Watford Away - Sunday 20th Dec 1.30pm

[Paco]

I dont think Henderson should be Captain but there is a place for him in a good side once we sign a few.

His absence at our title run was very noticeable.

Back to the Watford game though and its easy to say we need a whole team when we need a small number of the right sort of players,ones with fight and heart and not without quality alongside a decent GK. A good GK will make a big difference to the whole set up.

he could have fired some decent balls into box for benteke earlier in the game but I too thought the front line that terrorised city and chelsea would do for watford.

[ZonkoVille77]

 

 

Two of my over-riding memories of this game will be Can pretending to be injured instead of getting back to defend when they were attacking and him letting the lad go on our left before the cross for the third because he couldn't be arsed tracking him. For all Henderson's faults you wouldn't see him do either.

Actually you're right. He was shocking for that. We just have a bunch of fannies playing for us in every position, bar maybe RB.

[Turkish Delight]

Actually you're right. He was shocking for that. We just have a bunch of fannies playing for us in every position, bar maybe RB.

We do. There was a time when our squad was full of players who had been captains at a club or for their country. That 2009 team was full of them. Gerrard, Carragher, Reina, Arbeloa, Mascherano, Hyypia, Agger, Alonso, Benayoun, Kuyt and Torres had all captained somewhere. We've gone full circle now and don't have a single leader.

 

The interesting thing for me is that leadership, character and the ability to fit in with a certain style of play are not things you can easily rely on stats for and they're things we consistently don't consider when signing players.

[Phoenix]

We do. There was a time when our squad was full of players who had been captains at a club or for their country. That 2009 team was full of them. Gerrard, Carragher, Reina, Arbeloa, Mascherano, Hyypia, Agger, Alonso, Benayoun, Kuyt and Torres had all captained somewhere. We've gone full circle now and don't have a single leader.

 

The interesting thing for me is that leadership, character and the ability to fit in with a certain style of play are not things you can easily rely on stats for and they're things we consistently don't consider when signing players.

 

There is a theory that players with such attributes were deliberately removed to avoid an inexperienced manager to be undermined/questioned.

[Jairzinho]

There is a theory that players with such attributes were deliberately removed to avoid an inexperienced manager to be undermined/questioned.

 

What a wild conspiracy theory.

[an tha]

For my money our players can turn it on against teams who probably expect to beat us and who allow us a bit of time and space.

 

When we face teams who are 'underdogs' and who get in our faces and get stuck into us a little and look to unsettle us and use a bit of physicallity we basically don't have the stomach for the fight.

 

I don't think I have ever seen a Liverpool team with such a weak spine both in terms of the actual spine of the team and the collective spines of the men in it.

 

We need an injection of grit, fight and some leadership.

[BCM]

 

I don't think I have ever seen a Liverpool team with such a weak spine both in terms of the actual spine of the team and the collective spines of the men in it.

 

 

 

Bang on the money

[Faustus]

An tha has hit the nail on the head there. What I think is equally apparent is the lack of game intelligence. Lucas seems to be the only player in the team with a bit of nous ie breaking up play with tactical fouls.

 

Obviously when I say 'game intelligence', I mean more than that, but as a team we're just not cute enough. Yesterday at the beginning of the second half, we won a free-kick on the halfway line and there was a Watford player on top of the ball straight away to prevent us from taking a quick one and building any kind of momentum. You saw them yesterday and they were shit hot with the quick throws while we stand about for ages, the lad holding the ball picking his arse as he waits for the full-back to trot over.

 

Take the first goal yesterday. Why te fuck weren't any of our lot appealing? If you're on the pitch and regardless of whether you think your keeper was fouled or just dropped a bollock, you should be round that ref straight away, planting that seed of doubt and make him contemplate evening things up. A mate of mine is a pretty good player and once played alongside Jan Molby at centre half and he said Molby had a word with him beforehand to appeal everything, even if the ref made the right call, just to make him think twice. He said that's exactly what Molby did and it was an effective tactic because they got more than their fair share of decisions they didn't deserve. Plus, I suppose it shows the mentality of the man to have that drive to win even in a charity game. What did our lot do yesterday? Heads down, shoulders slumped, slow march back to the centre circle.

 

The camera cut to an incident yesterday in the first half when a player was down receiving treatment and you saw Ighalo geeing their lot up, passing on advice to the other players. I can't recall the last time I saw do something similar during the game.

 

As a team, we're just far too nice and their are too many brain dead footballers who are in desperate need of being talked through the game by an older head. Can and Moreno are two in particular, I think. It's criminal on three fronts how we haven't signed enough players who can do this, that some like Skrtel haven't naturally assumed this role and that someone like Milner has been a massive disappointment in this field.

[BCM]

An tha has hit the nail on the head there. What I think is equally apparent is the lack of game intelligence. Lucas seems to be the only player in the team with a bit of nous ie breaking up play with tactical fouls.

 

Obviously when I say 'game intelligence', I mean more than that, but as a team we're just not cute enough. Yesterday at the beginning of the second half, we won a free-kick on the halfway line and there was a Watford player on top of the ball straight away to prevent us from taking a quick one and building any kind of momentum. You saw them yesterday and they were shit hot with the quick throws while we stand about for ages, the lad holding the ball picking his arse as he waits for the full-back to trot over.

 

Take the first goal yesterday. Why te fuck weren't any of our lot appealing? If you're on the pitch and regardless of whether you think your keeper was fouled or just dropped a bollock, you should be round that ref straight away, planting that seed of doubt and make him contemplate evening things up. A mate of mine is a pretty good player and once played alongside Jan Molby at centre half and he said Molby had a word with him beforehand to appeal everything, even if the ref made the right call, just to make him think twice. He said that's exactly what Molby did and it was an effective tactic because they got more than their fair share of decisions they didn't deserve. Plus, I suppose it shows the mentality of the man to have that drive to win even in a charity game. What did our lot do yesterday? Heads down, shoulders slumped, slow march back to the centre circle.

 

The camera cut to an incident yesterday in the first half when a player was down receiving treatment and you saw Ighalo geeing their lot up, passing on advice to the other players. I can't recall the last time I saw do something similar during the game.

 

As a team, we're just far too nice and their are too many brain dead footballers who are in desperate need of being talked through the game by an older head. Can and Moreno are two in particular, I think. It's criminal on three fronts how we haven't signed enough players who can do this, that some like Skrtel haven't naturally assumed this role and that someone like Milner has been a massive disappointment in this field.

 

Running out of Rep here, Great post

[Paco]

For my money our players can turn it on against teams who probably expect to beat us and who allow us a bit of time and space.

 

When we face teams who are 'underdogs' and who get in our faces and get stuck into us a little and look to unsettle us and use a bit of physicallity we basically don't have the stomach for the fight.

 

I don't think I have ever seen a Liverpool team with such a weak spine both in terms of the actual spine of the team and the collective spines of the men in it.

 

We need an injection of grit, fight and some leadership.

just like Bournemouth Watford Palace Newcastle Sunderland we can beat city arsenal chelsea united on any given day then lose to watford palace newcastle in thr next breath.

 

our next decent performance is likely to be arsenal or united in january.

[Paco]

There is a theory that players with such attributes were deliberately removed to avoid an inexperienced manager to be undermined/questioned.

or that they were high earners in their 30s is more likely

[BCM]

or that they were high earners in their 30s is more likely

 

Either way it was a stupid decision.

[ben48]

 

An tha has hit the nail on the head there. What I think is equally apparent is the lack of game intelligence. Lucas seems to be the only player in the team with a bit of nous ie breaking up play with tactical fouls.

 

Obviously when I say 'game intelligence', I mean more than that, but as a team we're just not cute enough. Yesterday at the beginning of the second half, we won a free-kick on the halfway line and there was a Watford player on top of the ball straight away to prevent us from taking a quick one and building any kind of momentum. You saw them yesterday and they were shit hot with the quick throws while we stand about for ages, the lad holding the ball picking his arse as he waits for the full-back to trot over.

 

Take the first goal yesterday. Why te fuck weren't any of our lot appealing? If you're on the pitch and regardless of whether you think your keeper was fouled or just dropped a bollock, you should be round that ref straight away, planting that seed of doubt and make him contemplate evening things up. A mate of mine is a pretty good player and once played alongside Jan Molby at centre half and he said Molby had a word with him beforehand to appeal everything, even if the ref made the right call, just to make him think twice. He said that's exactly what Molby did and it was an effective tactic because they got more than their fair share of decisions they didn't deserve. Plus, I suppose it shows the mentality of the man to have that drive to win even in a charity game. What did our lot do yesterday? Heads down, shoulders slumped, slow march back to the centre circle.

 

The camera cut to an incident yesterday in the first half when a player was down receiving treatment and you saw Ighalo geeing their lot up, passing on advice to the other players. I can't recall the last time I saw do something similar during the game.

 

As a team, we're just far too nice and their are too many brain dead footballers who are in desperate need of being talked through the game by an older head. Can and Moreno are two in particular, I think. It's criminal on three fronts how we haven't signed enough players who can do this, that some like Skrtel haven't naturally assumed this role and that someone like Milner has been a massive disappointment in this field.Spot on mate.

[VladimirIlyich]

he could have fired some decent balls into box for benteke earlier in the game but I too thought the front line that terrorised city and chelsea would do for watford.

Considering Benteke didnt come on until into the second half,thats a little bit unfair. Klopp made a large cock up with no strikers in the starting line up and grossly underestimated Watford despite most us knowing exactly how they were going to play.

I do get annoyed at most modern managers being unwilling to start two strikers on occasion when it would help the team.

A poor showing by Klopp as much as the players in my view. I am certain he is the man for the job but allowing the previous manager to spend so much in the Summer when it was obvious he was on a short fuse,and his abysmal record in the transfer market,was absolutely baffling.

There has to be transfer market activity even if selling to buy is needed.

[stringvest]

Not about the match as such, but on the train back from Watford to Clapham there were four lads sitting behind me drinking cans and talking loudly about the game.  All had Southern accents, but were Liverpool supporters.  Then one of them talking about the need to get more physicality in the team mentions "we need to sign Purple Aki".  The others mumbled in agreement. 

 

These lads, all clearly southern wools, know about Purple Aki?   The power of t'internet fan forum right there ladies and gentlemen.  

 

they were all talking utter shite about the game as well, so I'm assuming they're on the TLW FF most days.

[Harry Squatter]

Purple Aki is well known in Cambridge thanks to me telling everyone I worked with about him when I lived down there. I also got my hair cut in St Ives by Ely once and the barber knew Alfie Lewis, a kickboxing champion. He then asked me if I'd heard of Purple Aki.

[stringvest]

Purple Aki is well known in Cambridge thanks to me telling everyone I worked with about him when I lived down there. I also got my hair cut in St Ives by Ely once and the barber knew Alfie Lewis, a kickboxing champion. He then asked me if I'd heard of Purple Aki.

 

not what you want to hear when dressed in a cape with a cutthroat razor at your ear,

[Dr. J]

 

 It was a defeat to Watford at Vicarage Road in 1970 that prompted Bill Shankly to rip the heart out of that team. That process was made more difficult because several of the players he dispensed with had served him and Liverpool well and were regarded as club legends. Klopp has no such worries: he will be getting rid of players who have fallen short of the necessary standards, not those who set them.

 

From Tony Barret. It's the truth - play for 40 points and start dumping as many of these gutless cunts as possible, starting in January. Enough is enough, by now Klopp has seen what everyone is capable of and ridding the squad of the worst offenders, at whatever the financial loss, might encourage the borderline few to realise they'll never find a better home than Liverpool.

[stringvest]

From Tony Barret. It's the truth - play for 40 points and start dumping as many of these gutless cunts as possible, starting in January. Enough is enough, by now Klopp has seen what everyone is capable of and ridding the squad of the worst offenders, at whatever the financial loss, might encourage the borderline few to realise they'll never find a better home than Liverpool.

 

spot on that.  I'd almost write the season off.  Scarify the team as well as the pitch.

[an tha]

spot on that. I'd almost write the season off. Scarify the team as well as the pitch.

I am of the view that we should jib all the shite we don't need as soon as January rolls around...

 

Get in as many players as we can (surely we can attract a few to come and play for Klopp)

 

Even having 5 or 6 new players in the team

I honestly can't see them doing any worse than the current shower would do for rest of season so it is a free roll....

 

They will have half a season to get used to Klopp and what he wants and to gel and then next season we are good to go with maybe a couple of additions.

 

I think it is better than waiting until what won't be a great summer to make wholesale chnages due to the euros and the effect it has on pre seasons and the market.

 

Do it now...we and Klopp surely know we can't keep this shower as it is.

[Boss]

An tha has hit the nail on the head there. What I think is equally apparent is the lack of game intelligence. Lucas seems to be the only player in the team with a bit of nous ie breaking up play with tactical fouls.

 

Obviously when I say 'game intelligence', I mean more than that, but as a team we're just not cute enough. Yesterday at the beginning of the second half, we won a free-kick on the halfway line and there was a Watford player on top of the ball straight away to prevent us from taking a quick one and building any kind of momentum. You saw them yesterday and they were shit hot with the quick throws while we stand about for ages, the lad holding the ball picking his arse as he waits for the full-back to trot over.

 

Take the first goal yesterday. Why te fuck weren't any of our lot appealing? If you're on the pitch and regardless of whether you think your keeper was fouled or just dropped a bollock, you should be round that ref straight away, planting that seed of doubt and make him contemplate evening things up. A mate of mine is a pretty good player and once played alongside Jan Molby at centre half and he said Molby had a word with him beforehand to appeal everything, even if the ref made the right call, just to make him think twice. He said that's exactly what Molby did and it was an effective tactic because they got more than their fair share of decisions they didn't deserve. Plus, I suppose it shows the mentality of the man to have that drive to win even in a charity game. What did our lot do yesterday? Heads down, shoulders slumped, slow march back to the centre circle.

 

The camera cut to an incident yesterday in the first half when a player was down receiving treatment and you saw Ighalo geeing their lot up, passing on advice to the other players. I can't recall the last time I saw do something similar during the game.

 

As a team, we're just far too nice and their are too many brain dead footballers who are in desperate need of being talked through the game by an older head. Can and Moreno are two in particular, I think. It's criminal on three fronts how we haven't signed enough players who can do this, that some like Skrtel haven't naturally assumed this role and that someone like Milner has been a massive disappointment in this field.

 

Superb post. Spot on.

[Paco]

spot on that. I'd almost write the season off. Scarify the team as well as the pitch.

the season is a write off in so much as klopp doesnt have to achieve anything this season but there's cups to be won and you can be certain he ll be looking to win them.

[BCM]

I am of the view that we should jib all the shite we don't need as soon as January rolls around...

 

Get in as many players as we can (surely we can attract a few to come and play for Klopp)

 

Even having 5 or 6 new players in the team

I honestly can't see them doing any worse than the current shower would do for rest of season so it is a free roll....

 

They will have half a season to get used to Klopp and what he wants and to gel and then next season we are good to go with maybe a couple of additions.

 

I think it is better than waiting until what won't be a great summer to make wholesale chnages due to the euros and the effect it has on pre seasons and the market.

 

Do it now...we and Klopp surely know we can't keep this shower as it is.

 

Problem with that is, the owners fascination in buying youth instead of experience. This team is dying for some wise heads to bring them on.

 

If they keep buying players who have no experience of winning or leaders, you cant be surprised when the team folds when the chips are down.

[an tha]

Problem with that is, the owners fascination in buying youth instead of experience. This team is dying for some wise heads to bring them on.

 

If they keep buying players who have no experience of winning or leaders, you cant be surprised when the team folds when the chips are down.

I would hope Klopp will tell them what is what and what kind of players he needs.

 

I would hope they listen

 

If we keep buying the types we have been we are going nowhere fast

[Captain]

I think they will listen. It would make no sense changing managers otherwise. Plus, Rodgers was an unmitigated disaster in the transfer market.