Chelsea 1 Liverpool 1 (Aug 13 2023)

[dave u]

What concerns me is that Klopp claimed it was quite an obvious thing that went wrong, and it was that we dropped off to cut out passing lanes instead of pushing forward to do it. I'm not saying he's wrong, but if it is that then surely the experienced players on the pitch (especially the captain) should also be aware of this and be screaming at everyone to sort it.

 

We played this system for the last two months of last season and we've been working on it all pre-season. It's not like it was thrown together last week. Why can't the players do as they're told?

[Razoray]

37 minutes ago, dave u said:

What concerns me is that Klopp claimed it was quite an obvious thing that went wrong, and it was that we dropped off to cut out passing lanes instead of pushing forward to do it. I'm not saying he's wrong, but if it is that then surely the experienced players on the pitch (especially the captain) should also be aware of this and be screaming at everyone to sort it.

 

We played this system for the last two months of last season and we've been working on it all pre-season. It's not like it was thrown together last week. Why can't the players do as they're told?

In my opinion, it is a combination of a trust thing and a fitness thing. None of the players played more than 75 minutes in a pre-season game and a lot only played a max of 45 minutes. The players' energy levels dropped off on Sunday, which is normal for the first game of the season, but for it to happen after 35/40 minutes is worrying.

The more tired we became, the deeper we dropped. While I agree, it needs the leaders to demand the team to push up and stick to the game plan, one would hope that this trust will come with match fitness together with a proper DM, with more control, less running and conserving energy. 

[sir roger]

Weirdly enough considering all of the criticism we are unbeaten and have taken more points than anybody else over the past 15 games ( 11 wins 4 draws ) so we must be doing something right and have a base to work from.

[dave u]

11 hours ago, sir roger said:

Weirdly enough considering all of the criticism we are unbeaten and have taken more points than anybody else over the past 15 games ( 11 wins 4 draws ) so we must be doing something right and have a base to work from.

 

While that is encouraging, does the eye test match up with it?

 

By that I mean we don't really look like we did when we were boss, do we?

 

I have no real significant concerns about us finishing top four but it's hard to envisage anything better than that if we don't get our shit together tactically and in the transfer market.

[dave u]

12 hours ago, Razoray said:

In my opinion, it is a combination of a trust thing and a fitness thing. None of the players played more than 75 minutes in a pre-season game and a lot only played a max of 45 minutes. The players' energy levels dropped off on Sunday, which is normal for the first game of the season, but for it to happen after 35/40 minutes is worrying.

The more tired we became, the deeper we dropped. While I agree, it needs the leaders to demand the team to push up and stick to the game plan, one would hope that this trust will come with match fitness together with a proper DM, with more control, less running and conserving energy. 

 

Thinking about this, and I can remember several other times when Klopp said our problem was the defence dropped off too much when he wants our line to go higher. That's Virgil's responsibility, surely?

[Razoray]

18 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

Thinking about this, and I can remember several other times when Klopp said our problem was the defence dropped off too much when he wants our line to go higher. That's Virgil's responsibility, surely?

Maybe, but they couldn't win the ball so were then pinned back. Maybe chicken and egg?

[dave u]

12 minutes ago, Razoray said:

Maybe, but they couldn't win the ball so were then pinned back. Maybe chicken and egg?

 

I'm not specifically talking about Sunday. I'm thinking of the times when Klopp has said the defensive line dropping too deep was our problem. The defensive leader shouldn't need telling about that, surely? It's a concern for me.

[Razoray]

14 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

I'm not specifically talking about Sunday. I'm thinking of the times when Klopp has said the defensive line dropping too deep was our problem. The defensive leader shouldn't need telling about that, surely? It's a concern for me.

The first time I can remember him saying it was against Southampton in the 18/19 season - the one where Henderson and Milner came on to help turn it around. Southampton scored early and they were getting in pockets in front of the back 4. I was screaming at Wijnaldum, Fabinho and Keita to drop in and close the spaces but Klopp said in the post-match presser that at half time that he told the whole team to push higher. 

As an aside, that's why Carragher and Neville (and the rest) making comments about Liverpool's high line is from an uninformed, naive point of view. 

This was perfected from then until 2022 (apart from when we had no CBs or no MF because the CBs were playing in midfield). Last year with the midfield not functioning, it fell apart, and I wouldn't judge it again until we have a well-ordered midfield again. 

If there is disfunction then, I'd be getting worried. 

[sir roger]

4 hours ago, dave u said:

 

While that is encouraging, does the eye test match up with it?

 

By that I mean we don't really look like we did when we were boss, do we?

 

I have no real significant concerns about us finishing top four but it's hard to envisage anything better than that if we don't get our shit together tactically and in the transfer market.

 

True enough, Dave, but might suggest we are over-impressed by our rivals due to not seeing them in as much detail and it is a significant chunk of season we are looking at.

[dave u]

56 minutes ago, sir roger said:

 

True enough, Dave, but might suggest we are over-impressed by our rivals due to not seeing them in as much detail and it is a significant chunk of season we are looking at.

 

Yeah that's a fair point.

[StevieMax]

On 15/08/2023 at 22:54, sir roger said:

Weirdly enough considering all of the criticism we are unbeaten and have taken more points than anybody else over the past 15 games ( 11 wins 4 draws ) so we must be doing something right and have a base to work from.

How many of those games did Curtis Jones start?