Keir Starmer

[Jairzinho]

12 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I was wrong on Starmer. 

 

I didn't know what he'd turn out to be but felt he at least deserved a crack of the whip, but he's shown himself to have absolutely no convictions at all.

 

I'm all for being pragmatic - to an extent - to try and get into power, as that's the only way you can shake things up - but there comes a time where your politics and policies are so compromised that there's no point you being in power anyway.

 

I'm 41 and I've lived under the Tories most of my life, surely there's something better out there than Tory or Tory light? 

 

Fuck this shit. 

 

Yeah, likewise.

 

I thought he'd at least be competent even if it was quite clear that he was going to move away from a lot of the policies of the Corbyn era. He promised he wouldn't, but it was fairly obvious he was lying at the time. I didn't think he would be quite so vigilant at gutting the party of the left either.

 

The red wall aren't coming back for this version of Labour. They're just not. A London based lawyer who campaigned for remain was always going to be an appalling choice to win them back, and he's been even worse than expected. And the left in big cities will only stay for so long. The polls suggest many are already drifting back to the Green party as it appears to be the only party to the left of centre. Lots of young people will go back to not bothering to vote. And in rural areas the Lib Dems will increase their vote as well. 

 

Just a complete and utter shit show at a time of incredible importance.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

18 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

The worse thing is,he genuinely believes that sucking upto the likes of Murdoch will get him anywhere.

The likes of the sun.and the mail genuinley despises everything the labour party should stand for.

Giving them an interview just shows where his principles lie.

Here's an excellent thread about why there's no need to suck up to the S*n.

Even if every adult who gets their news primarily from the rag were to go against all their years of conditioning and vote Labour, it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference electorally.

 

[Section_31]

24 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Without making it about corbyn,I think a lot of people saw at least a chunk that maybe,just maybe,there may be a different way.

I genuinely never really thought he would make a great leader,I thought he would maybe shift the party to where it should be,and let some young take over. 

Brian reader was hinting in the mirror on sat that he wouldnt be shocked to see Burnham as leader at some point.

 

The interesting thing to watch with Corbyn, and the only political figure who's comparable in recent years, is Donald Trump (not that I'm comparing the two), is how much it terrifies the establishment when you're not from 'the establishment'.

 

Trump had never been a Mayor, or a governor, or a senator. When you are, things are done and said to you while you're coming through the ranks. You learn to play the game, do as you're told, keep your head down and play within the boundaries. Things look a bit different, but everything essentially stays the same (look how quickly the yanks have gone  back to warmongering under Biden).  

 

Same with Corbyn, he was the ultimate outsider. He'd not been a frontbencher, couldn't be controlled, wouldn't compromise, for any misgivings I may have had about his qualities as a leader - that was brilliant, and unprecedented.

 

You can see with how Starmer is writing for the 'S*n' and trying to publicly manhandle 'the left', that he's basically now engaged in an 18 month job interview. He's being observed by the Barclays and the Murdochs to see whether or not he's got what it takes to continue their agenda, while still giving the plebs the illusion of change. So far, he's performing well on that score.

 

The S*n did help win it for Blair, and they - if not literally, but their readership and allies - could win it for Starmer. And that's a compromise too far in any right thinking person's book. 

 

I'd genuinely love to see what would happen if you set up something like a 'Liverpool party', where disgruntled Labour MPs were encouraged to jump ship, but instead of a new party with national politics, they just represented their own city. I think people here would vote for that, and no mistake. 

[Creator Supreme]

Is there no chance we could chuck our hand in with the Taff's and secede from the UK? Drakeford seems a good bloke (even speaking as a Green), and I wouldn't mind being a Taff. Obviously for the bloos there'd be no change!

[Jairzinho]

38 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

The S*n did help win it for Blair, and they - if not literally, but their readership and allies - could win it for Starmer. And that's a compromise too far in any right thinking person's book. 

 

It's not going to work. Murdoch supported Blair to move the party to the right and remove any opposition from the left. He doesn't need to now.

[Arniepie]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

 

The interesting thing to watch with Corbyn, and the only political figure who's comparable in recent years, is Donald Trump (not that I'm comparing the two), is how much it terrifies the establishment when you're not from 'the establishment'.

 

Trump had never been a Mayor, or a governor, or a senator. When you are, things are done and said to you while you're coming through the ranks. You learn to play the game, do as you're told, keep your head down and play within the boundaries. Things look a bit different, but everything essentially stays the same (look how quickly the yanks have gone  back to warmongering under Biden).  

 

Same with Corbyn, he was the ultimate outsider. He'd not been a frontbencher, couldn't be controlled, wouldn't compromise, for any misgivings I may have had about his qualities as a leader - that was brilliant, and unprecedented.

 

You can see with how Starmer is writing for the 'S*n' and trying to publicly manhandle 'the left', that he's basically now engaged in an 18 month job interview. He's being observed by the Barclays and the Murdochs to see whether or not he's got what it takes to continue their agenda, while still giving the plebs the illusion of change. So far, he's performing well on that score.

 

The S*n did help win it for Blair, and they - if not literally, but their readership and allies - could win it for Starmer. And that's a compromise too far in any right thinking person's book. 

 

I'd genuinely love to see what would happen if you set up something like a 'Liverpool party', where disgruntled Labour MPs were encouraged to jump ship, but instead of a new party with national politics, they just represented their own city. I think people here would vote for that, and no mistake. 

I get the outsider comparison.

Whatever you think of corbyn I've never in my life seen a politician be so totally vilified.

They were absolutely petrified someone with actual centre left left policies could get anywhere near power.

As for the rag at best it may be a short term win.

The likes of Murdoch are fundamentally opposed to any sort of policies which may actually promote a fair society.

Which speaks volumes for where starmer sees labour going.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Excellent thread on the whole S*n thing.

 

 

[Anubis]

 

 

[Bjornebye]

39 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Excellent thread on the whole S*n thing.

 

 

I worried when I saw the time stamp on that but he's hit the nail on the head brilliantly there. 

[Harry's Lad]

2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I worried when I saw the time stamp on that but he's hit the nail on the head brilliantly there. 

Yep. Bang on the money.

[Gnasher]

On 02/10/2021 at 23:35, Mudface said:

 

 

Thread's fucked now. RUN.

Cunts post.

[Gnasher]

7 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

I worried when I saw the time stamp on that but he's hit the nail on the head brilliantly there. 

Yeah, fair do's.

[TheDrowningMan]

8 hours ago, Anubis said:

 

 

They’re not even trying to go back to the 90s. Blair’s Labour was ambitious by comparison.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

There's just something dull and uninspiring about New New Labour. The language of a phrase like  "National Excellence Programme" just brings to mind incompetent and aloof managers, churning out rebranding exercises to hide the fact that they're not really doing much at all. Contrast that with the National Education Service from the last manifesto - a phrase designed to make you think of something that can radically improve education for generations to come, the way the NHS has improved health. In truth, the details might not have been any more substantial than whatever a National Excellence Programme is, but at least the language piques your curiosity.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, TheDrowningMan said:

They’re not even trying to go back to the 90s. Blair’s Labour was ambitious by comparison.

Back to the 90s would at least mean due emphasis on early years.

https://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/article/labour-conference-starmer-promises-to-launch-a-national-excellence-programme-for-education

 

[sir roger]

8 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

There's just something dull and uninspiring about New New Labour. The language of a phrase like  "National Excellence Programme" just brings to mind incompetent and aloof managers, churning out rebranding exercises to hide the fact that they're not really doing much at all. Contrast that with the National Education Service from the last manifesto - a phrase designed to make you think of something that can radically improve education for generations to come, the way the NHS has improved health. In truth, the details might not have been any more substantial than whatever a National Excellence Programme is, but at least the language piques your curiosity.

Got the whiff of something appropriate for the ' Corporate Bellendary ' thread.

[Gnasher]

Sigh; what is the point of having a Labour party?

 

 

 

[Creator Supreme]

50 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Sigh; what is the point of having a Labour party?

 

 

 

Fucks sake!

[Anubis]

From Politico. I've highlighted the depressing parts. Even in Esher, where Johnson isn't popular, Starmer is not liked.

 

https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/london-playbook/crime-day-whatsappening-boris-keir-focus-group-special/

 

FOCUS GROUP SPECIAL

In the red and blue corners: Much of Tory conference this week has been about the nebulous concepts of the red wall and leveling up, which are always viewed through a very skeptical eye in Westminster — so it’s probably worth seeing what actual voters think. Kekst CNC’s James Johnson, a former aide to Theresa May, conducted two recent focus groups: one in red wall Blyth Valley, where Ian Levy is the first Tory MP to represent the constituency since it was established in 1950, and one in blue wall Esher and Walton, where Dominic Raab faces the very real prospect of losing his seat to the Lib Dems. In Blyth, James spoke to working class voters who voted Tory for the first time in 2019, and in Esher he talked to more affluent voters who backed the Tories at the last election but are now undecided about how to vote next time round. Playbook brings you the very interesting findings …

 

Blyth backing Boris: Blyth Tory voters saw Boris Johnson as a strongman leader in 2019, James Johnson says, and while the focus group did start to raise concerns about his competence, overall they still gave him the benefit of the doubt despite his handling of the multiple crises in recent months. Here’s what they thought of the PM: “Bumbling … Scruffy looking … Comical … Likeable … He’s been dealt a bad hand … He was damned if he did and he was damned if he didn’t … Well, he said he’d get Brexit done and he did … I just, I like him.”

 

Esher not sure: More worryingly for the Tories — and Raab in particular — the focus group in the middle class Brexit-skeptic blue wall seat of Esher and Walton was much less positive on Johnson. “A bit of a bumbling buffoon, to be honest, I think there was a lot of bravado, a lot of showmanship and the substance isn’t there … A lot of waffle and really incapable of really leading. Where is the statesmanship these days? … He tries but he’s a but fluffy around the edges … Lack of statesmanship … What is the great saying? Is it lions led by a donkey or something? Soldiers led by a donkey, he’s out of his depth I think.”

 

Starmer struggling: Labour strategists will be concerned to read their leader Keir Starmer does not appear to be making inroads on the personality front. In red wall Blyth, the focus group was brutal: “I think untrustworthy, there’s something about him not right. He just seems sleazy … I’ve got to admit, I don’t know a lot about him to be honest. I know the name, I know the face a little bit but I can’t really comment too much as I don’t know owt about him … He seems a bit out of touch and just a bit smarmy … I don’t have a clue really who he is … He doesn’t kind of represent the normal working man … They’re not for the normal working class people anymore, they really aren’t … Labour can’t be trusted with the economy simple.”

 

It wasn’t much better in blue wall Esher: “I don’t think he’s a strong enough leader as he’s just not giving clear direction, giving clear plans as to what he would do if he was running the country … I think he’s a very good opposition, somebody who is critiquing the government but he’s not really bringing new ideas and policies forward … I think he lacks any real conviction and the inability to really gel the party together behind him, and there still seems to be a lot of fractions … I can’t stand him … I couldn’t name anything Labour is standing for or talking about.”

 

What about leveling up? The Blyth focus group goes some way to explaining why Downing Street are so bullish about their new strategy of forging a dividing line between themselves and Labour on higher wages versus higher immigration. Is immigration important? “Yeah, yeah, yes … It needs sorted out. Definitely.” Will it inform how people vote? “I think it will … Yeah I think it would … Yeah, yeah. I would certainly listen to everybody’s views on it.” Are the Tories or Labour better on immigration? “Conservative … Labour want open borders didn’t it … Yeah the same … I would say Conservative … Yeah, Conservative.”

Net zero a concern: Less good news for No. 10 on its net-zero climate change plan. Those in the Blyth group were strongly opposed: “It’s lunacy. We produce 1 percent of the global emissions and you’ve got countries like China just putting up coal power stations left, right and center … It seems unfair doesn’t like? … It’s unachievable … What changes would you need to make within your home to accommodate a new heating system? What funding is going to be available to do that, if you’ve just had a gas boiler put in in the last six months, if that’s going to be a five-year plan. You want a boiler for 10 years, don’t you? So I want someone to tell me I’m not paying anything to take my boiler out and put a new one in if that’s the case … We voted for a Conservative government and it seems like we are getting a Green party.”

Esher wasn’t that keen either: “It’s unaffordable now and it is going to go up because of all the changes … Pay much more tax on certain items … What they should do is they should incentive greener choices.”

So how would they vote? In Blyth, all six swing voters said they would stick with the Tories. In Esher, three said they would stick with the Tories, the other three said Liberal Democrat. But in a choice of prime minister, things were tighter. Again in Blyth, all chose Johnson. In Esher, four of the six chose Johnson while two chose Starmer.

If you want to hear more … Kekst CNC and Conservatives in Comms are hosting a fringe event at 1 p.m. in Charter 3 in the main conference center, where videos of the two focus groups will be shown in full. The event will be chaired by Sascha O’Sullivan with James Johnson, Lia Nici MP, former May director of communications Robbie Gibb and Tory red wall wonk David Skelton. It looks like the best and most unique event on public opinion at conference, with the audience able to watch the properly researched views of voters unfiltered. Well worth your time.

[Harry's Lad]

52 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Sigh; what is the point of having a Labour party?

 

 

 

I understand that times change and to claw back seats lost in the last General Election, the party probably has to evolve to become electable again.

 

Under this leadership, this is not the Labour party as far as I can see, this is Tory Lite.

 

Starmer can get to fuck.

[Arniepie]

9 minutes ago, Anubis said:

From Politico. I've highlighted the depressing parts. Even in Esher, where Johnson isn't popular, Starmer is not liked.

 

https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/london-playbook/crime-day-whatsappening-boris-keir-focus-group-special/

 

FOCUS GROUP SPECIAL

In the red and blue corners: Much of Tory conference this week has been about the nebulous concepts of the red wall and leveling up, which are always viewed through a very skeptical eye in Westminster — so it’s probably worth seeing what actual voters think. Kekst CNC’s James Johnson, a former aide to Theresa May, conducted two recent focus groups: one in red wall Blyth Valley, where Ian Levy is the first Tory MP to represent the constituency since it was established in 1950, and one in blue wall Esher and Walton, where Dominic Raab faces the very real prospect of losing his seat to the Lib Dems. In Blyth, James spoke to working class voters who voted Tory for the first time in 2019, and in Esher he talked to more affluent voters who backed the Tories at the last election but are now undecided about how to vote next time round. Playbook brings you the very interesting findings …

 

Blyth backing Boris: Blyth Tory voters saw Boris Johnson as a strongman leader in 2019, James Johnson says, and while the focus group did start to raise concerns about his competence, overall they still gave him the benefit of the doubt despite his handling of the multiple crises in recent months. Here’s what they thought of the PM: “Bumbling … Scruffy looking … Comical … Likeable … He’s been dealt a bad hand … He was damned if he did and he was damned if he didn’t … Well, he said he’d get Brexit done and he did … I just, I like him.”

 

Esher not sure: More worryingly for the Tories — and Raab in particular — the focus group in the middle class Brexit-skeptic blue wall seat of Esher and Walton was much less positive on Johnson. “A bit of a bumbling buffoon, to be honest, I think there was a lot of bravado, a lot of showmanship and the substance isn’t there … A lot of waffle and really incapable of really leading. Where is the statesmanship these days? … He tries but he’s a but fluffy around the edges … Lack of statesmanship … What is the great saying? Is it lions led by a donkey or something? Soldiers led by a donkey, he’s out of his depth I think.”

 

Starmer struggling: Labour strategists will be concerned to read their leader Keir Starmer does not appear to be making inroads on the personality front. In red wall Blyth, the focus group was brutal: “I think untrustworthy, there’s something about him not right. He just seems sleazy … I’ve got to admit, I don’t know a lot about him to be honest. I know the name, I know the face a little bit but I can’t really comment too much as I don’t know owt about him … He seems a bit out of touch and just a bit smarmy … I don’t have a clue really who he is … He doesn’t kind of represent the normal working man … They’re not for the normal working class people anymore, they really aren’t … Labour can’t be trusted with the economy simple.”

 

It wasn’t much better in blue wall Esher: “I don’t think he’s a strong enough leader as he’s just not giving clear direction, giving clear plans as to what he would do if he was running the country … I think he’s a very good opposition, somebody who is critiquing the government but he’s not really bringing new ideas and policies forward … I think he lacks any real conviction and the inability to really gel the party together behind him, and there still seems to be a lot of fractions … I can’t stand him … I couldn’t name anything Labour is standing for or talking about.”

 

What about leveling up? The Blyth focus group goes some way to explaining why Downing Street are so bullish about their new strategy of forging a dividing line between themselves and Labour on higher wages versus higher immigration. Is immigration important? “Yeah, yeah, yes … It needs sorted out. Definitely.” Will it inform how people vote? “I think it will … Yeah I think it would … Yeah, yeah. I would certainly listen to everybody’s views on it.” Are the Tories or Labour better on immigration? “Conservative … Labour want open borders didn’t it … Yeah the same … I would say Conservative … Yeah, Conservative.”

Net zero a concern: Less good news for No. 10 on its net-zero climate change plan. Those in the Blyth group were strongly opposed: “It’s lunacy. We produce 1 percent of the global emissions and you’ve got countries like China just putting up coal power stations left, right and center … It seems unfair doesn’t like? … It’s unachievable … What changes would you need to make within your home to accommodate a new heating system? What funding is going to be available to do that, if you’ve just had a gas boiler put in in the last six months, if that’s going to be a five-year plan. You want a boiler for 10 years, don’t you? So I want someone to tell me I’m not paying anything to take my boiler out and put a new one in if that’s the case … We voted for a Conservative government and it seems like we are getting a Green party.”

Esher wasn’t that keen either: “It’s unaffordable now and it is going to go up because of all the changes … Pay much more tax on certain items … What they should do is they should incentive greener choices.”

So how would they vote? In Blyth, all six swing voters said they would stick with the Tories. In Esher, three said they would stick with the Tories, the other three said Liberal Democrat. But in a choice of prime minister, things were tighter. Again in Blyth, all chose Johnson. In Esher, four of the six chose Johnson while two chose Starmer.

If you want to hear more … Kekst CNC and Conservatives in Comms are hosting a fringe event at 1 p.m. in Charter 3 in the main conference center, where videos of the two focus groups will be shown in full. The event will be chaired by Sascha O’Sullivan with James Johnson, Lia Nici MP, former May director of communications Robbie Gibb and Tory red wall wonk David Skelton. It looks like the best and most unique event on public opinion at conference, with the audience able to watch the properly researched views of voters unfiltered. Well worth your time.

Boris johnson..likeable..jesus wept.

[Arniepie]

If there were an election tomorrow I think starmer would get utterly anhiliated.

[Vincent Vega]

I’m not sure Labour are even trying at the moment. It feels to me that they’ve already given up on the next election and have their eye on the one after. That’s why they were more arsed about trying to change the Labour leadership rules for the next leader at the party conference, rather than do what we all want and oppose the Tories.
 

That conference finished it for me and I cancelled my membership.

[Mudface]

1 hour ago, Vincent Vega said:

I’m not sure Labour are even trying at the moment. It feels to me that they’ve already given up on the next election and have their eye on the one after. That’s why they were more arsed about trying to change the Labour leadership rules for the next leader at the party conference, rather than do what we all want and oppose the Tories.
 

That conference finished it for me and I cancelled my membership.

Same, not interested in this bunch, Starmer's incredibly disappointing.

[House of Dirk]

2 hours ago, Arniepie said:

If there were an election tomorrow I think starmer would get utterly anhiliated.

I agree. I think the Tory majority would be more than 100 seats.

 

And still somebody will make Jeremy Corbyn responsible.