your a good pundit or not. Some of the female pundits are ok and freshen some shows up a bit. The BT one is quite good i actually prefer it to the sky one, they have a good mix on there. Sutton and Savage have some good humour thrown in and the female guests they have are generally very good.

[Pidge]

1 hour ago, suzy said:

As a woman I’m actually not too keen on women pundits. Alex Scott is ok and I like Sue Smith. Others I’ve seen are often cringey.

Carney's decent, takes a bit too much time to construct a point but has some interesting takes. Aluko's done all right as well, not overly but wouldn't mind seeing her get more of a chance.

 

Also between Cates and Logan being two of the better anchors out there, I really don't get the issue at this point.

 

Instead, we're probably going to get Gareth Barry now he's retired. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I don't envy whoever has the job of selecting the new panel. I think most people would want to see someone young enough to have still been playing, say, 10 years ago and with experience at the top of the Premier League. Fluency in English is a necessity (although that never held Merson back) and they need to be available  (i.e. not managing, playing or doing punditry elsewhere). Most of the people who fit that description have already done bits of punditry and are boring bastards.  Once you've identified a potential candidate, you then have to persuade them that this is how they want to spend every Saturday. 

[Davelfc]

I thought they should have done their best to refresh the format a while ago, not sure what they can do though as the BT Sports version is as shite. Ultimately because I am either at the game or not watching this then what they do doesn't affect me so I care little. 

 

The times I have had it on, Stelling does my head in and the 'banter' between the old guys isn't entertaining to me. I'd rather have had the ceefax or teletext like in the old days. 

 

Most of that panel played before a lot of their viewership was born, so I can understand bringing in new blood that have actually played with some of the current players, so they bring an extra insight into the modern game at this level. I get that it can't be easy to find too many ex players that are good pundits with a deep knowledge of the game while also being articulate enough to be able to manage live TV. 

 

I will continue to use an app that pings to tell me if a game I am interested in has had a goal scored. 

[BeefStroganoff]

1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

BWAAAHAAAHAAAHAAHAAHAHAHA!

 

"I'm not a racist; some of my best action figures are black!"

 

He's calling you a bigot because you're on here moaning about the possibility that a black person might be offered a job. (That's pretty bigoted behaviour. )

YAWN

[Bob]

37 minutes ago, Pidge said:

Carney's decent, takes a bit too much time to construct a point but has some interesting takes. Aluko's done all right as well, not overly but wouldn't mind seeing her get more of a chance.

 

Also between Cates and Logan being two of the better anchors out there, I really don't get the issue at this point.

 

Instead, we're probably going to get Gareth Barry now he's retired. 

I can’t stand the sound of Carney. It’s nothing to do with what she’s saying but her voice and accent drives me nuts and I have to turn over the radio after a while when she’s on.

[Jairzinho]

2 hours ago, suzy said:

As a woman I’m actually not too keen on women pundits. Alex Scott is ok and I like Sue Smith. Others I’ve seen are often cringey.

I think female pundits suffer from a couple of things. One is that however good a player, or manager, they are/were the majority of male ex players/managers simply give no weight to women's football, and therefore the achievements in the game are dismissed. Women in the game often react to this with deference. I don't want to listen to a commentator, male or female, that doesn't feel confident enough to criticise something. 

 

The other problem, and I see/hear this a lot in cricket, is that female commentators and pundits tend to go over the top with trying to fit in. This is entirely understandable, but it doesn't feel remotely genuine. A few female cricket commentators and pundits basically just copy some of their male counterparts. From what they talk about, to how they talk about it. Fake "banter" and even trying to mirror how a male commentator/pundit reacts to a wicket, something controversial, etc, etc. It sounds terrible, and I think it makes all participants feel uncomfortable as well.

 

They're in a pretty shitty spot women when it comes to commentary and punditry. I'm not really sure what the solution is. It does sometimes feel like the broadcasters feel an obligation to add some women to the team. The perception of this alone does them no favours. 

 

They're fairly evidently judged more harshly than men in football. Lets be honest, the standard of punditry and commentary in football is utterly atrocious. From the clearly biased to those that can barely string a sentence together. The average male football pundit/commentator is abysmal. 

 

In cricket the standard is much higher (probably easier to commentate on a slower paced game) so you'd imagine it would be more difficult, but I think the game is generally more welcoming anyway. There is considerably less "lad" culture to it that would be against a female commentator simply because she's female.

 

There is a much finer line that women need to balance between deference and arrogance. This makes "being themselves" considerably more difficult, but I think in order for a commentator or pundit to be any good they have to achieve this. 

[DalyanPete]

3 hours ago, Stickman said:

And the only one who was a legend ...They’d stopped players who played for a club commentating on their own games a while back .

Thompson was sound on SS and didn’t mind getting the piss taken out of him,Le Tissier was the one I could never take to and if he doesn’t like Liverpool fair enough but he just seemed like such a dull cunt anyway who never added anything to the panel or show...Maybe he wanted Brexit brought up more 

 

Always loved this clip of Thommo and to be fair Frank McLintock who used to be good on Sky gives and loves his club gives  it back the way it should be 

 

 

When you watch clips like that, always think, fuck me I love this club

[sir roger]

5 hours ago, Stickman said:

And the only one who was a legend ...They’d stopped players who played for a club commentating on their own games a while back .

Thompson was sound on SS and didn’t mind getting the piss taken out of him,Le Tissier was the one I could never take to and if he doesn’t like Liverpool fair enough but he just seemed like such a dull cunt anyway who never added anything to the panel or show...Maybe he wanted Brexit brought up more 

 

Always loved this clip of Thommo and to be fair Frank McLintock who used to be good on Sky gives and loves his club gives  it back the way it should be 

 

 

I'm not sure Frank's impromptu Agatha Christie reviews will ever be part of SSN football output again.

[Bruce Spanner]

4 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

I think female pundits suffer from a couple of things. One is that however good a player, or manager, they are/were the majority of male ex players/managers simply give no weight to women's football, and therefore the achievements in the game are dismissed. Women in the game often react to this with deference. I don't want to listen to a commentator, male or female, that doesn't feel confident enough to criticise something. 

 

The other problem, and I see/hear this a lot in cricket, is that female commentators and pundits tend to go over the top with trying to fit in. This is entirely understandable, but it doesn't feel remotely genuine. A few female cricket commentators and pundits basically just copy some of their male counterparts. From what they talk about, to how they talk about it. Fake "banter" and even trying to mirror how a male commentator/pundit reacts to a wicket, something controversial, etc, etc. It sounds terrible, and I think it makes all participants feel uncomfortable as well.

 

They're in a pretty shitty spot women when it comes to commentary and punditry. I'm not really sure what the solution is. It does sometimes feel like the broadcasters feel an obligation to add some women to the team. The perception of this alone does them no favours. 

 

They're fairly evidently judged more harshly than men in football. Lets be honest, the standard of punditry and commentary in football is utterly atrocious. From the clearly biased to those that can barely string a sentence together. The average male football pundit/commentator is abysmal. 

 

In cricket the standard is much higher (probably easier to commentate on a slower paced game) so you'd imagine it would be more difficult, but I think the game is generally more welcoming anyway. There is considerably less "lad" culture to it that would be against a female commentator simply because she's female.

 

There is a much finer line that women need to balance between deference and arrogance. This makes "being themselves" considerably more difficult, but I think in order for a commentator or pundit to be any good they have to achieve this. 

TL:DR

 

Men are, and always have been, cunts to women.

[VladimirIlyich]

3 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

TL:DR

 

Men are, and always have been, cunts to women.

That's because they wouldn't have it any other way!*

 

*My Bernard Manning impersonation.

[Captain Howdy]

7 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

I think female pundits suffer from a couple of things. One is that however good a player, or manager, they are/were the majority of male ex players/managers simply give no weight to women's football, and therefore the achievements in the game are dismissed. Women in the game often react to this with deference. I don't want to listen to a commentator, male or female, that doesn't feel confident enough to criticise something. 

 

The other problem, and I see/hear this a lot in cricket, is that female commentators and pundits tend to go over the top with trying to fit in. This is entirely understandable, but it doesn't feel remotely genuine. A few female cricket commentators and pundits basically just copy some of their male counterparts. From what they talk about, to how they talk about it. Fake "banter" and even trying to mirror how a male commentator/pundit reacts to a wicket, something controversial, etc, etc. It sounds terrible, and I think it makes all participants feel uncomfortable as well.

 

They're in a pretty shitty spot women when it comes to commentary and punditry. I'm not really sure what the solution is. It does sometimes feel like the broadcasters feel an obligation to add some women to the team. The perception of this alone does them no favours. 

 

They're fairly evidently judged more harshly than men in football. Lets be honest, the standard of punditry and commentary in football is utterly atrocious. From the clearly biased to those that can barely string a sentence together. The average male football pundit/commentator is abysmal. 

 

In cricket the standard is much higher (probably easier to commentate on a slower paced game) so you'd imagine it would be more difficult, but I think the game is generally more welcoming anyway. There is considerably less "lad" culture to it that would be against a female commentator simply because she's female.

 

There is a much finer line that women need to balance between deference and arrogance. This makes "being themselves" considerably more difficult, but I think in order for a commentator or pundit to be any good they have to achieve this. 

Excellent post

[Aventus]

Looks like match of the day might be making an effort to encourage equality. 

 

Let me be the first to say I've never heard of the cunts, but anything to keep Shearer and Murphy off my screen can only be a good thing. 

[VladimirIlyich]

Female and black pundits can be as mundane and boring as middle aged white male pundits.

[Gnasher]

Not enough gay and transgender pundits on for my liking, get Rylan Clark and Frank Maloney, or is it Kelly doing next season's fa cup.

[Bob]

19 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

I think female pundits suffer from a couple of things. One is that however good a player, or manager, they are/were the majority of male ex players/managers simply give no weight to women's football, and therefore the achievements in the game are dismissed. Women in the game often react to this with deference. I don't want to listen to a commentator, male or female, that doesn't feel confident enough to criticise something. 

 

The other problem, and I see/hear this a lot in cricket, is that female commentators and pundits tend to go over the top with trying to fit in. This is entirely understandable, but it doesn't feel remotely genuine. A few female cricket commentators and pundits basically just copy some of their male counterparts. From what they talk about, to how they talk about it. Fake "banter" and even trying to mirror how a male commentator/pundit reacts to a wicket, something controversial, etc, etc. It sounds terrible, and I think it makes all participants feel uncomfortable as well.

 

They're in a pretty shitty spot women when it comes to commentary and punditry. I'm not really sure what the solution is. It does sometimes feel like the broadcasters feel an obligation to add some women to the team. The perception of this alone does them no favours. 

 

They're fairly evidently judged more harshly than men in football. Lets be honest, the standard of punditry and commentary in football is utterly atrocious. From the clearly biased to those that can barely string a sentence together. The average male football pundit/commentator is abysmal. 

 

In cricket the standard is much higher (probably easier to commentate on a slower paced game) so you'd imagine it would be more difficult, but I think the game is generally more welcoming anyway. There is considerably less "lad" culture to it that would be against a female commentator simply because she's female.

 

There is a much finer line that women need to balance between deference and arrogance. This makes "being themselves" considerably more difficult, but I think in order for a commentator or pundit to be any good they have to achieve this. 

I have to say I enjoy the variation brought by the women commentators on TMS, and think they all add something to the mix in a positive manner and haven’t spotted the overreaction/mimicry you mention.

 

I particularly like Isa Guha and Alison Mitchell.

 

the pace of commentary helps as 95% or more of the time it is just discussion in a standard speaking voice, that fits in alongside the others. 
 

that’s said I think TMS does a fantastic job overall of having varied and interesting voices, and by and large they seem to get it right with opposition/overseas commentator too. Brathwaite during the recent Windies series was great to listen to.

[Section_31]

I'm not that arsed these days about having female pundits although at first I thought it was pretty contrived. Not because they're women but because they can't speak with authority about the game they're commenting on at that level. Most pundits have played at premier league level, i might be wrong but i can't think of a male pundit on prime time tv who's only played at championship level or below.

 

if they want to put more women on they could do it at presenter and reporter level. But as I say, not that arsed any more, would rather have a woman on there saying something reasonably innofensive than carrsgher and neville's faux panto ear aids.

[Dave D]

Ant and Dec need to have a look at themselves

[Jairzinho]

1 hour ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

I have to say I enjoy the variation brought by the women commentators on TMS, and think they all add something to the mix in a positive manner and haven’t spotted the overreaction/mimicry you mention.

 

I particularly like Isa Guha and Alison Mitchell.

 

the pace of commentary helps as 95% or more of the time it is just discussion in a standard speaking voice, that fits in alongside the others. 
 

that’s said I think TMS does a fantastic job overall of having varied and interesting voices, and by and large they seem to get it right with opposition/overseas commentator too. Brathwaite during the recent Windies series was great to listen to.

I was referring to telly coverage really. I haven't listened to TMS for years.

 

The test coverage on telly is much better than the one day stuff. I remember one woman, can't remember her name, basically mimicking Nick Knight. It was excruciating.

[El Dangerous]

I’ll say it now, ever since Wright popped the specs on he’s become a better pundit. Definitely some Homer Simpson crayon up the nose shit going on there.