Trent Alexander Arnold

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

18 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I just dont see the Trent in midfield argument myself. The reason he excels,when on form,at right back is that there is always more space in wide areas. Playing in central midfield (we dont traditionally have wide midfielders) would require a different skillset. I'm not sure if Klopp even considers it myself.

This. 

[Mil-ing Around]

I think its time to have the conversation about him as a right back. I love him and he's world class at creating/passing but he's not world class at defending. Not even close. He gets done so easily, body shape is wrong most of the time and anyone with abit of pace and trickery roasts him most of the time.  He's also bulked up to much and we've given him too much peds. Like a super dose. The fucker can't turn anymore. 

 

Teams target that side constantly but we used to counter that by targeting them when he had the ball. He had an on fire Salah in front of him and a world class Mane to switch the ball to when the pass to Salah wasn't on.  It helped us open the pitch up. Without that, his brilliant passing range is negated and his weaknesses are highlighted even more. 

 

He's obviously not helped much by Henderson's legs falling off a cliff, so he has very little protection with just Mo in front of him. People are crying out for us to play deeper and more compact but i can't help but feel that he'd still get roasted by most decent wide forwards. 

 

I'm not sure what the hell is going on with Ramsey but he looked a million times better at defending than Trent in that one game he played for us. At the very least, Trent needs to be dropped/rested and given some time to recover some kind of form. He's a bigger liability than Thiago when we don't have the ball, people walk past them both. 

[Captain Howdy]

He is a terrible defender

[Lee909]

17 minutes ago, Mil-ing Around said:

I think its time to have the conversation about him as a right back. I love him and he's world class at creating/passing but he's not world class at defending. Not even close. He gets done so easily, body shape is wrong most of the time and anyone with abit of pace and trickery roasts him most of the time.  He's also bulked up to much and we've given him too much peds. Like a super dose. The fucker can't turn anymore. 

 

Teams target that side constantly but we used to counter that by targeting them when he had the ball. He had an on fire Salah in front of him and a world class Mane to switch the ball to when the pass to Salah wasn't on.  It helped us open the pitch up. Without that, his brilliant passing range is negated and his weaknesses are highlighted even more. 

 

He's obviously not helped much by Henderson's legs falling off a cliff, so he has very little protection with just Mo in front of him. People are crying out for us to play deeper and more compact but i can't help but feel that he'd still get roasted by most decent wide forwards. 

 

I'm not sure what the hell is going on with Ramsey but he looked a million times better at defending than Trent in that one game he played for us. At the very least, Trent needs to be dropped/rested and given some time to recover some kind of form. He's a bigger liability than Thiago when we don't have the ball, people walk past them both. 

 

I said a few weeks back I'd play him on the right of the 3 midfielders and play Gomez at rightback until we do whatever we are going to do. 

 

Let him fit into that same role de Bruyne plays, he can still get wide and cross. Gomez can play more conservatively like a traditional fullback and just offer overlapping. Should get Mo further infield towards the goal aswell. 

[stringvest]

52 minutes ago, Mil-ing Around said:

I think its time to have the conversation about him as a right back. I love him and he's world class at creating/passing but he's not world class at defending. Not even close. He gets done so easily, body shape is wrong most of the time and anyone with abit of pace and trickery roasts him most of the time.  He's also bulked up to much and we've given him too much peds. Like a super dose. The fucker can't turn anymore. 

 

Teams target that side constantly but we used to counter that by targeting them when he had the ball. He had an on fire Salah in front of him and a world class Mane to switch the ball to when the pass to Salah wasn't on.  It helped us open the pitch up. Without that, his brilliant passing range is negated and his weaknesses are highlighted even more. 

 

He's obviously not helped much by Henderson's legs falling off a cliff, so he has very little protection with just Mo in front of him. People are crying out for us to play deeper and more compact but i can't help but feel that he'd still get roasted by most decent wide forwards. 

 

I'm not sure what the hell is going on with Ramsey but he looked a million times better at defending than Trent in that one game he played for us. At the very least, Trent needs to be dropped/rested and given some time to recover some kind of form. He's a bigger liability than Thiago when we don't have the ball, people walk past them both. 

I think you might be getting Thiago mixed up with Henderson, Fabinho, Matip, Robertson , Ox etc there.  

[LFC 6 Times]

He needs to cut that fucking hair. He looks like a fucking idiot.

[Planet Origi]

18 minutes ago, stringvest said:

I think you might be getting Thiago mixed up with Henderson, Fabinho, Matip, Robertson , Ox etc there.  

He's probably the worst of the lot barring Henderson. Yet another invisible performance.

[Mil-ing Around]

22 minutes ago, stringvest said:

I think you might be getting Thiago mixed up with Henderson, Fabinho, Matip, Robertson , Ox etc there.  

 

Definitely could have used any of those names I agree, but Thiago gets more of a free ride because he's good on the ball.

 

But lets be honest, he's too slow to play as a 6, he can't press as one of the more advanced midfielders, and once they bypass that press he's a passenger. He's a liability, well they all are right now. But watch how many people run off the back of him, it opens our midfield up a lot. 

 

We bought him to help us break down teams that play a low block and play on the counter, against anyone that presses us or is a good possession team with patterns of play he gets targeted and it doesn't help the other two. 

 

Trent = high risk, high reward

Thiago = high risk, high reward

 

Having two players like that in the same team + injuries+ new players+players getting old+losing world class Mane it's suicide right now. The risk is too high for very little reward at the moment.

 

 

 

[stringvest]

1 hour ago, Planet Origi said:

He's probably the worst of the lot barring Henderson. Yet another invisible performance.

You missed the two tackles that saved two further goals then.  Smashing. 

[VladimirIlyich]

If Thiago manages to play say three games in a row he's brilliant in the first game,decent for the next half a game and then is fucked afterwards. He deserves as much criticism as the rest as he has been equally shite.

[skend04]

4 hours ago, LFC 6 Times said:

He needs to cut that fucking hair. He looks like a fucking idiot.

How should a person of mixed heritage cut their hair sir?

Trent'll see to it right away sir!

 

[Bobby Hundreds]

Is Thiago high reward or only in the sense he's nice to watch he's an elegant player. 

 

This team has zero graft in it. Those who were capable no longer are and through lack of options we are running them more and more into the ground, seeing them more dispirited at their own performances and we are all pretty much beat before the fixture is played.

[chrisbonnie]

11 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Is Thiago high reward or only in the sense he's nice to watch he's an elegant player. 

 

This team has zero graft in it. Those who were capable no longer are and through lack of options we are running them more and more into the ground, seeing them more dispirited at their own performances and we are all pretty much beat before the fixture is played.

Pretty much bang on. 

[J-V]

I wouldn’t even trust him to cross the road without someone holding his hand let alone play him at right back any more. Zero positional awareness. He gets ripped to pieces every time someone gets near him and he’s targeted every game because of it.

[ZonkoVille77]

I mean he can't be blamed for an aging Hendo/Milner or a Championship level Elliot getting picked to play on that side with him, offering no protection. That's not even factoring in Salah going on holidays after his Bumper contract. But he has been lazy, thick, giving up too easily, fouling instead of concentrating. He can get ta fuck.

 

 

[VladimirIlyich]

I think Trent's actual defending has improved but playing the way he used to with the available personnel in front and alongside him is exposing him big time. His old role is not viable without different teammates. Even Robbo is looking exposed despite running himself into the ground.

[Red Shift]

7 hours ago, Mil-ing Around said:

I think its time to have the conversation about him as a right back. I love him and he's world class at creating/passing but he's not world class at defending. Not even close. He gets done so easily, body shape is wrong most of the time and anyone with abit of pace and trickery roasts him most of the time.  He's also bulked up to much and we've given him too much peds. Like a super dose. The fucker can't turn anymore. 

 

Teams target that side constantly but we used to counter that by targeting them when he had the ball. He had an on fire Salah in front of him and a world class Mane to switch the ball to when the pass to Salah wasn't on.  It helped us open the pitch up. Without that, his brilliant passing range is negated and his weaknesses are highlighted even more. 

 

He's obviously not helped much by Henderson's legs falling off a cliff, so he has very little protection with just Mo in front of him. People are crying out for us to play deeper and more compact but i can't help but feel that he'd still get roasted by most decent wide forwards. 

 

I'm not sure what the hell is going on with Ramsey but he looked a million times better at defending than Trent in that one game he played for us. At the very least, Trent needs to be dropped/rested and given some time to recover some kind of form. He's a bigger liability than Thiago when we don't have the ball, people walk past them both. 

i think the point is, that if he loses the ball at RB, there’s nobody left to cover behind him. If he loses the ball at RM, there’s a RB to do damage control.

 

If we continued with 3 in midfield, he’d certainly have more space because the RB’s brief would be to stay put. 
 

On the other side of the field we have Robbo still running from box to box and how long can that continue?

[JohnnyH]

We should sell him and buy wan bisaka 

[chrisbonnie]

not that MOTD is the oracle of football, but even they highlighted how isolated Trent is getting. 

 

He's basically getting zero help from the midfield when the other teams have the ball, yet we still expect him to provide the vast majority of our attacking crosses. 

 

he's not entirely blameless, but more often than not he's getting overrun by opposition players and getting fuck all help from his team mates

[lebron]

1 hour ago, chrisbonnie said:

not that MOTD is the oracle of football, but even they highlighted how isolated Trent is getting. 

 

He's basically getting zero help from the midfield when the other teams have the ball, yet we still expect him to provide the vast majority of our attacking crosses. 

 

he's not entirely blameless, but more often than not he's getting overrun by opposition players and getting fuck all help from his team mates

 

I love Matip, but he's not even close to helping Trent. Konate (and even Gomez) are much better at supporting our RB (just as VVD has done for years with Robbo) because of their pace. You can contrast that with the support Wan Bissaka gets from Varane and Casemiro yesterday, it's night and day. He only needs to concentrate on not getting beat on the outside (much easier), while there's acres of space around Trent, due to Hendo and Fabinho falling off a cliff. Elliott and Salah's lack of defensive work are big factors as well.

 

All that being said, Trent's not doing as well as he should be doing. He seems heavier and lesss agile than before, I suspect he's bulked up a bit too much to try and get faster and stronger, but it's taken a toll on his stamina and agility. Tough to get that balance right.

 

[Section_31]

We need Colonel Trautman to bring Steve Finnan home. He's currently drinking in a Cork pub with a beard down to his ankles but could do a job.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

44 minutes ago, lebron said:

 

I love Matip, but he's not even close to helping Trent. Konate (and even Gomez) are much better at supporting our RB (just as VVD has done for years with Robbo) because of their pace. You can contrast that with the support Wan Bissaka gets from Varane and Casemiro yesterday, it's night and day. He only needs to concentrate on not getting beat on the outside (much easier), while there's acres of space around Trent, due to Hendo and Fabinho falling off a cliff. Elliott and Salah's lack of defensive work are big factors as well.

 

All that being said, Trent's not doing as well as he should be doing. He seems heavier and lesss agile than before, I suspect he's bulked up a bit too much to try and get faster and stronger, but it's taken a toll on his stamina and agility. Tough to get that balance right.

 

Several good points in this post. I’ve got no doubt our midfield in general being too slow and lacking ability to press, tackle, intercept and win second balls is our main problem, and think we need to fix that and then see where we stand. 
 

But no doubt our right side look particularly vulnerable, and Trent’s lack of defensive abilities clearly is part of it. But he’s definately not being helped by the surroundings. Henderson and Fabinho doesnt look like PL players anymore. Henderson is jogging around, doing some pointing and a bit of shouting, while opponents stroll past him unchallenged, he never wins, or even bother to get involved in, a challenge on the ground or in the air. Fabinho is a bit different, with him it’s mainly the lack of pace and mobility that’s the problem, but the result is the same, opponents are running virvles around him. Also Salah’s lack of defensive contribution is a factor, and even more so imo his lack of ability to receive the ball and keep possession. The number of times he looses it is remarkable, and means Trent is lacking options when in possession, and whem passing it to Salah we more often than not loose it immediately and are put under pressure again. 

 

The above factors are also part of the reason Trent gets caught out of position too often, as the trio of Salah, Henderson/Elliott and Fabinho doesnt close the spaces in front of him Trent needs to step forwards meaning he leaves huge gaps behind him.
 

 

Trent is not good enough defensively, even of he’s probably a bit better than he gets credit for, but I reckon the players around him, and possibly also our defensive structure, plays a major part in making him look so poor. Which also maybe to some degree can explain his body language, which is a bit of a worry as well. 

[sir roger]

Aa a team and manager we need to re-think the cavalry charge approach generally, but plain common sense is needed at times.

 

Yesterday as the 2 minutes board went up after 45 minutes 99.9% of Liverpool supporters are thinking ' thank fuck, get to half time and have a rethink ' , 45 seconds later I can't believe my eyes as 3 of Brightons players are streaming towards our central defence with TAA puffing 25 yards behind them in the inside right channel and Robbo god knows where. The ball ends up on the right with March in acres of space and we end up avoiding a goal by the skin of our teeth.

[an tha]

That space has always been there - what has changed is it is now just exploited so much more.

 

We now allow teams to hit it more - because we don't pen them in like we used to as our press from front and winning ball high up park is gone and teams are getting out and hitting us and because our midfield no longer win 2nd balls and challenges and the cover it used to offer and players snuffing out danger has disappeared and teams are walking through it and outnumbering our 2 centre halves who are left trying to defend the width of park.

 

I'd stop the full backs bombing on so much until we get a proper midfield - but the problem is we would then find our attacking width is severely compromised if we continue to play 4-3-3 or the variations we have been trying.

 

My feel is we simply can't continue with our current tactics because we don't have the right players....TAA may have his flaws as a defender but at present they are being exposed because more because of the problems ahead of him and how they affect the way he is asked to play more than because of it being solely about him as a player.

 

 

[Red74]

If a massive offer came in for him this summer would you accept it?