Russia v Ukraine

[Section_31]

17 minutes ago, Redder Lurtz said:

Not arsed about the bickering. Let's be honest, Putin is being a total cunt. Anyone tell me if this is likely to go nuclear?

 

Me and Mrs Lurtz have just bought a motorhome. Welsh mountains or Scottish Highlands? 

 

The calf of man. Already got it planned. Spike Island, steal a boat, tinned beef from Costco and tent.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Section_31 said:

 

The calf of man. Already got it planned. Spike Island, steal a boat, tinned beef from Costco and tent.

Heaven 

[Red Phoenix]

PICK A SIDE!

 

[Red Phoenix]

2 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Facts don't go down well on here with some mate 

 

I love facts, they're great. The problem is the masses of propaganda all over the place. I've also been pointing out how fucking insane I think the US and NATO are but it doesn't mean I'm trying to spread bullshit or side with Russia.

 

All I hope for mainly is that there's talks, then a peace agreement and no war.

 

Also : I'm not trying to camp in this thread in any type of way like I did with the original covid thread or the alt covid thread. I'm just sick of this bullshit with the US and Russia all the time and have posted a bit because it pisses me off. Hopefully there's some agreement and it's over shortly too.

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

I love facts, they're great. The problem is the masses of propaganda all over the place. I've also been pointing out how fucking insane I think the US and NATO are but it doesn't mean I'm trying to spread bullshit or side with Russia.

 

All I hope for mainly is that there's talks, then a peace agreement and no war.

Me too mate. 

[Creator Supreme]

3 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

I love facts, they're great. The problem is the masses of propaganda all over the place. I've also been pointing out how fucking insane I think the US and NATO are but it doesn't mean I'm trying to spread bullshit or side with Russia.

 

All I hope for mainly is that there's talks, then a peace agreement and no war.

Absolutely!

[TheHowieLama]

2 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

All I hope for mainly is that there's talks, then a peace agreement and no war.

There seems to be an unbridgeable divide here between the Ukrainians and the Russians - leave the media and the Yoo S out of it.

 

As a fella who is anti war and anti sanctions what would any response to hypothetical aggression from a country be?

Is there one?

[Red Phoenix]

23 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

There seems to be an unbridgeable divide here between the Ukrainians and the Russians - leave the media and the Yoo S out of it.

 

As a fella who is anti war and anti sanctions what would any response to hypothetical aggression from a country be?

Is there one?

 

I don't think it's possible to leave the US or the media out of this especially when you look at the history the US has with Ukraine. I'll try not to start that up again though.

 

When it comes to sanctions I don't ever recall saying I was anti-sanctions, zero memory of putting those two words together. What does my head in is the US throwing them around like confetti. Sanctions can cause massive damage to populations that have done nothing wrong as well, I'd really like to see countries avoiding that way more from here on out.

 

I don't have detailed ideas of how a country should be punished for genuine aggression though and I'm not pretending to be an expert or a specialist. The most sensible option I can think of is that we have countries putting as much effort as possible into avoiding war in the first place. And there must be a way of bridging the divide between Ukraine and Russia, maybe it's not been found yet though and something will be worked out eventually.

 

And if we get through this current madness without war it'd be great if we could have the US, Russia, China and other nuclear powers getting together and being serious about some nuclear disarmament talks. This shit is horrible to have to think about each time Russia or China are having a go with the US. Or when India are having a go with China or Pakistan. edit : and when North Korea are at it too.

[M_B]

3 hours ago, Arniepie said:

Sutely the hypocrisy claims would have been more valid in ww1 where we moved against German expansionism,despite having the biggest empire in the world?

I'm not sure the degree of validity is important. It certainly applied in both wars. Britain still had the biggest empire in the world at the beginning of WW2.

 

WW1: Britain declared war when Germany invaded Belgium.

WW2: Britain declared war when Germany invaded Poland.

[J-V]

1 hour ago, Redder Lurtz said:

Not arsed about the bickering. Let's be honest, Putin is being a total cunt. Anyone tell me if this is likely to go nuclear?

 

Me and Mrs Lurtz have just bought a motorhome. Welsh mountains or Scottish Highlands? 

I heard Ukraine is nice this time of the Year.

[Gnasher]

Ukraine and Russia have got a few things in common,

 

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-among-least-accepting-countries-for-gays/30692269.html

[Gnasher]

Aww looks like the fighting is going to start in the city of Doneski which was is a Republican town separate to Ukraine set up and born by Welsh miners and steelworkers from Merthyr Tydfil. On the TV they saying a lot of the inhabitants, women and children are trying to flee to Russia, hope they ok.

[Ne Moe Imya]

22 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

When it comes to sanctions I don't ever recall saying I was anti-sanctions, zero memory of putting those two words together. What does my head in is the US throwing them around like confetti. Sanctions can cause massive damage to populations that have done nothing wrong as well, I'd really like to see countries avoiding that way more from here on out.

 

I don't have detailed ideas of how a country should be punished for genuine aggression though and I'm not pretending to be an expert or a specialist. The most sensible option I can think of is that we have countries putting as much effort as possible into avoiding war in the first place. And there must be a way of bridging the divide between Ukraine and Russia, maybe it's not been found yet though and something will be worked out eventually.

Mate, I'm genuinely not trying to go after you here but this, the bit in bold in particular, is absolute nonsense.

 

OF COURSE everyone reasonable agrees that we should "put as much effort as possible into avoiding war in the first place." The problem with this is that Russia is simply not allowing that option. Like it or not, as much as we want to avoid this, sometimes there are aggressive people who just want what they want and will take whatever they can get, even if it hurts others. The same applies to nations, especially when people like that are making the decisions.

 

The people who run the nation of Russia are 100% in this category. And while it's true that most of the people who run the UK and USA are as well, we have found a solution that at least keeps their tendencies bottled up somewhat in liberal democracy. Which they don't have in Russia.

 

That means that Putin gets whatever he wants, whenever he wants it, and there's absolutely nothing you or anyone else can do to stop him. The one thing he is terrified of is his own population rising up to rebel against him to install a democratic government, one where the corrupt are held to account. That's why he has been at huge pains to ensure that Ukraine's attempt to do just that fails - what could be worse, from his perspective, than a huge nation with a very similar history and culture right next door to you, successfully implementing democracy?

 

So no, there will not be any option of simply "avoiding war by putting in some effort." He doesn't want Ukraine to have a democracy, and he is willing to sacrifice the lives of tens of thousands of his soldiers (not to mention Ukrainian soldiers/civilians, who he doesn't even count) to see it happen. You simply cannot reason with this logic. It is like trying to reason with a violent drunk down at the pub - the only thing to do is call the coppers and forcibly put him in for the night and let him sleep it off.

 

As for sanctions, the reason they have had no impact is because we haven't even considered implementing the sanctions that would actually impact the decision-makers in Russia, because that would hurt our own nations as well (though to a much lesser degree). Sanctioning the money-men behind Putin would certainly curtail his adventurism in Ukraine, and almost immediately, as he would feel intense pressure from the oligarchs who are losing their estates and yachts all over the UK/Mediterranean, but London real estate prices would dip and we can't have that.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

On 19/02/2022 at 14:48, Arniepie said:

Putin  compared to stalin and Hitler.

Nothing like a sense of perspective. 

I wonder if we took a tally of the number of countries interfered with, by Russia and America  who would come out on top?

Great Britain.

[Colonel Bumcunt]

I'm not really sweating the Russians.  We launder their money. 

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

I'm not really sweating the Russians.  We launder their money. 

Paulie over here 

[Arniepie]

On 19/02/2022 at 23:15, M_B said:

I'm not sure the degree of validity is important. It certainly applied in both wars. Britain still had the biggest empire in the world at the beginning of WW2.

 

WW1: Britain declared war when Germany invaded Belgium.

WW2: Britain declared war when Germany invaded Poland.

So the accusation of hypocrisy on our part was fairly valid then?

[Red Phoenix]

7 hours ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

Mate, I'm genuinely not trying to go after you here but this, the bit in bold in particular, is absolute nonsense.

 

OF COURSE everyone reasonable agrees that we should "put as much effort as possible into avoiding war in the first place." The problem with this is that Russia is simply not allowing that option. Like it or not, as much as we want to avoid this, sometimes there are aggressive people who just want what they want and will take whatever they can get, even if it hurts others. The same applies to nations, especially when people like that are making the decisions.

 

The people who run the nation of Russia are 100% in this category. And while it's true that most of the people who run the UK and USA are as well, we have found a solution that at least keeps their tendencies bottled up somewhat in liberal democracy. Which they don't have in Russia.

 

That means that Putin gets whatever he wants, whenever he wants it, and there's absolutely nothing you or anyone else can do to stop him. The one thing he is terrified of is his own population rising up to rebel against him to install a democratic government, one where the corrupt are held to account. That's why he has been at huge pains to ensure that Ukraine's attempt to do just that fails - what could be worse, from his perspective, than a huge nation with a very similar history and culture right next door to you, successfully implementing democracy?

 

So no, there will not be any option of simply "avoiding war by putting in some effort." He doesn't want Ukraine to have a democracy, and he is willing to sacrifice the lives of tens of thousands of his soldiers (not to mention Ukrainian soldiers/civilians, who he doesn't even count) to see it happen. You simply cannot reason with this logic. It is like trying to reason with a violent drunk down at the pub - the only thing to do is call the coppers and forcibly put him in for the night and let him sleep it off.

 

As for sanctions, the reason they have had no impact is because we haven't even considered implementing the sanctions that would actually impact the decision-makers in Russia, because that would hurt our own nations as well (though to a much lesser degree). Sanctioning the money-men behind Putin would certainly curtail his adventurism in Ukraine, and almost immediately, as he would feel intense pressure from the oligarchs who are losing their estates and yachts all over the UK/Mediterranean, but London real estate prices would dip and we can't have that.

 

There's parts there that also apply to the US and UK. The US is a failed state, that's why Biden is president. The UK is also a failed state, that's why Johnson is pm (they both got "democratically elected", but only if you ignore the way that people like Corbyn and Sanders had things rigged against them and the entire electoral and media systems that helped put them in power in the first place.) You can't reason very well with either of those people. You can also say Ukraine is a failed state and a US/NATO proxy after what took place in 2014.

 

The hope is that when the gang of clowns stop and think for a while longer maybe they'll work something out that avoids war. On that note, Biden is supposed to be meeting with Putin again in the near future if Russia haven't invaded by that point : https://www.politico.eu/article/putin-biden-agree-to-summit-after-macron-calls/

[M_B]

8 hours ago, Arniepie said:

So the accusation of hypocrisy on our part was fairly valid then?

You think that meant Britain had no right to declare war on Hitler? You think the West has no right to resist Russia invading Ukraine?

[M_B]

3 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

The hope is that when the gang of clowns stop and think for a while longer maybe they'll work something out that avoids war.

The only concession that avoids war is to give the Donbass to Russia, recognize the Crimea as Russian, and to agree Ukraine will never join NATO.

 

That concession rewards Russian agression. They'll be high fiving each other in the Kremlin. And what is to stop them then doing the same to the Baltic States?

 

 

I don't think you have realised yet that Russia intends to invade Ukraine. The diplomacy bit is a sideshow.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

3 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

There's parts there that also apply to the US and UK. The US is a failed state, that's why Biden is president. The UK is also a failed state, that's why Johnson is pm (they both got "democratically elected", but only if you ignore the way that people like Corbyn and Sanders had things rigged against them and the entire electoral and media systems that helped put them in power in the first place.) You can't reason very well with either of those people. You can also say Ukraine is a failed state and a US/NATO proxy after what took place in 2014.

 

The hope is that when the gang of clowns stop and think for a while longer maybe they'll work something out that avoids war. On that note, Biden is supposed to be meeting with Putin again in the near future if Russia haven't invaded by that point : https://www.politico.eu/article/putin-biden-agree-to-summit-after-macron-calls/

With respect, I'm not sure you're using the term "failed state" correctly. It has a pretty clear definition, and if anything Biden, Johnson and the continuation of the hegemonic political classes, status quo and military industrial complex is the antithesis of a failed state.

[Red Phoenix]

2 hours ago, M_B said:

The only concession that avoids war is to give the Donbass to Russia, recognize the Crimea as Russian, and to agree Ukraine will never join NATO.

 

That concession rewards Russian agression. They'll be high fiving each other in the Kremlin. And what is to stop them then doing the same to the Baltic States?

 

 

I don't think you have realised yet that Russia intends to invade Ukraine. The diplomacy bit is a sideshow.

 

You're making a prediction, I'm waiting and seeing and hoping for the best.

 

1 hour ago, Babb'sBurstNad said:

With respect, I'm not sure you're using the term "failed state" correctly. It has a pretty clear definition, and if anything Biden, Johnson and the continuation of the hegemonic political classes, status quo and military industrial complex is the antithesis of a failed state.

 

Thanks, shithouse state then. The United States shithouse government and the United Kingdom shithouse government.

 

I was gonna say The United Shithouse States but that wouldn't be fair on the states themselves.

[SasaS]

8 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

There's parts there that also apply to the US and UK. The US is a failed state, that's why Biden is president. The UK is also a failed state, that's why Johnson is pm (they both got "democratically elected", but only if you ignore the way that people like Corbyn and Sanders had things rigged against them and the entire electoral and media systems that helped put them in power in the first place.) You can't reason very well with either of those people. You can also say Ukraine is a failed state and a US/NATO proxy after what took place in 2014.

 

The hope is that when the gang of clowns stop and think for a while longer maybe they'll work something out that avoids war. On that note, Biden is supposed to be meeting with Putin again in the near future if Russia haven't invaded by that point : https://www.politico.eu/article/putin-biden-agree-to-summit-after-macron-calls/

And Trump. They all won.

[Red Phoenix]

42 minutes ago, SasaS said:

And Trump. They all won.

 

It was Fox News that rigged it (Trump actually retweeted this) :

 

 

[Ezekiel 25:17]

On 19/02/2022 at 22:34, Section_31 said:

 

The calf of man. Already got it planned. Spike Island, steal a boat, tinned beef from Costco and tent.

Raul Moat over here.