FSG are not shit

[Moctezuma]

Also improving our miserly community programmes so that we're doing more than Everton in the city would be good.

[Numero Veinticinco]

I was just having a conversation in the MF about this. I’m going to post the same question in here to card carrying members of the anti-FSG club.

 

Here goes...

 

It just grinds me down. You’re relentless, mate. I was trying to refute your constant reality bending negativity without resorting to insults.

 

So far in the Coutinho money...

 

Salah = 35

Chamberlain = 40

Keita = 50+

VVD = 75

 

That’s 200m. We have received 0p for Coutinho. We might get 120m at some point.

 

Even if this is the Coutinho money and not a penny more, isn’t this what we should have done? Isn’t this the competent move? To buy players before it happens?

 

Answer me this. If thy go out nd add to the squad further this Winter, let’s say 70m for Lemar, or get Goretzka, or Trapp. Will they deserve some credit? If not, what do they need to do to get you to say ‘that’s well done on their part’?

 

It seems to me that you’re not interested in doing anything other than moaning and twisting anything good into a negative. These last two windows they’ve backed their manager to the fucking hilt, and they told Countinho he can fuck off, turning down a world record fee in the process.

 

Where’s the line for you? Surely if we sell Countinho and spend again, you must turn around and say that these signings aren’t the Coutinho money?

[Dave D]

Not sure what defines good owners in some peoples view. 

 

Spending big like this may only last another season for most premier league clubs as havent Sky and BT essentially struck a deal so after next season there will be no TV rights bidding war?  

 

.

[No2]

Not sure what defines good owners in some peoples view.

 

Spending big like this may only last another season for most premier league clubs as havent Sky and BT essentially struck a deal so after next season there will be no TV rights bidding war?

 

.

We shouldn't need or expect to spend like this again. The manager identified short comings in his squad and we have addressed those.

 

Going forward I think everyone (on here I mean, not necessarily including the manager) agrees we need a better goalkeeper and a left back. After that we would only require some cosmetic changes, maybe replace Sturridge, Henderson and Gini, but the funds for that should come from selling them first.

[Ne Moe Imya]

I still think it's a possibility that Coutinho will stay, possibly even beyond the Summer simply because 1) his value will rocket and 2) the team will start to deliver above and beyond all they have so far. Coutinho wants to be in a winning team and if January continues like this, who's to say the team we could have in the second half of the season?

 

If Coutinho is still with us next September, the biggest reason will not be because we're so brilliant that he decided to stay, it will be because Barca couldn't afford him.

 

I don't think the Coutinho thing is up to FSG, really. He wanted to go last summer, was desperate to go in fact, but Barca never got near what we were (reasonably) asking. Come this summer he'll be worth even more, and he'll still be under contract for years with no buyout. So we'll be asking at least 100m up front, probably with some serious and achievable addons to get it up to 120-140m. If not more, given the way he's playing and the fact that prices don't seem to be coming back down.

 

But there are reports, pretty strong ones from Honigstein and the like, that Barca's finances are a mess. They're also after Griezmann, don't forget, who has a buyout clause I think of 100m euros. Depending on how strongly they pursue that, there's a small but real chance that Barca might not even come back in for Coutinho, at least not for real.

 

All of which means that FSG probably have little say in the matter. They are backing Klopp as much as I think possible, though obviously many disagree, but with Coutinho it will come down to Phil himself and mostly Barcelona and what they decide to do. Fortunately, we have Phil on a long-term contract so there shouldn't be any temptation at all to reduce our price.

[Rotpeter]

I was just having a conversation in the MF about this. I’m going to post the same question in here to card carrying members of the anti-FSG club.

 

Here goes...

 

It just grinds me down. You’re relentless, mate. I was trying to refute your constant reality bending negativity without resorting to insults.

 

So far in the Coutinho money...

 

Salah = 35

Chamberlain = 40

Keita = 50+

VVD = 75

 

That’s 200m. We have received 0p for Coutinho. We might get 120m at some point.

 

Even if this is the Coutinho money and not a penny more, isn’t this what we should have done? Isn’t this the competent move? To buy players before it happens?

 

Answer me this. If thy go out nd add to the squad further this Winter, let’s say 70m for Lemar, or get Goretzka, or Trapp. Will they deserve some credit? If not, what do they need to do to get you to say ‘that’s well done on their part’?

 

It seems to me that you’re not interested in doing anything other than moaning and twisting anything good into a negative. These last two windows they’ve backed their manager to the fucking hilt, and they told Countinho he can fuck off, turning down a world record fee in the process.

 

Where’s the line for you? Surely if we sell Countinho and spend again, you must turn around and say that these signings aren’t the Coutinho money?

As a congenital moany bastard myself, I can assure you the condition does not respond to reason.  You're banging your head against a brick wall here.

 

The only thing it will respond to, in this case,  is trophies.

[dockers_strike]

What was it Shanks said directors are just there to sign the checks. If they do that I am happy.

[Numero Veinticinco]

As a congenital moany bastard myself, I can assure you the condition does not respond to reason. You're banging your head against a brick wall here.

Indeed.

[Scooby Dudek]

I am delighted with the signing, I am not a fan of FSG. It is possible to be both. 

 

IMO, to answer why I am still negative about them;

 

This transfer can not be taken in isolation. Great spending the Phil money before we sell, however in the past we have sold and not replaced (getting rid of the shite, if you see it that way). 

 

Previous January windows have been a joke (apart from the obvious one), where backing the manager could have produced significantly different outcomes (we will never know). 

 

Summer windows have been a case of not even spending what we have taken in in increased revenue over previous seasons. I believe we average approx 20 million a season.  This summer we spent approx 45 million net, the previous summer we made a profit. 

 

That is why I am delighted with this signing but not delighted with the owners. 

 

IF they have realised they have a brilliant manager who they are now prepared to back, than I for one will delighted to say I was wrong and they do indeed care the club being a success on the pitch as well as off. 

 

 

 

If someone disappoints you repeatedly and then does something good. You hope it is a change for a better and will become a trend rather than a one off. 

[Grinch]

I am delighted with the signing, I am not a fan of FSG. It is possible to be both.

 

IMO, to answer why I am still negative about them;

 

This transfer can not be taken in isolation. Great spending the Phil money before we sell, however in the past we have sold and not replaced (getting rid of the shite, if you see it that way).

 

Previous January windows have been a joke (apart from the obvious one), where backing the manager could have produced significantly different outcomes (we will never know).

 

Summer windows have been a case of not even spending what we have taken in in increased revenue over previous seasons. I believe we average approx 20 million a season. This summer we spent approx 45 million net, the previous summer we made a profit.

 

That is why I am delighted with this signing but not delighted with the owners.

 

IF they have realised they have a brilliant manager who they are now prepared to back, than I for one will delighted to say I was wrong and they do indeed care the club being a success on the pitch as well as off.

In one

[stringvest]

I don’t think the owners are changing tack at all - I think they will continue to operate in more or less the same way as before. They may loosen the purse strings a little to reflect that they have more faith in this iteration of manager and scouting team, but they’re not going to veer off their current strategy. But let’s be realistic. Unless we find someone with extremely deep pockets and the sort of dodgy profile that could benefit through ownership of a club (see ManCity) or they need a laundering tool a la Abramovich, then we are beholden to owners such as we have now, or potentially worse. Chinese or Saudis would appear to be the only realistic candidates that would give some fans what they want. Is there anyone else out there who would see the club as more than an investment opportunity, and what would their motives be?

[Kevin D]

It is quite possible to be happy that we've signed a good footballer without believing that it eradicates seven years of utter shite from these owners.

Proving a counter-factual is damn near impossible.

 

However, if you had started a thread on October 2010 and advocated new owners who turned up once a season, sacked Kenny for winning 1 of the 3 trophies he entered, jacked ticket prices to the highest in the country outside London, while presiding over the least successful side since 1972, and the least successful decade since the 50s - I think one or two eyebrows may have been raised.

 

When they do eventually leave, I think John and Tom will write a book, because this counterinsurgency strategy that they've employed has been enormously successful and I wouldn't have believed it.

[Grinch]

Proving a counter-factual is damn near impossible.

 

However, if you had started a thread on October 2010 and advocated new owners who turned up once a season, sacked Kenny for winning 1 of the 3 trophies he entered, jacked ticket prices to the highest in the country outside London, while presiding over the least successful side since 1972, and the least successful decade since the 50s - I think one or two eyebrows may have been raised.

 

When they do eventually leave, I think John and Tom will write a book, because this counterinsurgency strategy that they've employed has been enormously successful and I wouldn't have believed it.

 

Doing fuck all regarding a new stadium that's been needed for 20 plus years and actually get applauded for it, has to be one of the greatest tricks ever pulled.

[Kevin D]

Doing fuck all regarding a new stadium that's been needed for 20 plus years and actually get applauded for it, has to be one of the greatest tricks ever pulled.

Absolutely.

 

It's worth pointing out that people going to bat for FSG are 60/70+ year Liverpool fans. Most of my close friends, and the folks on this forum who aren't as negative are proper Liverpool fans.

 

Thats the main reason, I'm genuine stunned we have to keep going over this again and again. I don't talk with my mates anymore about the owners, because who can be arsed going over the same ground, really?

[Numero Veinticinco]

It’s almoat as if I didn’t argue for years on here against the majority of people who wanted to stay at Anfield. It’s almost as if fan groups didn’t do local surveys resulting in local fans wanting to stay at Anfield. Now we have stayed and renovated the Main stand, taking the capacity to a level where only four clubs in the league have bigger grounds and plans to make it the second biggest, it’s some sort of fraud on behalf of FSG.

 

It’s truly fucking bizarre how some of you lads carry on. And you do your cause a disservice by drowning out legitimate concerns with this shit. Take them to task over their mistakes. Put pressure on ticket prices. But twisting everything, including world record signings and stadium renovations into being bad things will just get people to take you less seriously, because you sound like climate change deniers or crazed Trump supporters talking about Obama’s birth certificate.

[Jose Jones]

I don’t think the owners are changing tack at all - I think they will continue to operate in more or less the same way as before. They may loosen the purse strings a little to reflect that they have more faith in this iteration of manager and scouting team, but they’re not going to veer off their current strategy. But let’s be realistic. Unless we find someone with extremely deep pockets and the sort of dodgy profile that could benefit through ownership of a club (see ManCity) or they need a laundering tool a la Abramovich, then we are beholden to owners such as we have now, or potentially worse. Chinese or Saudis would appear to be the only realistic candidates that would give some fans what they want. Is there anyone else out there who would see the club as more than an investment opportunity, and what would their motives be?

I agree with all this.

Although I’m a majority fan ownership type of guy, the current value of the club probably makes that impossible at the moment.

 

FSG have always, always and always will be about the same thing: making the value of the club go up as much as possible.

 

This means that they will increase the stadium size as long as it returns value, they will charge as much as they can get away with for tickets, they will try to maximise commercial revenues and they will spend money on transfers as long as they return value.

 

Being successful makes the club more valuable so they will try to do that, but only up to the point where the potential rewards outweigh the risks. Getting the club in loads of debt will lower the value so they won’t be spending hundreds of millions on players, likewise they won’t pillage the club a la Hicks and Gillett.

 

It’s always been that way, and it always will be under them.

 

We just have to hope that the longer they are involved the smarter they get about football so that we win stuff.

[El Rojo]

Whatever the motivation, I’m delighted that Anfield was redeveloped rather than being replaced by a stadium that looks like it was bought in IKEA.

[aws]

Whatever the motivation, I’m delighted that Anfield was redeveloped rather than being replaced by a stadium that looks like it was bought in IKEA.

Me too. There's not much left of the history and traditions of the club but leaving the stadium would have killed off what's left.

[G Richards]

Jose Jones nails it for me above, out of rep, sorry.

 

They are doing what they said they would do. Woolster provides the best financial analysis on here, and he said they are spending the money we have available. Granted, that analysis is based on the accounts we have available, but at least it is grounded in fact.

 

They are growing the asset and their massive payday will come if and when they decide to sell. Meanwhile, we are there or thereabouts - can’t compete with the money at Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea, but we’re not paupers either, and if we box clever we might be able to give it a go.

 

To box clever we need good football men, and Klopp is about the best thing we have at present. The signs are very good that when he spends a few bob he spends it well. He has a way that he wants to play and it is wonderful. It’s why we love the game. He hasn’t fully assembled the team he has in mind yet, but he is patient, and you can definitely see a man working to a strategy. He won’t spend just to make up the numbers. He will save the money he has until he can get what he wants. He grows players too, and the feel is definitely that we are a team on the up, so the allure is such that we can compete for top Bosman deals.

 

It takes longer than the money-no-object approach at Man City, but when we win the title it will be well earned.

 

FSG aren’t hands on and they don’t pretend they love the game either. No cheesy infomercials sitting by the fireplace with their LFC mugs. They are businessmen, but proper people. They are doing what they said they would do. It’s not love. It’s not a sugar daddy arrangement either. So while I can’t fawn over them, I can’t quite hate them either.

[Ranxerox]

They’re shit....

 

They seem to get a lot of slack because of the riches of City, The Mancs, and Chelsea, yet....

 

Since they’ve been here we’ve finished below Spurs 6 out of 7 times, below the bitters twice, while also finishing below such powerhouses as Leicester, West Ham, Southampton, and Newcastle, only 1 of which won the title.

 

We’re above Spurs now but we could well finish below them again by the end of this season.

 

We’ve won exactly 1 cup which clearly meant nothing to them, while missing out on the CL 5 times in 7 seasons.

 

Throughout they’ve been unwilling or unable to retain our very best talent.

 

They promised to compete with anyone so I don’t think they should get a free pass owing to the mega rich. But even if you want to credit them that their performance in relation to Spurs and the CL serves as a damning indictment.

 

 

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[stringvest]

They’re shit....

 

They seem to get a lot of slack because of the riches of City, The Mancs, and Chelsea, yet....

 

Since they’ve been here we’ve finished below Spurs 6 out of 7 times, below the bitters twice, while also finishing below such powerhouses as Leicester, West Ham, Southampton, and Newcastle, only 1 of which won the title.

 

We’re above Spurs now but we could well finish below them again by the end of this season.

 

We’ve won exactly 1 cup which clearly meant nothing to them, while missing out on the CL 5 times in 7 seasons.

 

Throughout they’ve been unwilling or unable to retain our very best talent.

 

They promised to compete with anyone so I don’t think they should get a free pass owing to the mega rich. But even if you want to credit them that their performance in relation to Spurs and the CL serves as a damning indictment.

 

 

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Spurs is an example of a club that has been managed better, recruited better and scouted better than us. It’s not a money thing where they’re concerned is it? My view is more or less where the Rev is on this one

[dockers_strike]

Spurs is an example of a club that has ..........recruited better and scouted better than us.

 

Is that the same Spurs who actually chased and signed a number of players we actually wanted to sign?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Sky reporting that ticket prices have been frozen again for next season.

[Ranxerox]

Spurs is an example of a club that has been managed better, recruited better and scouted better than us. It’s not a money thing where they’re concerned is it? My view is more or less where the Rev is on this one

You make my point though, Spurs have outperformed us because they are run better and have more ambition than our board.

 

As owners FSG are ultimately responsible for results on the pitch.

 

 

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[moof]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz