Suarez suspension begin tonight

[xerxes]

Why should anyone apologise for unintended offence caused by a non-offensive term when Evra hasn't apologised for his wholly offensive remark about Luis's sister's cunt?

 

Because it is true, I don't believe that Luis did mean any racist offence,and it might have avoided a charge, massive adverse publicity and a big ban, or at the very least mitigated the effects thereof (with no downside) - just a thought..................

[Jack the Sipper]

The notion that Terry gets a free ride from the media is a fallacy. There are plenty of articles outlining and highlighting his numerous indiscretions. That said, he probably gets an easier ride because he's English due to the jingostic nature of the media. But it's the same in every country (in my experience) and for those of you who think it's worse here than anywhere else, I suggest you live somewhere first. Try France for example.

 

All that said, what difference does it make what happens to Terry? If he gets banned for 15 games, will you feel better about Luis' ban? I won't. What happens to Terry means fuck all other than give some people an(other) excuse to don their tinfoil hat.

 

Who said Terry gets a free ride in the media? The fact is, as you accept, he gets an easier ride than Suarez has, and there's already been articles published over the last few days and weeks to support that position. To argue that it's natural because he's an English player in England dosen't excuse that inconsistency. In any case, I was having a bit of fun with the comments. I don't really believe they'll go after the judge, you know.

 

And what a stupid fucking thing to say. Of course it matters to me what happens to Terry. If he's been racially abusive I wanted him convicted of it. Likewise, if he hasn't, I want him to be found not guilty. And, if he's found guilty, I want him to recieve the same treatment as Suarez has at the hands of the press. It's called wanting to see justice done and a desire for consistency and fairness. Not difficult concepts to grasp.

[me1]

If the FA don't act with reference to what Terry said - then god help them in 2014 should they qualify. The whole of South America will be perfectly within their rights to ridicule and insult their cowardice as loud as is humanly possible.

Just imagine - please, please Ingerlund being drawn against Uruguay!!!

It's way from over.

[gumps]

Terry is only getting a perceived easy ride by the press because his case is ongoing and subject to sub-judice rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope!

[Whelan]

The "ten times" accusation was never part of the charge.

 

As soon as it became clear where this was heading, post complaint, pre-charge, we lost the opportunity, and control.

 

The charge came almost 6 weeks after the initial accusation!

 

The accusation was that he was called Nigger, 10 times by the time the charge came it was abusive language refering to colour.

[MVP]

Perhaps we should just pull out of football altogether.

 

Now, that'd show 'em.

 

I think that would be taking it a tad too far.

[s(k)aturation]

I think that would be taking it a tad too far.

 

No! Really?

 

Well, if nothing else, we should boycott sarcasm.

[moof]

If Terry is convicted by a criminal court an FA Tribunal will inevitably follow with an extended ban. Terry’s England career will be over. It will cost him millions.

 

If he is cleared, expect no FA charge.

 

One option open to the Club in the Suarez case was to offer no evidence, on the basis that it might prejudice a subsequent criminal trial. That would have called Evra’s bluff, press criminal charges or withdraw, but the Club backed off from that stand-off with the FA.

 

As it stands, Suarez is still vulnerable to criminal charges. I believe that a factor in us choosing not to Appeal was an awareness that the higher profile this became, the greater the risk that a criminal charge might follow.

 

I'd fucking love us to go to the police ourselves, let them investigate this. Blow the F.A's independent commission out of the water. If he's being accused of racially abusing Evra, that's a crime and someone needs to report it.

[Major Tom]

And what a stupid fucking thing to say. Of course it matters to me what happens to Terry. If he's been racially abusive I wanted him convicted of it. Likewise, if he hasn't, I want him to be found not guilty. .

 

Well, yeah, but if that was the point you thought I was making, you missed my point by a considerable distance!

 

The other stuff, I don't agree on. But hey-ho it doesn;t really matter and I don't really want to get into an argument about John Terry. He's a fucking imbecile and potentially a racist one. I'll leave it there.

[TheHowieLama]

I like how it becomes jingoistic instead of racist whenever there is a discussion about the English thingie.

[Major Tom]

I'd fucking love us to go to the police ourselves, let them investigate this. Blow the F.A's independent commission out of the water.

 

At whatever cost to the club and player? What price this investigation?

 

We have to draw a line somewhere and cut our losses. Now is a good time and place. The club have done the right thing in my view.

[moof]

Because it is true, I don't believe that Luis did mean any racist offence,and it might have avoided a charge, massive adverse publicity and a big ban, or at the very least mitigated the effects thereof (with no downside) - just a thought..................

 

Yeah, a dull thought. If he apologises then i'll be fucking livid. "I'm sorry that you've made up lies about me, got me banned for a fifth of the season and wholly ruined my reputation in this country." fuck off.

[xerxes]

If, following any aquittal of Terry in the courts, the FA leave it alone they are clearly putting the interest of the England team (as they see it) ahead of pursuing a possible instance of racial abuse. As others have stated, the burden of proof is higher in a criminal court, so Terry being acquitted there dosen't mean he would be acquitted before an FA appointed panel. Suarez would never have been found guilty before a criminal court on the evidence presented.

 

 

 

It depends what the outcome of the trial is. If it is proved that Terry was querying what he thought he heard ( ho,ho) rather than using it antagonistically, no-one, QPR, Ferdinand or the FA will re-run that.

 

The “burden of proof” argument is becoming a little distorted. The FA Charge and a criminal charge would be different anyway, the defence and prosecution are different.

 

There is no guarantee that Suarez would have been acquitted in a criminal court. His, and Comolli’s, admissions might have been enough. We COULD have called the FA’s bluff and submitted no evidence, demanding that because the charge could prejudice a criminal verdict that we wanted a criminal complaint to be made, so we could defend it accordingly – but chose not to.

[s(k)aturation]

I don't care what happens to John Terry.

 

Does that make me racially unvigilant or non-jingoistic?

[Strontium]

I'll bet I'm right though.

 

 

They do say there's a first time for everything.

[xerxes]

Yeah, a dull thought. If he apologises then i'll be fucking livid. "I'm sorry that you've made up lies about me, got me banned for a fifth of the season and wholly ruined my reputation in this country." fuck off.

 

I drew a distinction between then, and now.

 

Our chosen course of action is what ended us up in this mess.

[moof]

At whatever cost to the club and player? What price this investigation?

 

We have to draw a line somewhere and cut our losses. Now is a good time and place. The club have done the right thing in my view.

 

Yes! Of course at whatever cost! I expected us to fight this all the way to clear Luis' name.

 

What price a man's personal and professional turmoil?

 

If i'd been wrongly accused of something then i'd go to the end of the earth to clear my name.

[xerxes]

I'd fucking love us to go to the police ourselves, let them investigate this. Blow the F.A's independent commission out of the water. If he's being accused of racially abusing Evra, that's a crime and someone needs to report it.

 

That's a fair question.

 

Why didn't we force the issue? It might also have made our legal team put their working shoes on, too.

[Jack the Sipper]

Well, yeah, but if that was the point you thought I was making, you missed my point by a considerable distance!

 

The other stuff, I don't agree on. But hey-ho it doesn;t really matter and I don't really want to get into an argument about John Terry. He's a fucking imbecile and potentially a racist one. I'll leave it there.

 

No - you missed the point I was making. You responded to my post, after all. You was totally wrong to assume I would feel better for Suarez if Terry got a bigger ban, and that this was why I cared about what happened to Terry. I had already made clear that I wanted to see consistency applied in the post you replied to. So there.

[Strontium]

We COULD have called the FA’s bluff and submitted no evidence, demanding that because the charge could prejudice a criminal verdict that we wanted a criminal complaint to be made, so we could defend it accordingly – but chose not to.

 

 

I think we should actively invite legal action. Challenge any of these corrupt bastards in the FA and their quislings in the media to make a criminal complaint about Suarez. Let's see if gobshites like Maddock and Holt have the bollocks for that. Let's see if their crank theories hold any water in a real court, a fair and neutral court with an impartial judge rather than a kangaroo court presided over by the best mate of the plaintiff's boss.

[ngogswilly]

I'd say theres a fairly good chance Terry will get off with it, despite admitting saying "Black Cunt" mind you. Mainly because in my lifetime I've seen people get away with some serious shit in all walks of life and its what I've come to expect.

 

I think he'll walk away, the FA will hide behind the "Its been dealth with" argument and on we all go. Whilst anyone who dares to suggest theres anything untoward about it will be labelled a crackpot, tinfoil hat warer etc... etc... and thus the circle of life continues.

[Major Tom]

Yes! Of course at whatever cost! I expected us to fight this all the way to clear Luis' name.

 

What price a man's personal and professional turmoil?

 

 

That's kind of my point. You think a protracted investigation and court will not simply add to his personal and professional turmoil?

 

The booing will eventually go away. He was found not to be a racist despite what the media or oppo fans might say and only found guilty of whatever charge on the balance of probability. It's an ugly episode but it's time to move on for the good of the club and player. In my view obviously.

[s(k)aturation]

Yes! Of course at whatever cost! I expected us to fight this all the way to clear Luis' name.

 

What price a man's personal and professional turmoil?

 

If i'd been wrongly accused of something then i'd go to the end of the earth to clear my name.

 

"Excellent falsehood" as Shakespeare once brilliantly put it.

Unfortunately, some people will believe what they want to believe, regardless of who goes to the ends of the earth to redress whatever.

 

Hence the continued thriving existence of things like the Daily Mirrror.

[Jack the Sipper]

Yes! Of course at whatever cost! I expected us to fight this all the way to clear Luis' name.

 

What price a man's personal and professional turmoil?

 

If i'd been wrongly accused of something then i'd go to the end of the earth to clear my name.

 

Perhaps Major Tom's changed his mind upon his reading (or otherwise) of the report, but he did hold the view that Evra had no reason to lie about his claims. The idea that Suarez was actually guilty of repeated racial abuse might have coloured (am I allowed to say that?) his subsequent views on the matter.

[Major Tom]

No - you missed the point I was making. You responded to my post, after all. You was totally wrong to assume I would feel better for Suarez if Terry got a bigger ban, and that this was why I cared about what happened to Terry. I had already made clear that I wanted to see consistency applied in the post you replied to. So there.

 

Right, so we've both missed each other's points. I do think you missed my point by more than I missed yours though. SO I probably win. I reckon by about 2-1. Unlucky.