Wearing a poppy perpetuates the war machine... discuss

[Trumo]

We've had this discussion before.

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/index.php?/topic/95115-the-poppy-appeal/

 

I posted the following at the time:

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/index.php?/topic/95115-the-poppy-appeal/?p=2819707

 

I've just posted about this on the FF thread. You can be respectful to those that lost their lives WITHOUT the need to buy a poppy. However, too many do-gooders want to make a big deal out of what is really a small but symbolic gesture, and so all of a sudden you get people in the media and on social networking sites claiming that those who are against the poppy appeal or choose not to wear one as being disrespectful to those who lost their lives. Maybe it's just the media age. 

[xerxes]

Poppy Day inevitably means different things to different generations.

 

Remembering those who gave up their lives to senseless laughter in what was essentially a political failure for WW1 strikes me as wise.

 

Few could argue that the defeat of Nazi ideology falls into that awakward category of " a just war".

 

I share the reservations of those who question our military involvement in most post WW2 conflicts. Yet at the very least, it raises the debate annually, which is a good thing.

 

In answer to the OP it does not perpetuate the war machine, it questions it- and the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

[Elmyn Noos]

I propose that anyone who doesn't wear an eye patch to commemorate those who gave up their lives in the Battle of Hastings is a heartless thoughtess cunt.

 

I wear one, not so much because of what my peers think, but there are still plenty of people around who gave a lot in the war. I'd like them to know that I am aware of that, and so it's simply a nod to say "appreciated" (and it is).

 

I've had family members involved in the war, and friends who have fought in more recent wars. I can't say I'm compelled to wear on for them (which might seem strange). I don't consider soldiers to be heroes, although I expect a few genuinely are. I just think many (particularly in WWII) gave and witnessed far more than they ever really bargained on. So the poppy is my way of tipping a hat to them once a year.

Really? The war finished almost 70 years ago. Assuming anyone who gave any meaningful contribution to it must have been at least 16 years old or thereabouts, at best we are looking at a small handful of 85 to 90 year old people who have been getting our gratitude for the last 70 years. Talk about fucking milking it.

 

Do you wear an eye-patch once a year to commemorate those who gave their lives at the Battle of Hastings?

[Spy Bee]

In answer to the OP it does not perpetuate the war machine, it questions it- and the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

 ”He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.”  Ben Franklin

 

I don't agree, I absolutely think it is used to perpetuate war. 

[xerxes]

 ”He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.”  Ben Franklin

 

I don't agree, I absolutely think it is used to perpetuate war. 

Indisputably it raises the question.

 

i respect your view that as a result it perpetuates it, but only insofar as it acts as a rallying point from which wars can be justified.

 

As an aside, the Franklin quote is hoplessly flawed in my view, and maybe deserves a thread on its own?

[Tony Moanero]

I propose that anyone who doesn't wear an eye patch to commemorate those who gave up their lives in the Battle of Hastings is a heartless thoughtess cunt.

 

Really? The war finished almost 70 years ago. Assuming anyone who gave any meaningful contribution to it must have been at least 16 years old or thereabouts, at best we are looking at a small handful of 85 to 90 year old people who have been getting our gratitude for the last 70 years. Talk about fucking milking it.

 

. 

Fucking boring, this. Why don't you give it a rest?

 

You choose not to make a donation and wear a poppy, others do. Just leave it at that. There's fuck all worth discussing.

[FanchesterCity]

I propose that anyone who doesn't wear an eye patch to commemorate those who gave up their lives in the Battle of Hastings is a heartless thoughtess cunt.

 

Really? The war finished almost 70 years ago. Assuming anyone who gave any meaningful contribution to it must have been at least 16 years old or thereabouts, at best we are looking at a small handful of 85 to 90 year old people who have been getting our gratitude for the last 70 years. Talk about fucking milking it.

 

Do you wear an eye-patch once a year to commemorate those who gave their lives at the Battle of Hastings?

 

 

1) 68 years ago. If they were 18, they'd be 86 now. Plenty of 86 year olds around. Approximately 1.5 million of them

2) If you're grateful, you're grateful. How can you be less grateful over time? You might choose not to mark it, but you're no less grateful.

3) How long do you think it's appropriate to remember the 96? (is there a time frame on it?)

 

As long as there is ONE person still around who contributed, I'll be more than happy to pay my respects.

[neko]

I've been to the Battle of Hastings site, Noos.

 

No eye patch at the time though - I was riding my bike around England.

[Jairzinho]

I wear one, not so much because of what my peers think, but there are still plenty of people around who gave a lot in the war. I'd like them to know that I am aware of that, and so it's simply a nod to say "appreciated" (and it is).

 

I've had family members involved in the war, and friends who have fought in more recent wars. I can't say I'm compelled to wear on for them (which might seem strange). I don't consider soldiers to be heroes, although I expect a few genuinely are. I just think many (particularly in WWII) gave and witnessed far more than they ever really bargained on. So the poppy is my way of tipping a hat to them once a year.

 

This is pretty much why I wear one.

 

What I fucking detest is people using Remembrance day, and the week or two leading up to it, as an excuse to spout their horrible bigoted views on Britain. The amount of shit I've seen on facebook, and indeed conversations in "real" life, along the lines of "so sad how their generation is treated, yet we give millions to Bulgarian immigrants", etc.

[xerxes]

What I fucking detest is people using Remembrance day, and the week or two leading up to it, as an excuse to spout their horrible bigoted views on Britain. The amount of shit I've seen on facebook, and indeed conversations in "real" life, along the lines of "so sad how their generation is treated, yet we give millions to Bulgarian immigrants", etc.

Surely tolerant debate, and a diversity of views,is part of the freedom we are celebrating?

 

There is much that is wrong with modern treatment of war. I hate the way that the news is sanistised "bcause the pictures are too distressing"- well maybe if a fw more people WERE distressed, some of our war mongering would stop.

[Jairzinho]

Surely tolerant debate, and a diversity of views,is part of the freedom we are celebrating?

 

There is much that is wrong with modern treatment of war. I hate the way that the news is sanistised "bcause the pictures are too distressing"- well maybe if a fw more people WERE distressed, some of our war mongering would stop.

 

I'm certainly not celebrating those fucking cunts.

[Spy Bee]

People of the current times buy a poppy and support 'our brave heroes', they don't remember our fallen heroes, or they do, but as an after thought. They used to... It used to be a ceremony of remorse, of sadness and regret. A look back at the wasted young lives and the death of potential. I'd even suggest it was a symbol of peace at one time. The propaganda machine has stolen it, and steered it down a slightly different tangent. It would be admirable for it's cunning if it wasn't so utterly distasteful.

 

You'll hear the phrase "our brave boys" and alike, you'll hear the Help For Heroes thing and people get rapped up in it. "Yep I support West Ham, England and our soldiers!". They don't question the wars we are fighting in, they just go along with this tribal shite that is spouted by the usual suspects.

 

I think the two things should be absolutely distinct. I refuse to wear a poppy and I'm happy to explain my reasons to anybody who wishes to question me. If somebody wants to produce a white poppy as I have heard mooted as a symbol of peace and with funds goig to anybody effected by war I'd think again.

[Stu Monty]

How many people do you think walk into a supermarket, past the poppies, then past the front of store display for the new Modern Warfare game and connect the two in any way?

[Rico1304]

Only relevant thread I can think of but any of you watch the Iceland program on BBC2? Well the massive Red Devil who jumped into the party at the end is a friend of my mate who was in the paras, his name is Billy and he's a great bloke. His military career has involved jumping out of planes at air shows all over the world and then retiring to the nearest bar in his bright red suit and beret where he picks up and fucks the fittest local bird he can find.

[General Dryness]

Only relevant thread I can think of but any of you watch the Iceland program on BBC2? Well the massive Red Devil who jumped into the party at the end is a friend of my mate who was in the paras, his name is Billy and he's a great bloke. His military career has involved jumping out of planes at air shows all over the world and then retiring to the nearest bar in his bright red suit and beret where he picks up and fucks the fittest local bird he can find.

 

Great story bro.

 

Although my "Fishy Fanny" thread would have been about as relevant a place to post it.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Does "No it doesn't" count as a discussion?

[Carvalho Diablo]

Does "No it doesn't" count as a discussion?

 

"Yes it does".

[Anubis]

Swore I wouldn't enter this arena again, but here goes.

 

I always remember those who gave their lives, and in the case of one of my great uncles, sanity, by observing the silence - even by pulling over if driving.

 

I will not wear a poppy. The Poppy has, for me, been hijacked by The British Legion. For reasons I've gone into in the past I find tbe organisation repugnant, and will not give them a penny. I will certainly not give in to their attempts at emotional blackmail/poppy fascism. I also find repugnant the poppy competativeness that's sprung up - bigger poppy's on cars, bling poppy's - and the smug 'look, I care more than you' attitude that accompanies it. Yeh, nothing says I care about sacrafice more than dropping a few thousand quid to a private jewellers for a diamond poppy.

 

I'm happy I can honour those who fought in WWII without the need to wear one, thanks, and I don't see my respect as being less for it. If others do, that's their fucked-up problem.

[Pureblood]

It's all just stuff what happened in the past.

[VladimirIlyich]

It would be nice if there was a new coloured poppy to separate the post 1945 wars to the pre and inclusive ones.

I suggest its black to commemorate the stuff that has caused their injuries and deaths.

[Elmyn Noos]

Fucking boring, this. Why don't you give it a rest?

 

You choose not to make a donation and wear a poppy, others do. Just leave it at that. There's fuck all worth discussing.

Clearly there is a discussion to be had as this topic gets raised every year and divides opinion. I'm not trying to stoke any fires here, all I'm saying is that by and large, people that wear poppies are, at the very least, ignorant cunts. This is actually not a bad a thing as I've often thought that if thick bastards were made to identify themselves in some way by wearing some sort of emblem, they'd be easier to avoid having to interact with. Perhaps the poppy should be an all year round thing.

[Elmyn Noos]

1) 68 years ago. If they were 18, they'd be 86 now. Plenty of 86 year olds around. Approximately 1.5 million of them

2) If you're grateful, you're grateful. How can you be less grateful over time? You might choose not to mark it, but you're no less grateful.

3) How long do you think it's appropriate to remember the 96? (is there a time frame on it?)

 

As long as there is ONE person still around who contributed, I'll be more than happy to pay my respects.

1) 68 is almost 70. 86 is between 85 and 90. Of the 1.5 million (you seem to be good with numbers, so I'll take your word for this) how many do you interact with in any way whatsoever who sacrificed something during the war? Of those, how many would rather you just gave them the money direct, or helped with their heating bill, or shopping, or acknowledged them in any way for the other 51 weeks of the year?

2) I'm not that grateful and if I ever was, it certainly does have a time limit on it. A mate lent me his chainsaw a couple of months ago. I thanked him when I returned it. I don't thank him every time I see him.

3) The 96. The last, or sometimes first, resort of the emotive, intellectually stunted retard on this forum. What the fuck has the 96 got to do with this, you enormous fucking bellend?

[Robbo29]

Surely this is just up to the individual? if someone buys one, its up to him, would not ridicule anyone for not wearing one or for wearing one. Saw Paxman on Graham Norton last week, thought he was good, is doing book/tv series on WW1. Ridicule Cameron for wanting to "celebtate" 100 years passing of the start of the "Great War" not usualy a fan of his, but have to say he came accross well, in my humble opinion

[Tony Moanero]

Noos, what a load of shite. To suggest that most people who wear poppies are ignorant bastards is daft. Yes, plenty of bellends do wear poppies, but do you know what? Plenty of bellends don't.

[Tony Moanero]

Good post, Robbo.