Coronavirus

[Red Phoenix]

And in 2020, the entire world's knowledge of health, nutrition, biology, medicine and viruses led us to this in the UK as a pandemic response : hands, face, space.

 

Well at least that turned out well for big pharma.

[Jose Jones]

36 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Submitting to all of the draconian crap that's been offered by various governments since this pandemic started isn't freedom. We all know that governments have been in it to serve themselves and those like them since long before this pandemic started. Are we supposed to believe that coronavirus has made them change their ways?

 

It hasn't, and the responses from various governments around the world are authoritarian. They've made a huge mess of this since the start and they're still at it. And all of the stuff they've got in place to deal with this has handed them more control that they're probably not going to be too willing to let go of either.

 

 

Rubber bullets. Or according to The Guardian, rubber "pellets" : https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/21/victoria-covid-update-rubber-bullets-fired-on-second-day-of-construction-protests-which-block-freeway

Yeah I've seen the reports over the last couple of days about the measures the cops were using.

Not sure that mobile phone video shows any rubber bullets or anything though, sounds like someone hitting a radiator with a ruler and the pictures are so far away that you can't see anyone firing anything.

 

There has definitely been overreach by some governments in terms of use of emergency powers and lack of transparency that they have been happy to use.

 

However on the other side, those nations that have had the earliest adoption of stricter public health measures have controlled the virus the best and then been able to grant a lot more regular freedoms to people.

Those who have been promoting the "freedom" route have generally either then had to submit people to longer stretches of restrictions, or the freedom to get sick and die.

 

I think the main lesson to be learned from all this for future pandemics is that there needs to be more globally organised vaccine development and response.  That way you don't get rich countries at the front first, there is manufacturing and distribution available for the whole world, and a co-ordinated way and enough funding to try various vaccines and pick the best to develop.

 

More power for the WHO and CEPI I say!  

[Red Phoenix]

1 hour ago, Jose Jones said:

Yeah I've seen the reports over the last couple of days about the measures the cops were using.

Not sure that mobile phone video shows any rubber bullets or anything though, sounds like someone hitting a radiator with a ruler and the pictures are so far away that you can't see anyone firing anything.

 

The distance could explain the weird sound of it too, there's several other clips of them doing it online though and it's reported in the media too so it's definitely been happening.

 

1 hour ago, Jose Jones said:

There has definitely been overreach by some governments in terms of use of emergency powers and lack of transparency that they have been happy to use.

 

However on the other side, those nations that have had the earliest adoption of stricter public health measures have controlled the virus the best and then been able to grant a lot more regular freedoms to people.

Those who have been promoting the "freedom" route have generally either then had to submit people to longer stretches of restrictions, or the freedom to get sick and die.

 

I think the main lesson to be learned from all this for future pandemics is that there needs to be more globally organised vaccine development and response.  That way you don't get rich countries at the front first, there is manufacturing and distribution available for the whole world, and a co-ordinated way and enough funding to try various vaccines and pick the best to develop.

 

More power for the WHO and CEPI I say!  

 

I know some of the strictest measures have worked, I can remember linking an article on how China first responded several times on here too that detailed an extreme version. It's a lot of the other crap that's going on that gets at me though. I spent a while going on about ivermectin (sorry, horse paste) in here but it was when I started looking at other aspects of this as well that it looked so much worse.

 

Another thing to go along with vaccines could be better preparedness for this type of thing too with our general health/early treatment. I don't think it'd be too hard for the govs around the world to agree that certain food types, vitamins/minerals/supplements can make our immune systems work better for instance, so we can handle things like this without as many people ending up in hospital and/or dying. This is all assuming governments are focusing on the health of the population though, which probably isn't the case so often looking at the selection of clowns we have running so many countries.

 

[Jose Jones]

15 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

The distance could explain the weird sound of it too, there's several other clips of them doing it online though and it's reported in the media too so it's definitely been happening.

 

 

I know some of the strictest measures have worked, I can remember linking an article on how China first responded several times on here too that detailed an extreme version. It's a lot of the other crap that's going on that gets at me though. I spent a while going on about ivermectin (sorry, horse paste) in here but it was when I started looking at other aspects of this as well that it looked so much worse.

 

Another thing to go along with vaccines could be better preparedness for this type of thing too with our general health/early treatment. I don't think it'd be too hard for the govs around the world to agree that certain food types, vitamins/minerals/supplements can make our immune systems work better for instance, so we can handle things like this without as many people ending up in hospital and/or dying. This is all assuming governments are focusing on the health of the population though, which probably isn't the case so often looking at the selection of clowns we have running so many countries.

 

Everyone knows that healthy eating and regular exercise is the best way to keep people healthy on the whole.

Governments the world over, well mostly “western” world, have done loads to try to promote good nutrition and healthy behaviour.

The problem is “big food”, advertising, ease of processed food, both parents working and general ignoring of advice is winning out so far. Particularly in lower income households.

[Red Phoenix]

1 hour ago, Jose Jones said:

Everyone knows that healthy eating and regular exercise is the best way to keep people healthy on the whole.

Governments the world over, well mostly “western” world, have done loads to try to promote good nutrition and healthy behaviour.

The problem is “big food”, advertising, ease of processed food, both parents working and general ignoring of advice is winning out so far. Particularly in lower income households.

 

The govs and pharma corps have been part of the problem too I think. Nothing apart from the vaccine has been suggested and this seems to be a running thing : no vitamin or mineral, food or supplement can usually be accepted as helping with anything because it removes the need for a medicine that covers the same thing. And this has been a factor during this when we end up with "hands, face, space" but nothing at all about anything else.

 

It might have been excusable early on (didn't understand enough about the virus) but after actual vaccines have come out and we're approaching two years with this there should be other things along side them by now. If this is all accepted in the future though the excuse might be something like they thought recommending other things would've prevented people from taking the vaccine, instead of problems like the well known revolving door between the FDA and pharma corps which is likely repeated in many other countries as well.

 

[Jose Jones]

26 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

The govs and pharma corps have been part of the problem too I think. Nothing apart from the vaccine has been suggested and this seems to be a running thing : no vitamin or mineral, food or supplement can usually be accepted as helping with anything because it removes the need for a medicine that covers the same thing. And this has been a factor during this when we end up with "hands, face, space" but nothing at all about anything else.

 

It might have been excusable early on (didn't understand enough about the virus) but after actual vaccines have come out and we're approaching two years with this there should be other things along side them by now. If this is all accepted in the future though the excuse might be something like they thought recommending other things would've prevented people from taking the vaccine, instead of problems like the well known revolving door between the FDA and pharma corps which is likely repeated in many other countries as well.

 

I think this is just showing your information bias maybe - don't take that the wrong way.

 

There have been thousands of clinical trials run by hundreds of thousands of medical professionals in loads of countries around the world on Covid though.  Pretty much all of the trials have been done using "re-purposed" medicines that were already proven safe for humans, and a great many of them off patent.   All funded by governments of various descriptions.

 

It was the quickest way to get potential treatments ready, rather than having to start all the way from scratch.  Dexamethasone for example is also off patent and widely used in treating Covid.

 

If you look at the Clinical Trials database there are 11,000 different clinical trials on Covid on all sorts of things.  It's pretty much nonsense to say that only vaccines have been tried.

 

The only reason that governments take the lead on communicating about vaccines is that these are large public health

measures that require the majority of the population to get on board.  Once you are in hospital getting treated then there are no real choices about what happens (unless you participate in a clinical trial) you just get given the best available treatment.

 

There are very minor anti-treatment protestors, like those fellas who took the sick guy out of hospital in Ireland - but the information bias is very much focused on anti-vax.  Lack of imagination really.

[Rico1304]

We all know more fruit and veg and healthy exercise would have prevented;

 

polio

MEasles

Mumps 

Rubella

Diptheria

Tetanus

etc

etc

 

 

 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

8 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Show me the bit where I was advocating it ..... 

I am asking if you do. Your tone suggests you do. 
 

 

[Jose Jones]

11 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

We all know more fruit and veg and healthy exercise would have prevented;

 

polio

MEasles

Mumps 

Rubella

Diptheria

Tetanus

etc

etc

 

 

 

Well they obviously won't prevent infection but it would help with a better immune response right?  There's a reason why "underlying conditions" is a thing.

[Rico1304]

16 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

Well they obviously won't prevent infection but it would help with a better immune response right?  There's a reason why "underlying conditions" is a thing.

Are you talking about underlying conditions or eating fruit and veg and being treated with vitamins? 
 

That’s what RP is saying. I’d guess he has no idea what the treatment regimen is for people ALREADY in hospital so at that point very ill. The government spends billions every year telling us to eat healthily, stop smoking, drink less and exercise more.  So he’s talking shite again. 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

The government spends billions on telling people about a healthy lifestyle? 
 

Yeah, ok.

[Jose Jones]

6 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Are you talking about underlying conditions or eating fruit and veg and being treated with vitamins? 
 

That’s what RP is saying. I’d guess he has no idea what the treatment regimen is for people ALREADY in hospital so at that point very ill. The government spends billions every year telling us to eat healthily, stop smoking, drink less and exercise more.  So he’s talking shite again. 

Well a lot of "underlying conditions" that cause Covid to be worse, obesity for example, can be prevented by healthy, nutritious lifestyle.  

But agreed, the government does spend a lot of money on advising people to not be fat, lazy, junk food eating bastards, in countries without underlying healthy food cultures (and perhaps a preponderance for laissez faire capitalism) the messages don't seem to work so well.  

 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

1 minute ago, Jose Jones said:

Well a lot of "underlying conditions" that cause Covid to be worse, obesity for example, can be prevented by healthy, nutritious lifestyle.  

But agreed, the government does spend a lot of money on advising people to not be fat, lazy, junk food eating bastards, in countries without underlying healthy food cultures (and perhaps a preponderance for laissez faire capitalism) the messages don't seem to work so well.  

 

If we are spending billions on it like as Rico suggests, and the target audience are getting worse, then I think it’s time to re-assess the output for the money that’s being spent. 
 

 

[Red Phoenix]

No I'm talking about advice that could've been given to help the population have more of a resistance to the virus. To have better health overall and a better immune system as the pandemic hit us.

 

I'm talking about early treatment as well that could be available to the public in order to reduce the chances of ending up in hospital. I know rico has waded in thinking I'm on about people going to hospital and someone saying here's some fruit, veg and vitamins, but I'm not going to expect him to form an honest opinion on anything I say at this point. Maybe he's still wound up about horse paste or something.

 

I'm talking about what advice the government could've given us right at the start. And I can go right back to what I said further up : in 2020, the entire world's knowledge of health, nutrition, biology, medicine and viruses led us to this in the UK as a pandemic response : hands, face, space. That's what the public got to prepare with.

 

There's no way that was the best advice. It can't have been with the knowledge we have collectively.

 

I think there's also a tendency to believe the government were acting in good faith and that's all they had to go on, hands, face, space. We know they're corrupt though and that so many deaths could've been avoided for all types of reasons, this to me is simply another aspect of it. Not sure why all of the other shit they've pulled is accepted but this seems like too much.

[Jose Jones]

7 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

If we are spending billions on it like as Rico suggests, and the target audience are getting worse, then I think it’s time to re-assess the output for the money that’s being spent. 
 

 

Yeah, obviously not billions, and also junk food advertising would be higher. 

Also people with craply paid, insecure jobs, find it a lot harder to make healthy food choices.

[Jose Jones]

1 minute ago, Red Phoenix said:

No I'm talking about advice that could've been given to help the population have more of a resistance to the virus. To have better health overall and a better immune system as the pandemic hit us.

 

I'm talking about early treatment as well that could be available to the public in order to reduce the chances of ending up in hospital. I know rico has waded in thinking I'm on about people going to hospital and someone saying here's some fruit, veg and vitamins, but I'm not going to expect him to form an honest opinion on anything I say at this point. Maybe he's still wound up about horse paste or something.

 

I'm talking about what advice the government could've given us right at the start. And I can go right back to what I said further up : in 2020, the entire world's knowledge of health, nutrition, biology, medicine and viruses led us to this in the UK as a pandemic response : hands, face, space. That's what the public got to prepare with.

 

There's no way that was the best advice. It can't have been with the knowledge we have collectively.

 

I think there's also a tendency to believe the government were acting in good faith and that's all they had to go on, hands, face, space. We know they're corrupt though and that so many deaths could've been avoided, this to me is simply another aspect of it. Not sure why all of the other shit they've pulled is accepted but this seems like too much.

I am pretty sure you are being disingenuous if you think the entire UK pandemic response was "hands, face, space".

[Rico1304]

4 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

Yeah, obviously not billions, and also junk food advertising would be higher. 

Also people with craply paid, insecure jobs, find it a lot harder to make healthy food choices.

Apologies, it’s about £35m.  

[Red Phoenix]

7 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

I am pretty sure you are being disingenuous if you think the entire UK pandemic response was "hands, face, space".

 

I'm meaning that it was the main type of message to the public. There was no real advice for anything that could've actually helped us in the way of vitamins, minerals, supplements, food, drinks, medicines. Or if there was I missed it, or I've forgotten it.

 

Maybe someone can link strawhead giving some of that advice in a daily press conference? Or some government messages suggesting some of it?

[Skidfingers McGonical]

11 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

Yeah, obviously not billions, and also junk food advertising would be higher. 

Also people with craply paid, insecure jobs, find it a lot harder to make healthy food choices.

General food advertising is at nearly £1 billion a year, and the change4life campaign spends £3.2 million on media advertising. It doesn’t stand a chance. 

 

 

[Rico1304]

Why would you have listened to anything that the government said? You’ve already said they are completely dishonest.  
 

Anyway. 
 

 

[Rico1304]

Just now, Skidfingers McGonical said:

General food advertising is at nearly £1 billion a year, and the change for life campaign spends £3.2 million on media advertising. It doesn’t stand a chance. 

 

 

That’s one campaign.  The total budget was about £35m. 

[Red Phoenix]

4 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Why would you have listened to anything that the government said? You’ve already said they are completely dishonest.  
 

Anyway. 
 

 

 

You're absolutely obsessed with horse paste aren't you? I've tried to move on but you're still going on about it. I don't give a shit what Roundup guy says (who's also fucking obsessed). He's one of the last people I'd believe on anything related to that subject.

 

Note : I'm saying horse paste with humour, I haven't flipped on it. But I really have moved on from reading much about it, there's so much other stuff than that going on.

[Rico1304]

Just now, Red Phoenix said:

 

You're absolutely obsessed with horse paste aren't you? I've tried to move on but you're still going on about it. I don't give a shit what Roundup guy says (who's also fucking obsessed). He's one of the last people I'd believe on anything related to that subject.

No, I’m not obsessed with it.  I’m fascinated in how a bunch of tinfoil hat wearing morons have hitched their wagon to a treatment that’s been pushed by charlatans and grifters and despite all the evidence still hold onto the idea it’ll work.  If a single one of the studies into the vaccine had been fraudulent it would have stopped it dead. This stuff is flying off the shelves. 
 

As you may be aware I’m fascinated by conspiracy theory nutters like you.  

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Just now, Rico1304 said:

That’s one campaign.  The total budget was about £35m. 

Thats quite the difference to the billions you initially pulled out your arse. 
 

£3.2 million in the Change4Life media advertising doesn’t stand a chance against nearly a billion quid of advertising that also goes against its core message.

 

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Thats quite the difference to the billions you initially pulled out your arse. 
 

£3.2 million in the Change4Life media advertising doesn’t stand a chance against nearly a billion quid of advertising that also goes against its core message.

 

Yes, it’s a long way out. If you scrolled up you’d see I apologised and corrected myself.