Darwin Nunez - Thoughts?

[Scott_M]

[dave u]

16 hours ago, Supremolad said:

The "he is good when he doesn't have time to think" narrative has undertones of him being too thick or not capable of thinking clearly unless he does things instinctively.

 

This is what some will use to justify their wrongness, so any time he scores a goal where he isn't running through from the halfway line with five seconds to decide what he's going to do, they'll say "you see, I always said he was ok when he didn't have time to think".

 

Completely overlooking that some of the worst misses he's had have been first time shots when he hasn't had loads of time to think.

[JustTosh]

7 minutes ago, dave u said:

 

This is what some will use to justify their wrongness, so any time he scores a goal where he isn't running through from the halfway line with five seconds to decide what he's going to do, they'll say "you see, I always said he was ok when he didn't have time to think".

 

Completely overlooking that some of the worst misses he's had have been first time shots when he hasn't had loads of time to think.

Against Fulham 9/10 forwards, especially if they were on a goal drought, would shoot from a tight angel. Darwin? No, a clever little cutback to Gakpo instead. Great thinking, superb awareness that. And proof the ”shit Andy Carrol chants” doesn’t affect him.

Darwin probably doesn’t know who Andy Carrol is, but if he himself is a shit version of the man I guess he wonders how extremely good that Carrol guy must’ve been.

[Bobby Hundreds]

He's just not clinical and that's about it. I couldn't ask more from any other part of his play but his weakness is he isn't clinical and he may never be but if he keeps creating the same amount of chances he should score enough of them for it to not matter too much... unless it's the dying seconds of an important game and he's one on one.

[Pete]

2 hours ago, JustTosh said:

Against Fulham 9/10 forwards, especially if they were on a goal drought, would shoot from a tight angel. Darwin? No, a clever little cutback to Gakpo instead. Great thinking, superb awareness that. And proof the ”shit Andy Carrol chants” doesn’t affect him.

Darwin probably doesn’t know who Andy Carrol is, but if he himself is a shit version of the man I guess he wonders how extremely good that Carrol guy must’ve been.

 

 

Probably doesn't have a clue who Andy Carrol is though.  

[Bjornebye]

9 minutes ago, Pete said:

Probably doesn't have a clue who Andy Carrol is though.  

 

Neither does Andy Carroll half the time 

[Reckoner]

Poor Andy Carrol must be like ‘what the fuck did I do?’ every time those chants go up.

[TheHowieLama]

Exactly - he did nothing. Nothing!

[Brownie]

This Darwin stuff reeks of Benitez 2009.

[Pidge]

12 minutes ago, Reckoner said:

Poor Andy Carrol must be like ‘what the fuck did I do?’ every time those chants go up.

"At least I'm not the shit one this time"

[VladimirIlyich]

3 hours ago, JustTosh said:

Against Fulham 9/10 forwards, especially if they were on a goal drought, would shoot from a tight angel. Darwin? No, a clever little cutback to Gakpo instead. Great thinking, superb awareness that. And proof the ”shit Andy Carrol chants” doesn’t affect him.

Darwin probably doesn’t know who Andy Carrol is, but if he himself is a shit version of the man I guess he wonders how extremely good that Carrol guy must’ve been.

 

 

He's wiv da Angles.

[dave u]

1 hour ago, Brownie said:

This Darwin stuff reeks of Benitez 2009.

 

Yer ma reeks of Benitez 2009.

[VladimirIlyich]

Those two late goals against Newcastle seem to have been forgotten quickly. There couldn't have been a lot more pressure than that on him and yet,bang,bang 3pts. He even had to think about them.

[Supremolad]

8 hours ago, dave u said:

 

This is what some will use to justify their wrongness, so any time he scores a goal where he isn't running through from the halfway line with five seconds to decide what he's going to do, they'll say "you see, I always said he was ok when he didn't have time to think".

 

Completely overlooking that some of the worst misses he's had have been first time shots when he hasn't had loads of time to think.

Yep, there is some blatant shifting of goalposts when it comes to Darwin.

 

@dave u, speaking of another of your often maligned boys, do you know Patrick Bamford now has a podcast on BBC sounds? I listened to an episode recently which was dedicated to his brilliant FA cup goal. He mentioned ringing Lineker up for attacking tips and Lineker being surprised because Bamford was the first player ever to reach out to him for such.

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

9 hours ago, dave u said:

 

This is what some will use to justify their wrongness, so any time he scores a goal where he isn't running through from the halfway line with five seconds to decide what he's going to do, they'll say "you see, I always said he was ok when he didn't have time to think".

 

Completely overlooking that some of the worst misses he's had have been first time shots when he hasn't had loads of time to think.

 

Or it could be a bit like the 'Yips' that golf wankers always complain about? Just hit the ball with your bat into the hole, Bing Crosby.

[lebron]

There's a lot to like about Darwin, no doubt.

 

I'm just not sure he's ever going to live up to "par" in terms of finishing. If we just accept that he brings a lot to the table, and our other 4 attackers stay mainly fit, we'll be fine. 

 

As others have said, he's bound to get a lot of chances and cause mayhem that our other forwards will take advantage of. Totally agree with Dave's point about him not being in our hands if he was a brilliant finisher either. It was the same with Sadio, Bobby and Mo in their peak as well. All bordering on wasteful, and without checking their stats I'd be surprised if either of them outscored their xG over longer periods of time (like most other top strikers do). Their movement, pace, guile and enthusiasm (coupled with Klopp's way of playing football) made them unique in terms of creating opportunities though, and hopefully our 5 attacking options will in sum give us the same volume of chances. It's much more entertaining to watch (even if a bit frustrating at times) us create loads of chances and missing a few of them than waiting all game to create very few and being completely reliant on scoring those few (think Tottenham under Conte or us under Houllier).

[3 Stacks]

2 hours ago, lebron said:

There's a lot to like about Darwin, no doubt.

 

I'm just not sure he's ever going to live up to "par" in terms of finishing. If we just accept that he brings a lot to the table, and our other 4 attackers stay mainly fit, we'll be fine. 

 

As others have said, he's bound to get a lot of chances and cause mayhem that our other forwards will take advantage of. Totally agree with Dave's point about him not being in our hands if he was a brilliant finisher either. It was the same with Sadio, Bobby and Mo in their peak as well. All bordering on wasteful, and without checking their stats I'd be surprised if either of them outscored their xG over longer periods of time (like most other top strikers do). Their movement, pace, guile and enthusiasm (coupled with Klopp's way of playing football) made them unique in terms of creating opportunities though, and hopefully our 5 attacking options will in sum give us the same volume of chances. It's much more entertaining to watch (even if a bit frustrating at times) us create loads of chances and missing a few of them than waiting all game to create very few and being completely reliant on scoring those few (think Tottenham under Conte or us under Houllier).

 

The part about us not being able to get Darwin if he was a better finisher isnt true. His breakout season at Benfica, he outscored his xG by 8. That summer he was on the market having shown he could possibly be that kind of goal scorer. 

 

Given what we have seen since then, that just shows what scoring goals is all about and what smart people figured out about scoring goals; you dont have to be a great finisher, or even an above average one, but if you are the type of forward that is able to consistently shoot a lot from good areas, you can have seasons where the ball goes in a lot. 

 

That is another thing that is really annoying about his finishing since he signed; he was actually outperforming his xG by 10-15 before he signed and his time at Liverpool has been the time where he has reverted to average. In league matches over his career, he is now at basically the same number of goals and xG. 

[Mil-ing Around]

7 goals in 10 games

 

Or 

 

 

10 in 14

 

That's the type of purple patch we need him to hit. If he can do that we have a chance of winning the league. I'm rooting for the big beautiful peacock. 

[RedMyst]

3 hours ago, Supremolad said:

...Lineker being surprised because Bamford was the first player ever to reach out to him for such.

read that as 'reach around'

 

ffs

[TheHowieLama]

Ask not why Nunez misses so many chances but why others create so few.

 

[lebron]

38 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

 

The part about us not being able to get Darwin if he was a better finisher isnt true. His breakout season at Benfica, he outscored his xG by 8. That summer he was on the market having shown he could possibly be that kind of goal scorer. 

 

Given what we have seen since then, that just shows what scoring goals is all about and what smart people figured out about scoring goals; you dont have to be a great finisher, or even an above average one, but if you are the type of forward that is able to consistently shoot a lot from good areas, you can have seasons where the ball goes in a lot. 

 

That is another thing that is really annoying about his finishing since he signed; he was actually outperforming his xG by 10-15 before he signed and his time at Liverpool has been the time where he has reverted to average. In league matches over his career, he is now at basically the same number of goals and xG. 

 

8 or 10-15? Is there something I'm missing?

 

I'd say possibly being the key word in that first paragraph (if you, as me,  want to be a bit sceptical towards strikers outperforming their stats and going on scoring runs). Numerous examples of this even in the PL. I remember ex Norway GK Erik Thorstvedt being shocked at Joshua King's numbers at Bournemouth (think he scored 16 with the xG being something like 7). He (rather safely) predicted that King's numbers weren't sustainable, and that he would revert to type (as a 1 in 4/5ish striker). Think he scored 3 or 4 the following season...

 

Again, might be going over old ground here, but I'd say there are 10-15 very saveable goals in those Benfica comps. Not sure if I'd use striker numbers in Portugal (or Netherlands) as a barometer for what one can expect in the PL, as the defending (and goalkeeping) seems to be seriously underwhelming. I really don't want to be a downer, but the over the board hyping of his finishing is as annoying as those saying he's shit.

 

Take the first goal on Sunday as an example. It's a decent finish, but I expect the keeper to save that given how openly he telegraphs his shot. For the second he makes a very good run (what a cross from Joe!), and throws his body forward, both legs at the same time. It then hits the outside of his right boot. Hardly a controlled finish, but again it hits the back of the net.

 

Anyway, at this point in time, I'm very happy for him to be a part of our attack, and he gives us a great option both from starting and off the bench. He's full of energy and enthusiasm, and gives his all for the club. That's a great starting point, and while I don't expect the goals to flow freely, I'm rooting for him to take more of his chances as well as continuing to improve his overall play with and without the ball.

[3 Stacks]

32 minutes ago, lebron said:

 

8 or 10-15? Is there something I'm missing?

 

I'd say possibly being the key word in that first paragraph (if you, as me,  want to be a bit sceptical towards strikers outperforming their stats and going on scoring runs). Numerous examples of this even in the PL. I remember ex Norway GK Erik Thorstvedt being shocked at Joshua King's numbers at Bournemouth (think he scored 16 with the xG being something like 7). He (rather safely) predicted that King's numbers weren't sustainable, and that he would revert to type (as a 1 in 4/5ish striker). Think he scored 3 or 4 the following season...

 

Again, might be going over old ground here, but I'd say there are 10-15 very saveable goals in those Benfica comps. Not sure if I'd use striker numbers in Portugal (or Netherlands) as a barometer for what one can expect in the PL, as the defending (and goalkeeping) seems to be seriously underwhelming. I really don't want to be a downer, but the over the board hyping of his finishing is as annoying as those saying he's shit.

 

Take the first goal on Sunday as an example. It's a decent finish, but I expect the keeper to save that given how openly he telegraphs his shot. For the second he makes a very good run (what a cross from Joe!), and throws his body forward, both legs at the same time. It then hits the outside of his right boot. Hardly a controlled finish, but again it hits the back of the net.

 

Anyway, at this point in time, I'm very happy for him to be a part of our attack, and he gives us a great option both from starting and off the bench. He's full of energy and enthusiasm, and gives his all for the club. That's a great starting point, and while I don't expect the goals to flow freely, I'm rooting for him to take more of his chances as well as continuing to improve his overall play with and without the ball.

 

His last season at Benfica, he outscored his xG by 8 in the league.  Cumulatively, before his move to Liverpool (Almeria and 2 seasons at Benfica), he outperformed his xG by 10-15, depending where you look.

 

So, he was an adequate finisher statistically before that big season as well, lets say, but point taken about the quality of the leagues. Some of the good finishing could have been facing weak keepers. Although, he was red hot in Europe also before signing for us. We saw some of that against us. 

 

If we are talking Sunday, I think the first goal is an example of what he should be doing. He was deliberate and in control the whole time. He scored a pretty similar goal against Rangers last season. The second goal, I absolutely agree, that is the sort of finish that has basically a random outcome and its something he does often that could be a reason for some of his misses. He just flings himself at the ball and that time it so happened to hit his leg in the right angle and go in. 

 

 

 

 

[lebron]

6 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

 

His last season at Benfica, he outscored his xG by 8 in the league.  Cumulatively, before his move to Liverpool (Almeria and 2 seasons at Benfica), he outperformed his xG by 10-15, depending where you look.

 

So, he was an adequate finisher statistically before that big season as well, lets say, but point taken about the quality of the leagues. Some of the good finishing could have been facing weak keepers. Although, he was red hot in Europe also before signing for us. We saw some of that against us. 

 

If we are talking Sunday, I think the first goal is an example of what he should be doing. He was deliberate and in control the whole time. He scored a pretty similar goal against Rangers last season. The second goal, I absolutely agree, that is the sort of finish that has basically a random outcome and its something he does often that could be a reason for some of his misses. He just flings himself at the ball and that time it so happened to hit his leg in the right angle and go in. 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, I see. Well, let's hope you and Usher are right in your unwavering support of him, and that he'll start knocking them in with regularity. 

 

I agree on the finishing techniques. Sadio used to do my head in as he seemed to be off balance half the time when in great scoring positions. His ability to accelerate and get in front of defenders more than made up for his otherwise occasional erratic finishing. As you say, the 1st goal at least is deliberate, even if he's leaning a bit too much backwards and half-scuffs the finish.  if Allison let that one in I'd be pretty disappointed. I actually think most PL keepers not named Pickford saves it, but again, nice to see him take aim and put it into the corner.

 

I actually think most on here are rooting for him. Us being in the title race actually (unfortunately) puts more pressure on him, as when he starts people expect him to be our primary source of goals (being the literal no. 9). If people could bring themeselves to just see him as one of 4 attackers contributing to our TEAM cause, I think that would be helpful.

[3 Stacks]

7 minutes ago, lebron said:

 

Ah, I see. Well, let's hope you and Usher are right in your unwavering support of him, and that he'll start knocking them in with regularity. 

 

I agree on the finishing techniques. Sadio used to do my head in as he seemed to be off balance half the time when in great scoring positions. His ability to accelerate and get in front of defenders more than made up for his otherwise occasional erratic finishing. As you say, the 1st goal at least is deliberate, even if he's leaning a bit too much backwards and half-scuffs the finish.  if Allison let that one in I'd be pretty disappointed. I actually think most PL keepers not named Pickford saves it, but again, nice to see him take aim and put it into the corner.

 

I actually think most on here are rooting for him. Us being in the title race actually (unfortunately) puts more pressure on him, as when he starts people expect him to be our primary source of goals (being the literal no. 9). If people could bring themeselves to just see him as one of 4 attackers contributing to our TEAM cause, I think that would be helpful.

You can not put me in the same sentence as Usher in terms of support. Most people on here think I hate the guy. 

[Anubis]

Nice little article for Dave to enjoy.

 

https://www.espn.com/soccer/insider/insider/story/_/id/39363984/why-liverpool-darwin-nunez-premier-league-best-players