Corruption?

[Lurtz]

1 minute ago, Pete said:

You should also ask if people are fine with the head of the PGMOL enjoying corporate hospitality at Old Trafford. As this too stinks. 

Of course it does. They're incompetent and corrupt. That one incident of releasing audio for the Diaz goal doesn't prove they're not corrupt. None of that explains the other dozens of decisions going against us game after game since Klopp v Tierney. 

[Carra_is_legend]

If they are biased against a certain manager or team or players then they are corrupt.

 

Of course they are biased.

[Carra_is_legend]

.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Anyone got a link to that tomkins article. Mad that it's 301 games since a team got a second yellow against us and in that time every other team has had between 5 and 15, that's a bit of an anomaly considering how much of the ball we as a side have in games, you only have to look at the fouls against Salah or not given to see he is 100 percent reffed with a bias against, the stats just prove it massively I've seen him dragged to the floor in a headlock. The PGMOL interprets incidencts according to its members bias. We have way to many Mancs who apparently support lower league clubs reffing us. Tierney shouldn't be with in a million miles of our games yet he always gets them. When we rubbed them up the wrong way its reflected in how they have reffed us.

[DaveT]

16 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Anyone got a link to that tomkins article. Mad that it's 301 games since a team got a second yellow against us and in that time every other team has had between 5 and 15, that's a bit of an anomaly considering how much of the ball we as a side have in games, you only have to look at the fouls against Salah or not given to see he is 100 percent reffed with a bias against, the stats just prove it massively I've seen him dragged to the floor in a headlock. The PGMOL interprets incidencts according to its members bias. We have way to many Mancs who apparently support lower league clubs reffing us. Tierney shouldn't be with in a million miles of our games yet he always gets them. When we rubbed them up the wrong way its reflected in how they have reffed us.

https://tomkinstimes.substack.com/p/objective-data-liverpool-are-refereed
This one? The 2nd yellow stat isn’t evidence of anything in itself, but as part of a bigger picture, however…..

Rodri should arguably have had a 2nd yellow against us last season at the Etihad….. but Simon Hooper (yes, him) chose not to. Anthony Taylor doesn’t think a headlock/judo throw isn’t a foul….. as long as Mo Salah is the victim. Come Sunday, Hooper and Taylor will have refereed 4 of our 8 games (50%). Tierney has been involved once this season…. and failed to overturn the Mac Allister red. Taylor and Tierney refereed 12 out of 38 of our games last season. All of these facts, taken individually, can be easily rationalised. But taken as a whole, ….. well, hopefully (surely?) the club are looking at this bigger picture.

[magicrat]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

You should also ask if people are fine with the head of the PGMOL enjoying corporate hospitality at Old Trafford. As this too stinks. 

Fucking hell, lets stick how they fail at their jobs not worry about them getting a meal before the game.  Food at footie grounds , even the corporate hospitality, is usually bang average anyway. If you have any evidence to show they have been caught necking a few bottles of Old Toilet Claret then you have a point.

[Pete]

9 minutes ago, magicrat said:

Fucking hell, lets stick how they fail at their jobs not worry about them getting a meal before the game.  Food at footie grounds , even the corporate hospitality, is usually bang average anyway. If you have any evidence to show they have been caught necking a few bottles of Old Toilet Claret then you have a point.

Exhibit A,  M'lord.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12409095/PGMOL-head-Howard-Webb-representatives-Jonathan-Moss-Martin-Atkinsons-Man-Uniteds-1-0-victory-against-Wolves-Old-Traffords-corporate-seating-apologising-Gary-ONeil-controversial-VAR-decision.html

https://www.caughtoffside.com/2023/08/15/rival-fans-fume-as-head-of-the-pgmol-howard-webb-spotted-in-hospitality-at-old-trafford-amid-controversial-decision/
 

[gkmacca]

They'd be a lot better off if they abandoned their neurotic obsession with claiming to be impartial. Academics, for example, are trained to acknowledge that they are prone to unconscious bias, and simply have certain methods that seek to minimise that. It's quite possible to believe that refs don't act with a conscious bias during games, but it's simply unbelievable to assume that they never do so unconsciously, and it doesn't help them or anyone else to keep insisting otherwise. If they finally acknowledged it then they could start working on controlling it.

[Bobby Hundreds]

1 hour ago, DaveT said:

https://tomkinstimes.substack.com/p/objective-data-liverpool-are-refereed
This one? The 2nd yellow stat isn’t evidence of anything in itself, but as part of a bigger picture, however…..

Rodri should arguably have had a 2nd yellow against us last season at the Etihad….. but Simon Hooper (yes, him) chose not to. Anthony Taylor doesn’t think a headlock/judo throw isn’t a foul….. as long as Mo Salah is the victim. Come Sunday, Hooper and Taylor will have refereed 4 of our 8 games (50%). Tierney has been involved once this season…. and failed to overturn the Mac Allister red. Taylor and Tierney refereed 12 out of 38 of our games last season. All of these facts, taken individually, can be easily rationalised. But taken as a whole, ….. well, hopefully (surely?) the club are looking at this bigger picture.

Teirney should not be reffing our games.

[No2]

5 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Teirney should not be reffing our games.

We should offer up a swap deal, we'll allow Darren England back in but Tierney can fuck off.

[Bobby Hundreds]

10 minutes ago, No2 said:

We should offer up a swap deal, we'll allow Darren England back in but Tierney can fuck off.

Nah Darren England is dodgy as fuck too. All I heard from that Audio is a man trying to filibuster.

[No2]

15 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Nah Darren England is dodgy as fuck too. All I heard from that Audio is a man trying to filibuster.

Yeah but we also heard he's a fucking weasel. We could do what we wanted and he wouldn't say boo.

[Preston Red]

1 hour ago, gkmacca said:

They'd be a lot better off if they abandoned their neurotic obsession with claiming to be impartial. Academics, for example, are trained to acknowledge that they are prone to unconscious bias, and simply have certain methods that seek to minimise that. It's quite possible to believe that refs don't act with a conscious bias during games, but it's simply unbelievable to assume that they never do so unconsciously, and it doesn't help them or anyone else to keep insisting otherwise. If they finally acknowledged it then they could start working on controlling it.

 

4:42 onwards

[Megadrive Man]

Panel says Jota red card for Liverpool at Spurs was incorrect - ESPN

 

The Premier League's Independent Key Match Incidents Panel has ruled Diogo Jota should not have been sent off in Liverpool's controversial 2-1 defeat at Tottenham Hotspur on Saturday, ESPN can reveal.

Jota was shown the red card after two challenges in little more than a minute, both on Spurs defender Destiny Udogie.

 

ESPN has seen the assessments of the panel for week seven, detailing that the second tackle on Udogie in the 69th minute was not worthy of a yellow card from referee Simon Hooper.

The report stated that "the majority deemed the decision as incorrect as they felt it did not meet the threshold for a yellow card," with the five members voting 3-2 against a booking.

The panel has five members, made up of three former players and/coaches, plus one representative each from the Premier League and PGMOL.

At the time, few observers questioned the merits of Jota's second caution, which left the Reds with nine men for the rest of the game. It was the first booking, when Udogie's trailing leg had clipped the Portuguese forward's knee, that seemed more worthy of reassessment. However, the panel does not make judgements on the first yellow card if a player is dismissed for two bookable offences.

[Megadrive Man]

with the five members voting 3-2 against a booking.

The panel has five members, made up of three former players and/coaches, plus one representative each from the Premier League and PGMOL.

 

I wonder if anybody can guess the voting split?

[Mudface]

And yet it seem the ban will still stand. What the fuck is going on?

 

 

 

[Moo]

They don't overturn reds for two yellows. They should though.  They should also be subject to a VAR check too as straight reds are, any red card should be checked. While we have the bit between the teeth we should be pushing for such changes.

[Bobby Hundreds]

1 hour ago, Mudface said:

And yet it seem the ban will still stand. What the fuck is going on?

 

 

 

The entire match was a travesty in officiating from start to finish, no wonder spurs celebrated they were gifted 3 points against a team far superior to them.

[Red74]

1 hour ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

The entire match was a travesty in officiating from start to finish, no wonder spurs celebrated they were gifted 3 points against a team far superior to them.

Me and my lad have noticed that the refs can’t wait to book one of our players the first chance they get and that fat baldy quilt carried it on Saturday with pleasure.
 

These are conscious decisions being made against on and off the pitch. When you’ve got all the time you want to get a decision right in the var box and still come out with decisions like that and ignoring penalty claims knowing tbe tv companies have got your back is blatant corruption. Human error my arse 

[Lurtz]

It's utterly fucking laughable to think that they're not bent purely on the basis of that one bit of audio. 

[Chip Butty]

14 hours ago, Redder Lurtz said:

OK, so you're fine with my question then. OK. 

Mate, I’m not going to go into a big debate -  I made a statement, you replied and answered your own statement, in one. You’ve sort of done the same again above. 
if you think there are seems of corruption and skullduggery at every decision, fair do’s mate, I don’t. 
as I started with - they’re just fucking shit, in my eyes.
Corruption and conspiracy need a level of thinking, thought and nouse: I doubt any of them possess such attributes. 
 

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

5 hours ago, Moo said:

They don't overturn reds for two yellows. They should though.  They should also be subject to a VAR check too as straight reds are, any red card should be checked. While we have the bit between the teeth we should be pushing for such changes.

 

Personally I think VAR should be able to cancel yellows in game. Take for example the first Jota one, as soon as they see it's not even a foul, then just get on and tell the ref..if it's got to be the next break in play to recind it, that's fine. Better than playing the rest of the game with the yellow. But what stops them doing that is their reluctance to make their mates look shit. 

 

That style of panel i think should be the var set up. A 5 man team with just 1 ref. All 5 get a vote on if the ref has got a big thing wrong and if 3 say he has, then let VAR do its thing. 

[Razoray]

13 hours ago, DaveT said:

https://tomkinstimes.substack.com/p/objective-data-liverpool-are-refereed
This one? The 2nd yellow stat isn’t evidence of anything in itself, but as part of a bigger picture, however…..

Rodri should arguably have had a 2nd yellow against us last season at the Etihad….. but Simon Hooper (yes, him) chose not to. Anthony Taylor doesn’t think a headlock/judo throw isn’t a foul….. as long as Mo Salah is the victim. Come Sunday, Hooper and Taylor will have refereed 4 of our 8 games (50%). Tierney has been involved once this season…. and failed to overturn the Mac Allister red. Taylor and Tierney refereed 12 out of 38 of our games last season. All of these facts, taken individually, can be easily rationalised. But taken as a whole, ….. well, hopefully (surely?) the club are looking at this bigger picture.

No foul

[Lurtz]

6 hours ago, Chip Butty said:

Mate, I’m not going to go into a big debate -  I made a statement, you replied and answered your own statement, in one. You’ve sort of done the same again above. 
if you think there are seems of corruption and skullduggery at every decision, fair do’s mate, I don’t. 
as I started with - they’re just fucking shit, in my eyes.
Corruption and conspiracy need a level of thinking, thought and nouse: I doubt any of them possess such attributes. 
 

 

 

 

Fair enough mate, we'll agree to disagree albeit that we agree they are fucking shite!

[Razoray]

Anthony Taylor is the referee on Sunday. Since we won the title, this will be the sixteenth time he has refereed our game. Eleven of those have been away from home. We will have had 62 aways after Sunday and he will have reffed 11 of them - 18% is a very high percentage of games for one referee.

He will have refereed Liverpool in 16 of his 93 games since 2020 - 17%. It should average at 10%. 

He will have refereed Liverpool away in 11 of his 93 games since 2020 - 12%. It should average at 5%. 

 

 

These have been our opponents in the 11 away games

Man City

Newcastle 

Leicester

Leeds

Man Utd x2 

Chelsea x3

Everton

Brighton

 

Man City, Man United, Chelsea and Everton away are always difficult for us.

Leeds, Leicester, Newcastle and Brighton were/are all having superb seasons when we played them in the games above. 

Newcastle were 3rd when we played them.

Leicester they went 2nd after we played them.

Leeds were 9th after we played them.

Brighton are 3 points off top spot. 

 

The 4 home games that he has refereed us in that time were Spurs,  Chelsea, Wolves (9th) Man City and Brentford (9th). 

Every single game has been against a top 10 team, most of which have been against a top 4 rival.

 

In the 53 games that he has ever refereed Liverpool in the Premier League, he has given us more yellow cards per game average, than any of his 30 fellow refs. 

 

Is this just me being paranoid, enabled by my mistrust of PL officialdom after last weekend, or is it strange that he gets a high proportion of Liverpool games, never gets a Liverpool game against a struggling team and over two-thirds of them are away from Anfield? 

 

For the record, we have won just three (2 v Man Utd), drawn six and lost one of the 10 aways.

We have won four and drawn one of the 5 homes.