Greece

[Stu Monty]

Touched a nerve here you dont know your own premise? Whats the widely accepted meaning, I dont know, you dont know, MPs talk about it a lot but they have a democracy between themselves whereAs we do not and a democracy betwenn themself is not a democracy anymore than kim jong ils democracy is a democracy the very fact you cant answer reveals the problem, weve been using a word no one understands except those who have a monopoly on it.

 

People voting things, generally through representatives is a widely understood meaning of democracy. You're arguing to define it in a way that I'm pretty sure literally nobody else other than you, even going back to the Greeks, recognises as the meaning of the word.

[Jairzinho]

Touched a nerve here you dont know your own premise? Whats the widely accepted meaning, I dont know, you dont know, MPs talk about it a lot but they have a democracy between themselves whereAs we do not and a democracy betwenn themself is not a democracy anymore than kim jong ils democracy is a democracy the very fact you cant answer reveals the problem, weve been using a word no one understands except those who have a monopoly on it.

 

No, Dennis, you haven't touched a nerve. It can just be tedious discussing things with you. It's isn't a case of not being able to answer you, it's a case of not really wanting to.

 

In the sense that I used the word in "Social Democracy", I mean Socialism (or more accurately some of the fundamental aspects or ideals of Socialism, rather than actually removing capitalism) achieved by representative democracy. Although the influence of capitalism is poisonous, and limits democracy, the people still have some control over the fundamental principles which govern them. This isn't the same as North Korea, as you're well aware.

[dennis tooth]

People voting things, generally through representatives is a widely understood meaning of democracy. You're arguing to define it in a way that I'm pretty sure literally nobody else other than you, even going back to the Greeks, recognises as the meaning of the word.

Yeah thats what happens when an apple falls on your head and no one gets it.

 

Things just fall to their rightful place became gravity physics and nuclear power, isaac didnt get us here by people telling him no one ever described things falling like that reductionism of a problem he employed to deduce from his observations.

Democracy is a concept, thats why its not apparent, a concept that until todays technology had no realisation, like time travel is a concept, even maybe realised to so e degree by astronaughts orbiting the earth but its not a true realisation like we mean unless we have a machine for travelling through time like hg wells.

Well we have the tools for this, have had for some time now its just fear but the hers will move when they see other grazers on the sweeter grass of freedom, true and unrealised until someone gets me. I was rooting for you.

[dennis tooth]

No, Dennis, you haven't touched a nerve. It can just be tedious discussing things with you. It's isn't a case of not being able to answer you, it's a case of not really wanting to.

 

In the sense that I used the word in "Social Democracy", I mean Socialism (or more accurately some of the fundamental aspects or ideals of Socialism, rather than actually removing capitalism) achieved by representative democracy. Although the influence of capitalism is poisonous, and limits democracy, the people still have some control over the fundamental principles which govern them. This isn't the same as North Korea, as you're well aware.

Sorry, whats the difference between a social democracy and just a democracy? Seems meaningless, can you clear this up, a bit vague, regardless, is there a snapshot somewhere you can point to as in, an ideal maybe 1930s germany or wherever where this has occurred in the way you generally approve and got all your boxes ticked? Where is it now, is there a way you can build that without it just being a temporary shelter that will be removed?

[dennis tooth]

I take it to get this goal is sort involves us doing nothing and just hoping some immortal leaders put this in place for us and never die so we can go back to working for da man and just complaining without having to do nothing and just waiting for the government to drop everything out the sky?

[Jairzinho]

It just describes an ideology and a means of achieving it. Why are you pretending to be stupid?

 

Much of Scandinavia now. Attlee's Britain.

 

Of course there is resistance. A social democracy doesn't offer the same opportunities for rich people to steal resources. The Danish fella I spoke to earlier mentioned a degree of separation between capitalism and democracy, and that they aren't involved in blowing up the Middle East, largely because the people of Denmark wouldn't put up with it.

[Jairzinho]

I take it to get this goal is sort involves us doing nothing and just hoping some immortal leaders put this in place for us and never die so we can go back to working for da man and just complaining without having to do nothing and just waiting for the government to drop everything out the sky?

 

No.

 

Mind you, you've got some fucking gall considering the ambiguity and level of secrecy that shrouds your political idelogy.

 

And you haven't even heard of Rojava, you big fraud.

[dennis tooth]

It just describes an ideology and a means of achieving it. Why are you pretending to be stupid?

 

Much of Scandinavia now. Attlee's Britain.

 

Of course there is resistance. A social democracy doesn't offer the same opportunities for rich people to steal resources. The Danish fella I spoke to earlier mentioned a degree of separation between capitalism and democracy, and that they aren't involved in blowing up the Middle East, largely because the people of Denmark wouldn't put up with it.

Sacandinavia is not a country. Let me know though.

 

No i havent heard of it rojava but im sure others are also putting one and one together which far from making me a fraud, additional independant findings should help verify.

[dennis tooth]

Secrecy? Thats just you misunderstanding me.

[dennis tooth]

Atlee?

 

Well if its a great solution, whats happened to it? Looks like whats left of it just slipped out ian duncan smiths arse without making a sound.

Its failed before lets do it again.

 

Why has it failed? Power was never given only leased then taken back as is always when you rely on representatives its human nature to abuse power herein lies the folly, power must be diluted and not centred to flow correct, the population cannot be treated like children waiting for mummy and daddy any more.

[Section_31]

Christine Lagarde, the International Monetary Fund managing director who provoked an angry reaction from the Greek people after telling them to pay their taxes, does not pay tax on her own salary, it has emerged.

 

Ms Lagarde was forced to publish an embarrassing climbdown on her Facebook page over the weekend after being bombarded by hundreds of Greek people who felt insulted by her suggestion that the country’s crisis was partly due to “all these people in Greece who are trying to escape tax”.

 

However, on Tuesday she had to admit that her $467,940 (£300,000) annual salary and $83,760 of additional allowances are entirely tax-free as the IMF is an international organisation.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Not seen this before, very good interview. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNItYoJhgmk

 

 

So what is he implying? Is he saying Germany and France knowing their banks to be in trouble and knowing their peoples reactions to another crisis offered money to Greece who they knew could not handle such debt, when Greece defaults, it is Greece who takes the blame and the taxpayers of France and Germany don't hold their own fucked up financial sector accountable when its their money propping up yet another bubble. 

[Red Phoenix]

Just my own opinion : The IMF is a US-controlled (only country with veto power), parasitic piece of filth.

 

I'd say it's vampiric, but if real vampires existed, I'm sure I'd have more respect for them than I do for that fucking scum organization.

[Anubis]

Just my own opinion : The IMF is a US-controlled (only country with veto power), parasitic piece of filth.

 

I'd say it's vampiric, but if real vampires existed, I'm sure I'd have more respect for them than I do for that fucking scum organization.

 

 

If The Count reads your post he will be deeply offended.

[SasaS]

I miss the Count.

[Strontium]

Christine Lagarde, the International Monetary Fund managing director who provoked an angry reaction from the Greek people after telling them to pay their taxes, does not pay tax on her own salary, it has emerged.

 

There was a whole thread about this. She's a diplomat, and therefore prohibited from paying tax on her salary under Article 34 of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations.

[Stu Monty]

There was a whole thread about this. She's a diplomat, and therefore prohibited from paying tax on her salary under Article 34 of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations.

I'm sure her records from when she was chairman of an international law firm will be flawless on tax.

 

If there's one thing the international finance community hate it's people avoiding tax.

[magicrat]

There was a whole thread about this. She's a diplomat, and therefore prohibited from paying tax on her salary under Article 34 of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations.

I'm surprised she doesn't earn more. Most merchant bankers wouldn't get out of bed for her salary 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

As I make it pretty obvious from my post, my evidence is anegdotal, i.e. I know this from talking to them, reading their posts and discussing with them on forums and on social media, reading their comments and reading and watching various statements and testimonials in the media. Again, as I said, this can you believe what they have done to us attitude is what gets on my nerves most in all this. And this attitude is prevalent among the Greek people in the sources available to me. If you can provide evidence to the contrary, I would be indebted to you, as their attitude is seriously testing my sympathy for them, which is something I don't like to feel.  

I was only asking because several of your posts are full of "the Greeks say this" and "the Greeks think that", to the extent that I was wondering whether you live in Greece.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Atlee?

 

Well if its a great solution, whats happened to it? Looks like whats left of it just slipped out ian duncan smiths arse without making a sound.

Its failed before lets do it again.

 

Why has it failed? Power was never given only leased then taken back as is always when you rely on representatives its human nature to abuse power herein lies the folly, power must be diluted and not centred to flow correct, the population cannot be treated like children waiting for mummy and daddy any more.

Hmm...  I see why Jairz wanted to swerve this flapdoodle.

 

As all adults know, revolution is a process, not an event.  Countries can be more or less democratic at different times in their history.  Obviously, when progressive forces are riding high, the nasty bastards are waiting to strike back and vice versa.  Just because Thatcher defeated the miners, doesn't mean the democratic project has been proven to have failed.  The trick is to keep fighting for democracy, rather than whinge "but it failed before" whilst presenting your well-lubed arse at the Bullingdon Club.

 

I get knocked down. I get up again. You're never gonna keep me down.

[Red Phoenix]

If The Count reads your post he will be deeply offended.

 

I meant the more evil type of vampires. I quite like the decent ones in fiction. Blade, Whedon's Angel, Selene from Underworld, etc. And vampires are at least supposed to be in need of blood, the parasitic fuckers at the IMF just cause their carnage for the hell of it (and greed.)

[tokyojoe]

The Euro is about to collapse but it should never have existed in the first place.

 

Texas is moving all it's gold back from NY and offering it's own safe depository to other States.

 

They are lapping it up.

 

This Federal lark is disapearing and fast.

[Nightcat]

 

[dennis tooth]

Hmm... I see why Jairz wanted to swerve this flapdoodle.

 

As all adults know, revolution is a process, not an event. Countries can be more or less democratic at different times in their history. Obviously, when progressive forces are riding high, the nasty bastards are waiting to strike back and vice versa. Just because Thatcher defeated the miners, doesn't mean the democratic project has been proven to have failed. The trick is to keep fighting for democracy, rather than whinge "but it failed before" whilst presenting your well-lubed arse at the Bullingdon Club.

 

I get knocked down. I get up again. You're never gonna keep me down.

Yeah Im ending the fight tho.

If atlees socialism experiment protected the poor where is the protection? Its not protection because you are relying on government to protect, mortal humans who get old and die, again socialism failed and is now extinct as without strong enough unions it cannot reproduce, socialism is firing blanks, going the government with a begging bowl asking for the crumbs off the loaf they stole from you, a trick of consent and contract, that is as void as a ppi bank scam.

[Section_31]

Yeah Im ending the fight tho.

If atlees socialism experiment protected the poor where is the protection? Its not protection because you are relying on government to protect, mortal humans who get old and die, again socialism failed and is now extinct as without strong enough unions it cannot reproduce, socialism is firing blanks, going the government with a begging bowl asking for the crumbs off the loaf they stole from you, a trick of consent and contract, that is as void as a ppi bank scam.

 

I think left wing politics and economics are always the more progressive, right wing economics leads to what we've got now - a large amount of wealth concentrated in a few places, left wing economics - done properly - results in more people having that wealth to spread around. 

 

These days, we'd consider pre-80s American economics to be socialist, with a 90% tax rate for the rich and heavily unionised manufacturing jobs, worked out pretty well for them. 

 

For some reason, our populations seem to be easily coraled into letting the right shit in their mouth, and that only seems to change after a cataclysmic event like a war. 

 

It's obscene, really, that under Atlee's watch we were able to immunise generations of kids and wipe out diseases, build hospitals and schools and housing, yet years before people were starving to death in cold houses owned by slum landlords. Yet it was within our ability and our finances to change all that, but we never. What changed? A combination of the threat of lots of out of work men who knew how to use guns and had nothing to lose, and academic visionaries at the top.