Virgil Van Dijk

[Lee909]

Pretty sure it is

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

I think you'll find this 'forcing' players to honour their contract is just not plausible. Do clubs force managers to honour their contract or do they bin them off after a run of poor results? Do clubs sell players for their own ends ie to finance a new player purchase?

 

No doubt some will say that's different but, it is not. If people want consistency, then it must be consistent across the game. They cant pick and chose which consistent bits they want to dismiss and which ones where it should be enforced.

 

Half of this 'forcing' players to their contracts is tied up with this shit about club A not selling to club B. It seems to be a particularly English thing. On the continent major clubs will do business with each other but now, we have stuff like arsenal not wanting to sell to us because of bad vibes or thinking we're a direct rival for 4th spot or some shit.

 

Talk of 'forcing' anyone let alone players of doing things they dont want to do smacks of slavery in my opinion. It's another piece of shit that's been blown up by a shitty transfer window system.

 

The contract has to be hounored (i.e. paid off)

[Gym Beglin]

Going all theoretical, I think this transfer window shows some things about contracts and money that need ironing out.

 

Money has been pumped into the game, and the idea is that that money will stimulate more excitement within the PL as clubs buy better players.

 

But clubs are hanging onto players, on big contracts of 4-5 years.

 

I think that there is an argument for the FA/PL to reduce the length of contracts to 3 years, to make the market more fluid, or, reduce contract length to 2 years and MAKE players serve the full 2 years.

 

The result would be an increase in player wages, but a reduction in transfer fees, and the freer movement of players between clubs. 

 

We all want to see the best player move to the clubs with the best chances of success.  The problem for the likes of Southampton is that they aren't willing to strive to be a bigger club.  They have lots of money, like all PL clubs, but they choose to sit on it and then restrict the movement of their best players to go and better themselves. 

 

In the case of Coutinho, not applicable, he wants to move outside of the PL.

[Talismanic]

Pretty sure it is

It definitely is

[Dave D]

If they force him to stay and the results are bad, whether he plays or not, the fans will turn on them pretty quick.

 

Very rich business types don't tend to risk missing out on massive sums of money for the moral high ground.  

[The Guest]

I think the system is fine the way it is. If the smaller clubs become rich enough to hang on to their players it's going to make the game a lot more competitive. As I've said previously if we offered 200m for Van Dijk or Barca offered 500m for Coutinho of course the clubs would sell. For the money being offered for both players though the clubs don't thinks it's worth them selling.

 

There is also the selling to direct rivals. Clubs don't have to sell to anyone they don't want to and that should be okay as well. If you don't want this to be the case get a clause in your contract. You can't just have a system where players can kick off and refuse to play to get their move and then it just happens with the club having no say. The game will end up ruins. If we meet southamptons valuation they will sell. You can't just invent what you think is a good price and then say they must sell at that.

 

I just completely disagree Jimmy. Everyone knows what they are getting into when they sign these long term deals. If you want to hold a player to it you should be able to. If a club doesn't think a player or manager is good enough any more they can go out and buy another one. They couldn't just cut up their side of the contract though they would have to pay it all if the player wanted it that way.

[INTORRESTING]

Southampton aren't on any sort of trajectory for a european spot. They always sell their best players, always.

They've just changed ownership. Again.

 

They've started this season with two 0-0 draws, and only jammed a win against the pathetic West Ham with a 91st minute penalty. Nothing's changing.

 

They went out of the EFL Cup 7 days ago. Christ, the season's barely started and they're already out of 1 competition.

 

You can't compare Southampton to us. Good players have every right to want out of Southampton, though obviously Southampton have every right to hold onto players where possible.

One rule for one and one for another is a bit ridiculous isn't it? We have won fuck all for ten years, we are hardly flying. Why haven't good players got every right to leave us?

[The Guest]

Southampton aren't on any sort of trajectory for a european spot. They always sell their best players, always.

They've just changed ownership. Again.

 

They've started this season with two 0-0 draws, and only jammed a win against the pathetic West Ham with a 91st minute penalty. Nothing's changing.

 

They went out of the EFL Cup 7 days ago. Christ, the season's barely started and they're already out of 1 competition.

 

You can't compare Southampton to us. Good players have every right to want out of Southampton, though obviously Southampton have every right to hold onto players where possible.

Southampton have been finishing in and around us for seasons. They finished above us 2 seasons ago. I don't think they will be anywhere near us this season but what I'm saying is you can't blame their club and fans for thinking that if they want to break into the top 6 and they should stop selling their best players to the club that based on history is most likely to fall out of it.

[INTORRESTING]

That post is just good fuel for other fans who think we are deluded, living in the past and arrogant.

[TheHowieLama]

The game will end up ruins. 

 

The whole mindset on this is that the player will stop giving his best. 

[mgw100]

U

[Gym Beglin]

I think the system is fine the way it is. If the smaller clubs become rich enough to hang on to their players it's going to make the game a lot more competitive.

 

I disagree. 

 

You might keep hold of 1 or 2 good players, with comparable contract lengths, but by the time you get another top player and threaten to challenge you'll lose one or both of your other players as their contracts enter years 2 and 3.

 

Players move for trophies, and they also move to get paid more money.  If we shorten contracts then the spread of high wages throughout the PL will only make it more competitive. 

[TheHowieLama]

If they force him to stay and the results are bad, whether he plays or not, the fans will turn on them pretty quick.

 

Very rich business types don't tend to risk missing out on massive sums of money for the moral high ground.  

 

What do you think Coutinhos welcome back will be like?

[The Guest]

The whole mindset on this is that the player will stop giving his best.

That should be the clubs risk to take and not forced on them. Just my opinion Howie!

[TheHowieLama]

That should be the clubs risk to take and not forced on them. Just my opinion Howie!

 

I agree - its certainly not been proven to be the case in other sports yet it is accepted as fact that some spoilt kid will certainly do so in football.

[The Guest]

I disagree.

 

You might keep hold of 1 or 2 good players, with comparable contract lengths, but by the time you get another top player and threaten to challenge you'll lose one or both of your other players as their contracts enter years 2 and 3.

 

Players move for trophies, and they also move to get paid more money. If we shorten contracts then the spread of high wages throughout the PL will only make it more competitive.

You would get the top clubs just taking every in form player from the lower clubs. At the moment they can't do that. The smaller clubs wouldn't necessarily start paying more money in wages either. Why bother you aren't keeping him anyway. They offered Van Dijk more money for a longer deal to keep him there and that's why he agreed it.

[Pureblood]

Could we have a separate "Football Transfer Theory" thread for this highly interesting analysis?   This is for news about VvD.

[TheHowieLama]

You get both - Usher delivering the goods again.

 

The update on VVD is posted below.

[Gym Beglin]

Southampton have been finishing in and around us for seasons. They finished above us 2 seasons ago. I don't think they will be anywhere near us this season but what I'm saying is you can't blame their club and fans for thinking that if they want to break into the top 6 and they should stop selling their best players to the club that based on history is most likely to fall out of it.

 

I think if you want success you need to stop hiring shit managers with no idea how to set a team up and win games.  Doesn't matter how many good players they have on their books if the manager is shit.

 

They don't have the appetite for success, they got to 6th because clubs like us failed miserably to address our own shortcomings and because they had less games to play.  

 

We came 4th last year, we were leading the pack for ages.  And yet we out and buy Salah etc to add to our gameplan of pressing and breaking.  

 

After Saints came 6th they sold Mane, Wanyama and Fonte, and brought in Redmond, Boufal and Gabbiadini, and replaced their manager.

 

That's not clever.  That's just a bunch of bad choices, that's the hallmark of a club not ready to chase success.

[Hades]

 

 

Southampton have been finishing in and around us for seasons.

Excellent

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

That post is just good fuel for other fans who think we are deluded, living in the past and arrogant.

Who's arsed though? Fuck "other fans"

 

They'll have their narrative no matter what.

 

If he doesn't sign - "deluded scousers, did they honestly think they'd sign van Dijk?"

 

If he does sign - "how much? For a defender? He's overrated anyway. It'll take more than him to fix that defence!"

 

Couldn't give a shiny shite what other fans think. It's almost deadline day. I can assure you that it won't exclusively be Liverpool fans getting a bit excited about players they may or may not end up bringing in.

[Lee909]

Southampton have been finishing in and around us for seasons. They finished above us 2 seasons ago. I don't think they will be anywhere near us this season but what I'm saying is you can't blame their club and fans for thinking that if they want to break into the top 6 and they should stop selling their best players to the club that based on history is most likely to fall out of it.

Around us for seasons.

You mean two while we were a shit shot

 

2014 28pts behind

2015 2 pts behind

2016 3pts ahead

2017 30pts behind (12 above relegation)

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

Around us for seasons.

You mean two while we were a shit shot

 

2014 28pts behind

2015 2 pts behind

2016 3pts ahead

2017 30pts behind (12 above relegation)

 

In fairness they've won the same amount of trophies as us for seasons. Fuck all.

[G Richards]

Maybe they will sell to us. Maybe they won't. It will all be clear in the next day or two!

 

Southampton are well within their rights to try to hold onto a very good player they have on a long contract. We are well within our rights to try to acquire him to improve our team. One or the other will prevail, and there's no real point fussing either way.

 

At some point if the player is adamant he wants to go, and only to us, that might sway the deal. But if Southampton want to make a point and keep him, they can do that.

 

The consequences of all the added money in the game haven't fully been realized yet, but one of the obvious ones seems to be that smaller clubs have more power in holding onto players. We may see some evolution in the next year, with release clauses becoming more commonplace, for example.

[Mil-ing Around]

Could we have a separate "Football Transfer Theory" thread for this highly interesting analysis?   This is for news about VvD.

 

Never go full Rawk