Chelsea 1 Liverpool 1 (Aug 13 2023)

[tlw content]

 

We should have seen this coming as we always draw with Chelsea. I had hoped that with us having a much more settled and familiar looking line up than them, plus having worked with the same manager for seven years rather than seven weeks we would have looked the more cohesive unit and that this would be enough for us to shade it, but that’s not how it played out.

 

Somehow, after a really impressive opening half hour, we looked like the team of strangers who had been thrown together. That was pretty disheartening to me. I'm under no illusions, I knew we’d be shite without the ball but I thought we’d have been much better than this when we had it.

 

How did we go from looking the way we did in the opening half an hour to looking like the way we did for the next hour? The second half was poor, we offered virtually nothing and it’s telling that by the end of the game none of the forwards who started the contest were still on the pitch. Gakpo and Jota were lucky to last as long as they did, and neither Diaz nor Salah can have any complaints at getting hooked either, although that didn’t stop Mo of course. I’ll get to that.

 

My expectation going into the game was really not high. I expected goals at both ends and was just hoping we’d have more in attack than Chelsea and that would be the difference. After all, their new star striker is out injured and we’ve got more forwards than we know what we can do with. Darwin was left on the bench but the other four were all shoehorned in with Gakpo playing in midfield.

 

He did that in pre-season a few times too, but I’m not really sure of the logic in selecting him over Jones. Given the way Curtis played over the last dozen games of last season I feel as though he’d earned the shirt and should have been allowed to start the season. We know Cody is a good footballer but he’s not a midfielder (not yet anyway, I think he can be) and Chelsea away is probably not the place to be experimenting, especially when you already have two new boys in the midfield four (one of whom was playing out of position).

 

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[Anubis]

You missed out Taylor getting in the way and allowing Chelsea to take possession 10 yards from our area.

[Dave D]

As you say, the optimism lasted half an hour and then it just looked like we were running on sand for some reason?

Last season we got excited with a handsome home win over Bournemouth- even we win it 10-0 on Saturday Im not sure it would fill me with any confidence

[Marcas]

Mac Allister is fine addition as is Szoboszlai. But our transfer ‘strategy’ is amateur hour, and that’s being kind. We’ve bid £60m for a kid we could’ve got for £50m less than a week ago; we’ve been humiliated by the Caicedo debacle and now every fucking club in the world knows how much many we have to spend and will extract every last penny. How did we go from the best at recruitment in Europe to this? Little did we know how how much Michael Edwards brought to the party…

[moin k]

Sadly, I think the Klopp glory years are well and truly over - they did not last long but it was definitely a fun ride. I think we are going to be very inconsistent again this season and we will be very luck to finish in the Top 4. City will win the league easily and all the other teams will also be inconsistent - it just depends if we will be more consistent then the others in the league depending on how Klopp chooses to rotate the players for the Europa League games. 

 

Our transfer window has been totally shambolic and the club looks a lot like how it did before Klopp took over - a bit of a mess. I’m a self-confessed arm-chair fan and I will be interested to see if some of the match-going fans start to turn on Klopp if we look like a total shit-show as the season progresses.
 
  

[dave u]

6 hours ago, Anubis said:

You missed out Taylor getting in the way and allowing Chelsea to take possession 10 yards from our area.

 

Yeah surely that should have been a drop ball. I know he didn't touch the ball and he didn't HAVE to give a drop ball, but morally that's what he should have done.

[dave u]

45 minutes ago, Moin K said:

Sadly, I think the Klopp glory years are well and truly over - they did not last long but it was definitely a fun ride. I think we are going to be very inconsistent again this season and we will be very luck to finish in the Top 4. City will win the league easily and all the other teams will also be inconsistent - it just depends if we will be more consistent then the others in the league depending on how Klopp chooses to rotate the players for the Europa League games. 

 

Our transfer window has been totally shambolic and the club looks a lot like how it did before Klopp took over - a bit of a mess. I’m a self-confessed arm-chair fan and I will be interested to see if some of the match-going fans start to turn on Klopp if we look like a total shit-show as the season progresses.
 
  

 

I think you're probably right. I also think there's no way the match going crowd ever turns on him. It would have to be really, REALLY bad for that to happen and he'd walk before it ever got to that point.

 

They may well turn on the owners, but not Klopp.

[beejay]

38 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

I think you're probably right. I also think there's no way the match going crowd ever turns on him. It would have to be really, REALLY bad for that to happen and he'd walk before it ever got to that point.

 

They may well turn on the owners, but not Klopp.

Yeah,  players first then owners well before the crowd turn on Jurgen. 

[jonnyp]

When Klopp brought in his energy and resolve to lift the malaise surrounding the club, it breathed new life, confidence, and belief into everything. Every element of the club responded to this because it was what we had all craved for so long. Klopp was initially supported in the rebuild and received a further boost to club resources from the Coutinho sale.

 

The club sadly, has rested on those mighty laurels and allowed another malaise to settle in and around the team. Klopp is now challenged to have to lift the gloom again, only this time it surrounds him too, so he cannot simply come in like before with the impetus of being a breath of fresh air. He needs a further boost again, one that can only come from FSG’s involvement through better management, planning, and investment.

 

Three weeks left to see if our custodians are up to matching club and fan ambition and prevent a malaise developing into a rot.

[sir roger]

The only positive I would add to the above is that a lot of the staleness has left and the first XI are pretty new and the likes of VVD and Trent have been given greater clout, so Jurgen at least should have a fresh audience to go at

[jonnyp]

I agree with your addition, and yeah, mine did read a little gloomy.
 

I did write it with a “I’m going to be glass half-full for these next 3 weeks”, but only because I can’t believe they could be so careless…….could they?

[razor]

Nice work, Dave.

 

A few things to add that I don't think you covered in the pod either:

 

Early in the game Szoboszlai showed great skill and speed to go past two players and drive into the box.  What a start that could have been if Jota hadn't have just nicked it off him.  He wouldn't have done that to Mo or Sadio.

 

I was concerned that Robbo lost a clear 50/50 in the second half.  It was one of those "pile in" to win it and the Chelsea player came out with it.  Sometimes that's just a random outcome based on the ball bouncing out, but more often than not it's the player that wanted it more that wins it.  Uncomfortable truth there.

 

And finally, I was looking forward to Darwin making the runs that I believed Brownie about - he said that he always makes good runs but doesn't get picked out.  I trust his opinion, but I didn't see that at all.  I saw straight runs down the middle that weren't deserving of a through ball (not that MacAllister was in a position to release him anyway if it had been a dangerous one.  I also never (? rarely maybe, but I would say ever) see Darwin win contested headers in the middle of the park from long balls/clearances.  He doesn't get anywhere near them.  He needs to do a lot better.  I really do have my doubts.

 

 

[stringvest]

I was really disappointed on the number of times Robertson turned his back on the attacking player who was shaping to cross the ball.  Any opposition studying that could use the tactic to run past him.  

[aws]

9 minutes ago, stringvest said:

I was really disappointed on the number of times Robertson turned his back on the attacking player who was shaping to cross the ball.  Any opposition studying that could use the tactic to run past him.  

This new system is doing him no favours. When he had free rein to charge forward, the chances he created more than made up for his defensive weaknesses but now we just have his defending to look at. 

[dave u]

Robbo's had his balls cut off by this new system. Also doesn't help these days that he's got Van Dijk next to him rather than someone like Konate who is actually helpful to a full back.

[Brownie]

1 hour ago, razor said:

Nice work, Dave.

 

A few things to add that I don't think you covered in the pod either:

 

Early in the game Szoboszlai showed great skill and speed to go past two players and drive into the box.  What a start that could have been if Jota hadn't have just nicked it off him.  He wouldn't have done that to Mo or Sadio.

 

I was concerned that Robbo lost a clear 50/50 in the second half.  It was one of those "pile in" to win it and the Chelsea player came out with it.  Sometimes that's just a random outcome based on the ball bouncing out, but more often than not it's the player that wanted it more that wins it.  Uncomfortable truth there.

 

And finally, I was looking forward to Darwin making the runs that I believed Brownie about - he said that he always makes good runs but doesn't get picked out.  I trust his opinion, but I didn't see that at all.  I saw straight runs down the middle that weren't deserving of a through ball (not that MacAllister was in a position to release him anyway if it had been a dangerous one.  I also never (? rarely maybe, but I would say ever) see Darwin win contested headers in the middle of the park from long balls/clearances.  He doesn't get anywhere near them.  He needs to do a lot better.  I really do have my doubts.

 

 

A couple of things on the Darwin point;

 

We need more than a cameo to judge it.

By the time he came on, Macca was playing the 6 and Dom was in the front 3. When those two are playing as the 8/10, then I think we’ll start to see what I was talking about.

[stringvest]

2 minutes ago, dave u said:

Robbo's had his balls cut off by this new system. Also doesn't help these days that he's got Van Dijk next to him rather than someone like Konate who is actually helpful to a full back.

 

Rather than the new system, he's not getting any support from his left sided teammates.  Diaz is no Mane, and Gakpo is certainly no Thiago in that regard either.

[Lovely Cushioned Header...]

Our transfer "team" scare me to death. Utterly lost for words how incompetent they've been. We'll probably resign Fabinho on loan.

[dave u]

15 minutes ago, stringvest said:

 

Rather than the new system, he's not getting any support from his left sided teammates.  Diaz is no Mane, and Gakpo is certainly no Thiago in that regard either.

 

Add Van Dijk to that list.

 

But it's the system too because he isn't allowed to rampage anymore and he plays further inside than he did in the glory days. We've taken away his strengths and are asking him to play to, I wouldn't call them weaknesses as such, but definitely the things he's not strongest at.

[stringvest]

8 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

Add Van Dijk to that list.

 

But it's the system too because he isn't allowed to rampage anymore and he plays further inside than he did in the glory days. We've taken away his strengths and are asking him to play to, I wouldn't call them weaknesses as such, but definitely the things he's not strongest at.

 

But don't you think that's an outcome of the change in left sided personnel?  Plus he was targeted by Chelsea who had James and Sterling running riot.  He was previously given licence to rampage because there were players (Mane most obviously, but also Thiago when fit, and even occasionally Nunez once or twice when he's played on the left) who have helped out.  VVD has played on the left most of his career with Liverpool, apart from a fall-off in form I don't think there's any big difference there.

[dave u]

52 minutes ago, stringvest said:

 

But don't you think that's an outcome of the change in left sided personnel?  Plus he was targeted by Chelsea who had James and Sterling running riot.  He was previously given licence to rampage because there were players (Mane most obviously, but also Thiago when fit, and even occasionally Nunez once or twice when he's played on the left) who have helped out.  VVD has played on the left most of his career with Liverpool, apart from a fall-off in form I don't think there's any big difference there.

 

It's that fall off in form I'm referring to.

 

I don't disagree with any of the points you've made there about the others and the dynamic changing. Fact is though he's now more of a left sided centre back than the marauding full back he was.

[lebron]

3 hours ago, dave u said:

 

Add Van Dijk to that list.

 

But it's the system too because he isn't allowed to rampage anymore and he plays further inside than he did in the glory days. We've taken away his strengths and are asking him to play to, I wouldn't call them weaknesses as such, but definitely the things he's not strongest at.

 

I do agree with this to an extent, but if we had peak Sadio, Bobby, Mo and Wijnaldum doing the pressing up front he wouldn't have to bother much about the "system" at all, as the opposition would be forced to play the outball (which Konate and even the current version of Van Dijk) would handle easily. Robbo would then be able to take part in said press/marauding.

 

My hope is that Szobo, Jones, Diaz/Jota and (with a rocket up his arse) Mo can get close to what that front 3/4 gave us. I think that's the easiest way back for Robbo. I love him, but Van Dijk (peak) was always the reason why Trent came out worse than Robbo in the defending stakes. I don't think it's much in between them in terms of positioning/ball-watching/closing down, neither are great at it. There wasn't a team in the world that challenged Van Dijk's side of the field when Matip/Gomez (I actually like both) played on the other side though. I think the tables have turned now though, and Robbo (whatever system we play) will be hindered by Van Dijk's obvious decline, while Konate and his pace will be a big security blanket for Trent (or other rb's).

[dave u]

11 minutes ago, lebron said:

 

I do agree with this to an extent, but if we had peak Sadio, Bobby, Mo and Wijnaldum doing the pressing up front he wouldn't have to bother much about the "system" at all, as the opposition would be forced to play the outball (which Konate and even the current version of Van Dijk) would handle easily. Robbo would then be able to take part in said press/marauding.

 

My hope is that Szobo, Jones, Diaz/Jota and (with a rocket up his arse) Mo can get close to what that front 3/4 gave us. I think that's the easiest way back for Robbo. I love him, but Van Dijk (peak) was always the reason why Trent came out worse than Robbo in the defending stakes. I don't think it's much in between them in terms of positioning/ball-watching/closing down, neither are great at it. There wasn't a team in the world that challenged Van Dijk's side of the field when Matip/Gomez (I actually like both) played on the other side though. I think the tables have turned now though, and Robbo (whatever system we play) will be hindered by Van Dijk's obvious decline, while Konate and his pace will be a big security blanket for Trent (or other rb's).

 

Agree with all of that except the bit in bold. I don't think the system allows for that consistently. Occasionally he'll do it, but not to the extent he did. Arsenal are looking to sell Tierney because of the system change they've made. The logical move for us would be to do that with Robbo, but nobody (including Klopp) wants to do that because (other than Stringvest) we all love him. 

[TheSire]

I agree we looked very good in the first 30 mins, with the ball we moved it much quicker than usual with nice one touch moves to break the lines and the press looked like it was on but as usual we let the opposition settle by keeping possession and when that happens we ALWAYS seem to see a drop in intensity and pressure on the ball. We didn't really seem to open up and up the pace until the later subs were made.

 

We REALLY struggled to keep the ball after that initial period as well which is quite unusual for us but Chelsea did seem to move the ball quite well and always seemed to have a man free so it could have been their setup allowing them plenty of space and with an option always available even though we did seem to be closing down at times.

 

I'm encouraged by how the two new signings looked, I can see us definitely opening up the weaker teams quite easily based around that, we do probably need to be more aggressive without the ball though. I do wonder whether our players subconsciously know refs will just give a free kick whenever the opposition loses a 50/50 in their favour and this affects how active we are in getting a foot in.

[coachpotato]

Szoboslai could be a monster for us I think, Mac Allister looks a very competent and accomplished player, Konate was very good, I hope he can steer clear of injuries, Allison did what was necessary and made no mistakes, thankfully, he does that a lot and very well. 
For a little while we looked ace, but then fell away, similar to the Real Madrid game at home last season but without our arses being handed to us.

The deficiencies were there for all to see, we can only hope they are being addressed because if not, then what are we playing at?