Captain Carragher your Club needs you!

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Not at all but I think the minority on here that is now turning into a majority will be willing to take a chance on things improving under a new manager.

 

At least a new manager would totally unite the fans again, a bit like when GH left and Rafa first took over in fact.

 

It's always the case though John, until those who were unhappy with the previous manager start to shout out against the man who replaced their previous point of displeasure. It ends up being a vicious circle. It seems 5 years is a time frame for everything.

 

I personally would give the manager one more season to right the many, many, many wrongs of this season. If he fails then yes get rid.

[YNWA12]

Whenever I watch Gerrard for England he hardly looks interested in playing for them either. Even when he was captain last time against Egypt. I don't think he likes playing on the left (doesn't he call it the graveyard shift?) and that whole spiel about him and Lampard not being compatible. I remember some of his matches in the last World Cup where it seemed like he was just wandering around the pitch for 70% of the match. Sure, he has the occasional game where plays like the Gerrard we all know, but most of the time not really.

[Juan Galonso]

It's always the case though John, until those who were unhappy with the previous manager start to shout out against the man who replaced their previous point of displeasure. It ends up being a vicious circle. It seems 5 years is a time frame for everything.

 

I personally would give the manager one more season to right the many, many, many wrongs of this season. If he fails then yes get rid.

 

We have made that mistake before though Mike kept managers on longer than we should. Our last three in fact. Souness should have gone at the end of 92-93 some would even argue at the end of 91-92. Evans should in hindsight have gone at the end of the 4th in a 2 horse race season 96-97 and Houllier should have gone at the end of 02-03 and bizarrely enough I wanted the latter two to have another year to see if they could right the wrongs but it didn't happen and things got worse.

 

Once the deep malaise starts it is nigh on impossible to get it back.

[Spy Bee]

Once the deep malaise starts it is nigh on impossible to get it back.

Me and John never agree, but I do think we are very close to the point of no return.

 

I know Rafa won the league, finished fifth and then won the league in three consecutive seasons in Spain, but I'm not sure I really believe he can turn this around anymore.

[RobC]

Agreed. I fail to see how playing off the main striker, and being released of all his normal midfield duties - ie, tracking back etc - can be seen as a "tactical straightjacket".

 

Lack of effort cannot be put down as the managers' fault - no matter how much some would like it to be.

 

The whole team's straightjacket is effecting Gerrard's game, he doesn't get the ball enough and when he does there's no support.

I don't think it's lack of effort, it's just he can't get in the game and gets pissed off.

1. The defensive midfielders don't/can't release the ball quick enough to start attacks through the centre.

2. Our wide players are not natural wingers and simply too slow, they usually end up playing the ball back inside which then gets played back to a defender or back to the winger again and again and again.

3. Our centre backs and Insua have been hoofing the ball upfront not to feet, Torres can chase their balls, but Gerrard has at least 4 men in front of him.

 

We're really in need of playing an attacking centre mid, it's killing us.

But then again when Gerrard moved back for 10 mins against Arsenal and was spraying balls around, Kuyt couldn't control them.

[KopOut]

Carragher has stated he has no problems leaving Liverpool. Not Captain material I dont think.

[Anubis]

I just think he's in shit form. I have no idea why but he's human and thus he'll have bad spells.

 

It happens most seasons and the same people come out and call for him to be sold etc, which is fair enough, different players rub up different kinds of people in different ways, that's just life.

 

I certainly don't think he's not trying though. Last season when he was bang in form, it wasn't because he was running all over the place, it was because he was creating goals and scoring goals. Right now he isn't.

 

What was the first thing Rafa said when he came to Liverpool? 'Gerrard runs too much'.

 

 

I think that's fair commentary. As poor as he was on Thursday he was still covering the pitch, but just not doing it effectively. You can tell when he;s not playing well because he starts looking for the Hollywood passes, as he has done recently.

 

I can't believe he'd deliberately not put the effort in to undermine the manager, whether they saw eye to eye or not. Because if he did, he'd give himself a serious problem with any future manager. No top class manager will accept having an influence like that in the dressing room.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

I think if you took it off Stevie one of two thing's could happen.His form would go worse but more likely he would see it as apersonal thing and would leave.

If I had to give it to another then either Nando or Mascher.

Mascher being my choice,think he would be ideal choice and it might make him stay here as well.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

We have made that mistake before though Mike kept managers on longer than we should. Our last three in fact. Souness should have gone at the end of 92-93 some would even argue at the end of 91-92. Evans should in hindsight have gone at the end of the 4th in a 2 horse race season 96-97 and Houllier should have gone at the end of 02-03 and bizarrely enough I wanted the latter two to have another year to see if they could right the wrongs but it didn't happen and things got worse.

 

Once the deep malaise starts it is nigh on impossible to get it back.

 

Don't disagree with any of that John, I felt the exact same in '04. I think it's the Fear Factor in that we won't get out of this current mess.

 

I have a little faith left in Rafa, don't know why but I just have.

[WaltonRed]

You could give him ten seasons and he'll not turn it around.

 

Souness, Evans and Houllier all given longer than we should of given them.

 

He's had long enough and this is simply not good enough.

 

Time for a change, at least then we can be united behind him because the way i see it the Yanks are here for ages.

[DonaldDonaldson]

Carragher is agitating behind the scenes to get rid of the Manager just so his career can be extended, so why hand over the armband to a snide that is purely looking after number one?

 

Coupled with the fact that he's a terrible player that shouldn't even be on the pitch, it would be a retrogade step.

[WaltonRed]

Get to fuck Donald you WUM

[Juan Galonso]

Carragher is agitating behind the scenes to get rid of the Manager just so his career can be extended, so why hand over the armband to a snide that is purely looking after number one?

 

Coupled with the fact that he's a terrible player that shouldn't even be on the pitch, it would be a retrogade step.

 

You don't play 600 odd games for Liverpool Football Club being a ''terrible player''. A totally ridiculous thing to say.

[DonaldDonaldson]

Get to fuck Donald you WUM

 

And there are also the past histrionics when the Manager had the temerity to move Carragher to right back; you'd think that such a 'dedicated servant' would be more than happy to help out instead of getting a cob-on and whining to his media stooge.

[WaltonRed]

I'd moan as well.

 

He's not a full back is he?

[DonaldDonaldson]

You don't play 600 odd games for Liverpool Football Club being a ''terrible player''. A totally ridiculous thing to say.

 

We've been nowhere near winning the league, so the qualifications to get into, and stay in, the team are a lot lower than they were when we were regular league winners.

[PaulMcC]

Donaldson i full of shit but i don't get why it's all right for Carra to moan, and Gerrard to sulk but anyone else will get crucified for it.

[WaltonRed]

If the moan is justified i'd let anyone off with it.

 

I'd be moaning non stop if I was in that dressing room at the minute.

[PaulMcC]

Seeing he played loads of his career as a full back i think he should just get on with it.

[hamstrung]

Watch the 2nd half of the Blackburn game and tell me Gerrard played his natural game that 2nd half.

 

We had the lead at half time. He didn't break ahead of the play once in the 2nd half. I don't think he did that through choiced put it that way.

 

I'd rather not.

 

Its perfectly acceptable to say he's playing shit. Not everything has to be Benitez's fault. Gerrard has managed to wriggle free from the confines of his straitjacket pretty well up to this season. Nor does it explain his inability to get the basics right, and his piss-poor attitude to his team mates. I love Gerrard, but I am inclined to agree with AWS. When he's off form, it brings the whole team down.

 

There's a lot wrong with the team and the club right now. Benitez is culpable, but so are plenty of others. Denying that, or trying to shoehorn it all at the managers feet, is just a bit silly.

[JohnnyH]

If the moan is justified i'd let anyone off with it.

 

I'd be moaning non stop if I was in that dressing room at the minute.

 

But that makes it sound like you don't think the players have any responsibility in this?

 

We came off a season of which the final third was some of the best football we've played in decades, with the previous part of the season no different to what we see in every Manc title winning season where they play great for part and scrape through the rest with battling performances in the other part (how may 1-0s under Cantona or Keane dragging them through half the season or Ronaldo 1-0s recently)

 

So how did we start from the very first game playing utter turgid shite. It's not all down to the manager. Or are you saying it's solely Rafas fault? That just all seems too simple to me.

[jackofdk]

Gerrard is the least of our worries. Every player bar Pepe underperforms more often than not and the buck only stops one place when things go that way: The manager.

 

I love you Rafa, and thank you for the good times, but ciao.

[Iantn]

We've got 4 world class players at the club and only one hasn't at all produced anything like his best game all season.

 

Torres has returned 13 in 17 league games and although he's had a good moan on the pitch it's no more than anyone of us would be doing right now.

 

Mascherano had his head up his arse for the first couple of months. Many threads on here basically read 'fuck off to Barca'. Since the Argies got the World Cup he's been fuckin' immense and a major reason we've started to keep more and more clean sheets.

 

Reina has been the player of the season. Head and fuckin' shoulders above the rest.

 

Gerrard has done what we've done, regressed badly this year. I hope that next season both of us can return to what we was just 12 months ago but I'm not sure how easy a turnaround it fully is. Especially for Gerrard.

 

He seems to be back to this "I've gotta play centre midfield" shite again. It really is like we've been here before. A boss season on the right of midfield was followed by him looking a pure pissed off fella at playing there. A boss season off Torres followed by....

 

I'll back anyone who puts their all into wearing the shirt but I don't think he currently is. Not even close to. Even Babel looked more arsed than him on Thursday night!

[andrew78]

Then, if true, that's a complete fucking disgrace (and again, I emphasise the 'if' part, cos no-one except Gerrard knows exactly what's going through his mind).

 

But there seems to be a hypocrisy on these boards when it comes to the demarkation between the manager and his players, and nowhere is this more obvious than when it comes to Steven Gerrard.

 

For example, I keep reading about how Gerrard deserves some slack for playing shit because of all the great games he's played, the great goals he's scored, and all the times he's got us out of the shit ("How dare you slag off Steven Gerrard," I hear people say).

 

Well what about all the games won by the tactical decisions of Benitez?

 

I keep hearing how Gerrard is only playing shit because he dislikes the current manager so much.

 

Yet Benitez shouldn't let his differences with the regime above him affect his ability to manage whatsoever.

 

I keep hearing how Benitez wormed and tricked his way to a super-duper undeserved contract last year.

 

Yet no-one mentions the fact he couldn't buy certain players in the summer because of payrises to a group of players, which included Steven Gerrard.

 

I hear how no-one should expect Gerrard to suddenly become a captain who gees players up with an arm round the shoulder, because Gerrard's never been that sort of skipper.

 

Yet Benitez needs to change his cold and ruthless distance NOW, the stubborn motherfucker.

 

I could go on. The point here isn't that Benitez hasn't got flaws - he clearly has - but there seems to be a view round here lately that all the shit flies in one direction and all roads of blame lead to Benitez. In terms of who'll pay with their job, this is sadly true (as is football's wont) - but it doesn't mean he's responsible for every single thing that happens to Liverpool Football Club.

 

Thank fuck they did use the money on contracts,fuck no,s who he would have bought.Or he did buy someone 20 fucking mill for a player that carnt play in certain games or on certain pitches FUCKING JOKE

[WaltonRed]

But that makes it sound like you don't think the players have any responsibility in this?

 

We came off a season of which the final third was some of the best football we've played in decades, with the previous part of the season no different to what we see in every Manc title winning season where they play great for part and scrape through the rest with battling performances in the other part (how may 1-0s under Cantona or Keane dragging them through half the season or Ronaldo 1-0s recently)

 

So how did we start from the very first game playing utter turgid shite. It's not all down to the manager. Or are you saying it's solely Rafas fault? That just all seems too simple to me.

 

Its not all his fault no, but the buck stops with him in my eyes.