Blackburn thread

[Stu Monty]

With 11 great players we can play like this but in relation to football not fighting.

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/74173/Bruce_Lee_s_Philosophy.html

 

Valencia were footballing water. So can we, it just might take time.

[sammya]

With 11 great players we can play like this but in relation to football not fighting.

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/74173/Bruce_Lee_s_Philosophy.html

 

 

Put water into a 442 it becomes a 442, put water into a 352 it becomes a 352, put water into Riise's jug let him drink it in and in 3 hours it becomes remarkably similar to his performances.

[Sangria]

Picking and naming names should not be our way, at least mid season. For the ones who thought our side was good enough this season - whislt I admire the faith - it never was.

To give it to Raffa is bollocks and fucken wrong, he had his hands held behind his back and when you buy your second and third choice or because money dictacts your targets, then you of course one makes mistakes.

Keep the faith it will come good. A few good results and we talk of the League and a bad result and all hell breaks loose.

I believe Raffa knows more than us what the team needs and he will change it and get it right.

19 is coming home and hopefully before them manc cunts win another one. Forever in our shadow.

[Red Nick]

Finnan was at fault for the goal. Already back, he got sucked in towards Carra instead of covering Pederson coming in behind him. I think Finnan's ace, but he fucked up yesterday for the goal, at least.

 

He was playing RM yesterday not RB his normal position

[Red Nick]

This season is making me re-evaluate almost everything I previously thought about the squad, so I wouldn't disagree too much with what you're saying (although I think Steve Finnan has a role to play in a Liverpool title-winning squad).

 

I think both flanks are still relatively weak. We need pacey fullbacks and wingers, all of whom can cross and score (to a greater or lesser degree). However, I also think we need an experienced replacement for Sami (it's too early for the highly promising Danny Boy) and a genuine goal-scorer. That's a lot of holes to fill.

 

Investment or not, I don't want to see Rafa go for any more stop-gap players. He should only be thinking about winning the league next season as far as transfers go.[/QUOTE]

 

Glad to see your comming round to my way of thinking

[BatChainPuller]

Put water into a 442 it becomes a 442, put water into a 352 it becomes a 352, put water into Riise's jug let him drink it in and in 3 hours it becomes remarkably similar to his performances.

 

Made me laugh a lot. I was a fan of Riise and I think he has done a great job for us in previous seasons, but is now clearly well past his best to put it politely.

 

I think the 352 we've adopted is to paper over the shortcomings in the squad - we currently don't have strong enough squad to play 442 effectively.

[Sangria]

This season is making me re-evaluate almost everything I previously thought about the squad, so I wouldn't disagree too much with what you're saying (although I think Steve Finnan has a role to play in a Liverpool title-winning squad).

 

I think both flanks are still relatively weak. We need pacey fullbacks and wingers, all of whom can cross and score (to a greater or lesser degree). However, I also think we need an experienced replacement for Sami (it's too early for the highly promising Danny Boy) and a genuine goal-scorer. That's a lot of holes to fill.

 

Investment or not, I don't want to see Rafa go for any more stop-gap players. He should only be thinking about winning the league next season as far as transfers go.[/QUOTE]

 

Glad to see your comming round to my way of thinking

 

I am seriously worried for Pauls sanity :whistle:

 

Would like to be able to leave out the smileys but everyone is too sensitive on here.

[Neil G]

For consistant success then yeah that's what's needed. It may be possible to win the league with the existing squad (although not this season) but it'd require a monumental effort and all players playing out of their skin for 38 games.

 

Disagree. Part of the armoury of champions is the ability to win games when you're not playing well, and we already have the quality to do that. What we don't always have is the mentality for it.

 

Being as our captain is seemingly unable to encourage and motivate his team-mates when things are going badly, we need more individual players who are guaranteed to put their hand up and not go missing. At the moment the only players we've got like that are Momo, Bellamy, Kuyt and to a lesser extent Garcia and Alonso (although Garcia is inconsistent and Xabi's best efforts are for nothing if his team-mates' lack of movement restricts his passing options). We need more players who want the ball, whether that means hassling the opposition to get it off them, making themselves available to collect the ball from a team-mate, not being afraid to run with the ball at their feet, or making positive and intelligent runs off the ball and continuing to do so even when they don't receive it for a long while.

 

That sort of attitude, combined with a proven ability to play consistently well in the Premiership, is much more important than the quality of players we might sign. The sort of players I have in mind are Nolan, Barton, Etherington, Benayoun, Pedersen (Blackburn), Diop, even Cahill. None of them are what you'd call top quality, but all of them would make a big difference to our ability to grind out results over the course of a season, even if some of them wouldn't necessarily strengthen the first XI.

[KopOut]

Rafa will buy what he can with the money he's got.

 

Traditionally, Liverpool have been known to commonly buy players 'on the fringe' and turn them into greatness: or buy players great in other leagues & countries. It takes time for players to gel, settle & find their innate brilliance.

[Baz1969]

For consistant success then yeah that's what's needed. It may be possible to win the league with the existing squad (although not this season) but it'd require a monumental effort and all players playing out of their skin for 38 games.

 

We have the foundations for a very very good squad but if you had to be brutally honest their are a lot of players you'd get rid of as well.

 

Well said. We need at least 3 top class players in order to finish in the top two. Once we break into the top two I really believe number 19 will follow very quickly afterwards. Until we become consistent and stop losing against teams we should be beating, we will continue to struggle for 3rd or 4th spot and remain a Cup team. Progress in the league must come first above all else - no matter what else we win (except CL) I'll consider the season a failure if we fail to improve on last seasons final position.

[karlos]

We need more players who want the ball

 

I've said this so many times now, it just seems that most are standing around like stunned mullets apart from Bellamy and Kuyt. You can't expect Xabi to put it at your feet from 70 yards each and everytime! You see this with throw-ins with Pennant being a prime example. There have been so many times where I have seen Agger carrying the ball out from his own half frustrated at the lack of options and it more often than not leads to a bad pass. We have to get to basics, we have to go looking for the ball because the ball isn't going to come and look for you.

[Captain]

Rafa will buy what he can with the money he's got.

 

Exactly. It's the reason Alves isn't here, we simply didn't have the money.

[coop]

It will be interesting to see what happens if Rafa does get a substantial transfer budget from DIC if they do invest into the club.

 

The missing out on Alves as been plain for everyone to see and still expect us to go back in for him in the summer.

 

Love him or loathe him Lucas Neill can play in any role in defence and can play comfortably in the centre as well as the full back positions. For the price your going to struggle to find an experienced International defender who is used to the pace of the Premiership other then Neil.

 

The wings as been one of the most dissapointing things for me this season. I had watched and read plenty of Gonzalez and although you have the settling in process he looks nothing like the player i was watching tear apart the Spanish defences last season. Pennant (although i didnt expect as much from him as i did from Gonzalez) just looks out of depth and has already lost the majority of the crowd and is going to struggle to get them back.

 

Before the start of this season i honestly thought we were only 2 players short of a title challenging team (right winger and striker) but like Paul has said its looks far worse then that and the fact of the matter is we are still in need of major rebuilding.

 

Forget January but come the summer its going to be vital. Are we going to once again be bargain basement shopping or are we going for real quality.

 

From what we have remaining of this season we can still make it a very successful season as we are still in all 3 cup competitions and challenging for a Champs Lge spot so its safe to say that we can wait til the end of the season before saying whether or not its been a disaster or not.

[Neil G]

Being as our captain is seemingly unable to encourage and motivate his team-mates when things are going badly, we need more individual players who are guaranteed to put their hand up and not go missing. At the moment the only players we've got like that are Momo, Bellamy, Kuyt and to a lesser extent Garcia and Alonso (although Garcia is inconsistent and Xabi's best efforts are for nothing if his team-mates' lack of movement restricts his passing options).

 

Should just mention, I would obviously add Carra to the list of players who have that attitude, but I was referring specifically to players whose contribution will help us to get goals.

[Paul]

Exactly. It's the reason Alves isn't here, we simply didn't have the money.

 

He did, though. He spent £25m and Alves was available for about half that. He instead chose to buy the range of mostly compromise/pragmatic options that he did. I still don't understand why he sold Djimi for £2m and signed Aurelio, who has been almost constantly injured for three seasons, for about £1.5m - probably on bigger wages. I could go through all his summer signings like that, but there's no point as, a) they're here and we need to get on with it, and b) they haven't had enough time to show what they can do. However, I don't want to see any more haggling - regardless of investment or not. If we've only got the money for one top player, then so be it - we only bring in one player.

[Neil G]

Forget January but come the summer its going to be vital. Are we going to once again be bargain basement shopping or are we going for real quality.

 

This is the 'either or' that most people seem to be putting forward, and I think it's totally misleading.

 

Outside the Mancs, Chelsea and Arsenal, who wouldn't sell us any of their better players, there are very few players in the Premiership who are indisputably 'top quality', however that's defined. Owen, Duff and Lennon are the only three that I can think of. The gulf between the top four and the rest isn't an accident.

 

So for the quality of players you're talking about, we need to look abroad, which then brings us to the question of whether players will be able to adapt to the Premiership. If we want to challenge for the title next season, we need any new additions to be able to hit the ground running. We can't afford to risk them taking time to settle in, however good they might turn out to be. If they don't settle, there's every chance we could be here this time next year, lamenting yet another season of missed opportunities.

 

I really like the look of Alves, and Rafa obviously wants him. The fact that he can play two positions equally effectively is a huge plus. But I can't shake the suspicion that it might take him at least a season to properly get used to the style of the Premiership, if he does at all, which for the money we'd be expected to pay would be a big gamble.

 

Paul and others have put forward the golden rule that any new signings have to be of the highest quality. I'd like to suggest an alternate golden rule, which is that any new signings need to have already proven that they can play consistently well in the Premiership. I believe there are enough affordable players who fit that description, and who can improve our first XI and squad, for us to win the title next season without spending big money.

[Paul]

This is the 'either or' that most people seem to be putting forward, and I think it's totally misleading.

 

Outside the Mancs, Chelsea and Arsenal, who wouldn't sell us any of their better players, there are very few players in the Premiership who are indisputably 'top quality', however that's defined. Owen, Duff and Lennon are the only three that I can think of. The gulf between the top four and the rest isn't an accident.

 

So for the quality of players you're talking about, we need to look abroad, which then brings us to the question of whether players will be able to adapt to the Premiership. If we want to challenge for the title next season, we need any new additions to be able to hit the ground running. We can't afford to risk them taking time to settle in, however good they might turn out to be. If they don't settle, there's every chance we could be here this time next year, lamenting yet another season of missed opportunities.

 

I really like the look of Alves, and Rafa obviously wants him. The fact that he can play two positions equally effectively is a huge plus. But I can't shake the suspicion that it might take him at least a season to properly get used to the style of the Premiership, if he does at all, which for the money we'd be expected to pay would be a big gamble.

 

Paul and others have put forward the golden rule that any new signings have to be of the highest quality. I'd like to suggest an alternate golden rule, which is that any new signings need to have already proven that they can play consistently well in the Premiership. I believe there are enough affordable players who fit that description, and who can improve our first XI and squad, for us to win the title next season without spending big money.

 

But I don't think any of the players you named above would improve us, Neil. We need real, genuine talent, not workmanlike, prosaic graft. You can buy top players with character, but you can't turn grafters like those you mentioned into top players.

 

I'm not really into naming names as I know very little about players beyond Liverpool, and certainly beyond these shores. However, the paper toady was listing possibilities for Chelsea to sign as cover for Terry and the name Luisao came up for £8m. Now he is player I'd like to see next to Carra as Sami's replacement. Fucking solid, great in the air, fast and a threat at set pieces. That would be a great piece of business at £8m, but I'd happily see us go over £10m for a player of his quality.

[derykw]

We`re in exactly the same position we were 2 years ago. Buying quantity over genuine quality and it still pisses me off that we didn`t take advantage of winning the Euro Cup. When Rafa first came we needed a goalscorer to replace owen a quality right winger/midfielder and a top quality left back amongst other needs. two and a half years later and about £30m lighter we still need the same.

[Zippy]

Think many of us - me included - were fooled by last years run of results into thinking we were better than we are. Now I think possibly the opposite is happening we are thinking we are worse than we really are. IMO we just lack two or three top quality additions (out and out goalscorer, left midfielder/winger and possibly right winger to cover when Gerrard plays in the middle).

 

I think we also need a replacement or cover for JAR (maybe Neill will be it) and a squad defensive midfielder for when Sissoko is unavailable.

 

 

Paul - I see what you are saying about Rafa having the money to buy Alves in his overall budget but he obviously felt we still needed a range of players to get his squad nearer where he wants it. As a result he missed out on one of his top targets, whereas with more money he would have been able to do both.

[derykw]

Think many of us - me included - were fooled by last years run of results into thinking we were better than we are. Now I think possibly the opposite is happening we are thinking we are worse than we really are. IMO we just lack two or three top quality additions (out and out goalscorer, left midfielder/winger and possibly right winger to cover when Gerrard plays in the middle).

 

I think we also need a replacement or cover for JAR (maybe Neill will be it) and a squad defensive midfielder for when Sissoko is unavailable.

 

 

Paul - I see what you are saying about Rafa having the money to buy Alves in his overall budget but he obviously felt we still needed a range of players to get his squad nearer where he wants it. As a result he missed out on one of his top targets, whereas with more money he would have been able to do both.

 

 

It`s all very well padding out the squad but the actual team is more important. Your core of about 13/14 first teamers have to be top quality simply because injury permitting they will play the most games and certainly in all the bigger games. If he is honest with himself I bet Rafa bitterly regrets not pushing the boat out for Alves and wasting nearly £7m on a journeyman. I reckon it will cost about £20m to have any chance of getting Alves now and instead of the clear field we had last summer we would now be battling it out with Real, Barca and possibly Chelsea. Our recent transfer policy is never going to win us the league and it`s even more galling that for the first time in three years Chelsea are looking fallible but we haven`t got a team good enough to take advantage.

[Neil G]

But I don't think any of the players you named above would improve us, Neil. We need real, genuine talent, not workmanlike, prosaic graft. You can buy top players with character, but you can't turn grafters like those you mentioned into top players.

 

You're being unfair on them. They're more than just grafters, apart from maybe Diop who would nevertheless be great cover for Momo, which we desperately need. As a player who'll put steel and energy into our midfield every time he plays, he's irreplaceable and we're really missing him at the moment.

 

The rest are all talented players who would make a difference to our team and squad from day one, because they've already done it here. Etherington and Benayoun are both great at running with the ball at pace, better than anyone we currently have bar Gerrard and Kewell, who's injured so often that he no longer counts as a squad asset for me. Etherington is a great dribbler with a fantastic cross, while Benayoun is one of the most composed and intelligent players I've seen in a long while - he'll never skin three players in a row, but he's fantastic at carrying the ball with his head up, looking for runs from team-mates and playing the right ball at the right moment. Pedersen is a genuine goal threat on either flank, while the other three bring that from midfield.

 

I'm not really into naming names as I know very little about players beyond Liverpool, and certainly beyond these shores. However, the paper toady was listing possibilities for Chelsea to sign as cover for Terry and the name Luisao came up for £8m. Now he is player I'd like to see next to Carra as Sami's replacement. Fucking solid, great in the air, fast and a threat at set pieces. That would be a great piece of business at £8m, but I'd happily see us go over £10m for a player of his quality.

 

It's different with defenders, as it's a position where it's easier to adapt to the style of the Premiership than for midfielders or strikers. I don't agree that we need another centre back - Agger will be one of the best defenders we've had in decades if he's allowed to fulfil his potential, and to cut him out of the team now would jeopardise that. There are a number of other positions with much more room for improvement right now.

 

My knowledge of players from other leagues isn't particularly extensive either, but I do know that any midfielder or striker we sign from abroad will carry the risk that they won't cut it here. I'm obviously not saying that we should never sign anyone from outside this country again, but to pin our title hopes exclusively on top players from abroad is a big and unnecessary gamble.

[Cardie]

My knowledge of players from other leagues isn't particularly extensive either, but I do know that any midfielder or striker we sign from abroad will carry the risk that they won't cut it here. I'm obviously not saying that we should never sign anyone from outside this country again, but to pin our title hopes exclusively on top players from abroad is a big and unnecessary gamble.

 

That's true of any signing home or abroad, take Pennant for example.

[Neil G]

That's true of any signing home or abroad, take Pennant for example.

 

No it's not, not if the player in question has already done the business in the Premiership for several seasons. Pennant hadn't done that.

[Cardie]

No it's not, not if the player in question has already done the business in the Premiership for several seasons. Pennant hadn't done that.

 

So you're saying a player who has performed at a premiership club for several seasons is guarenteed to perform if he moves to another club?

[Dirk]

So you're saying a player who has performed at a premiership club for several seasons is guarenteed to perform if he moves to another club?

 

Paul Stewart

Stan Collymore

Nigel Clough