To all those posters who think Carra is past it and shouldn't be playing anymore....

[The Dude Abides]

Hmm, we looked pretty well organised against the Mancs like.

 

As they say, sometimes the best thing you can do as a player is not play. You get really good that way.

 

You'll always here Carra on the pitch shouting "out" to players when we move the ball out of defence.

 

It's that kind of leadership and organisation that we are really missing alright.

[ritchie]

At least King Kenny understand how vital he is to our club going by what he had to say the other day.

 

Martin Kelly would also benefit and learn more from playing in a back four that included Carra than one without him.

 

Anyone know when he is meant to be back?

 

Like when he screams at him while the ball's still in play? Carragher's a good organiser but he's not good for the confidence of other players when he's just shouting abuse every 5 minutes.

 

Our defence needs a major overhaul and that includes Carragher. If he's happy to be a squad player then fine, but he should no longer be starting every week - unless it's by default because everyone else is crap, or too inexperienced, which seems to be the case at the moment. Kelly and Wilson are for the future and Kelly's capable now; we need to get a pacy, commanding centre back and a good left back, urgently.

 

It's like the January window United went out and got Evra and Vidic. They sorted their back four out and were the catalyst for them winning the league the next three seasons. We need to sign one or two quality defenders, as a matter of urgency. Arbeloa and Hyypia have not been replaced, Carragher is no longer the player he was three or four years ago and Aurelio is still made of glass. That's pretty much the back four from 08/09. The last capable defender we signed was Arbeloa four years ago!

Edited January 13, 2011 by ritchie

[Best Believe It]

Jamie Carragher is our best centre back, as well as being a good few years past his best and, in an ideal world, we'd have replaced him as first choice last summer. That certainly needs to happen this coming summer, if not in this transfer window, if possible.

 

He's been a fantastic servant of the club and put in some outstanding performances for us. On his day I think there were few better centre backs in Europe.

 

However, this doesn't mean he's excused from criticism and that we shouldn't discuss his limitations on the pitch or his influence off it. And it's a bit rich for someone to be saying the comments Carragher has received is sickening when this same someone started a thread entitled 'Benitez is a cunt'.

[ritchie]

Jamie Carragher is our best centre back, as well as being a good few years past his best and, in an ideal world, we'd have replaced him as first choice last summer. That certainly needs to happen this coming summer, if not in this transfer window, if possible.

 

He's been a fantastic servant of the club and put in some outstanding performances for us. On his day I think there were few better centre backs in Europe.

 

However, this doesn't mean he's excused from criticism and that we shouldn't discuss his limitations on the pitch or his influence off it. And it's a bit rich for someone to be saying the comments Carragher has received is sickening when this same someone started a thread entitled 'Benitez is a cunt'.

 

Carragher has been an excellent servant, but he wouldn't get into half the teams in the Premiership these days. If we had two solid centre backs, then it wouldn't even be an issue.

 

It's funny that after a 2-1 defeat at Blackpool there's a thread stating the reason being the absence of Carragher. Well I remember a 2-1 defeat at Anfield to Blackpool with Carragher being given the right runaround for 90 minutes.

 

At the moment we lack quality at the back. Carragher or no Carragher, it doesn't make much difference. Although we did defend well on Sunday.

[Best Believe It]

At the moment we lack quality at the back. Carragher or no Carragher, it doesn't make much difference. Although we did defend well on Sunday.

 

Really, Kelly's the only one who is coming out of games with anything approaching credit at the moment, and he's only played the last couple. There are decent arguments to replace all four of our centre backs, as well as our left backs and one of our right backs. Sorry state of affairs really.

 

I asked this in another thread but does anyone know how Ayala is coming along? Saw him in those training pics on the offal wearing a training bra.

[PaulMcC]

Really, Kelly's the only one who is coming out of games with anything approaching credit at the moment, and he's only played the last couple. There are decent arguments to replace all four of our centre backs, as well as our left backs and one of our right backs. Sorry state of affairs really.

 

I asked this in another thread but does anyone know how Ayala is coming along? Saw him in those training pics on the offal wearing a training bra.

 

Hull fans seemed to really like him. Some were saying him and Turner are the best centre backs they've ever seen play for Hull.

 

Good in the air at least.

[Guest PurpleNose]

Kelly, Wilson and Ayala are all really good prospects.

 

I hope we don't spunk £10m/£12m on someone like Shawcross, who I don't think is much of an improvement on Skrtel or the Greek, if it hindered their progress.

 

Because the three youngsters will just fuck off eventually, like San Jose did.

[Best Believe It]

Kelly, Wilson and Ayala are all really good prospects.

 

I hope we don't spunk £10m/£12m on someone like Shawcross, who I don't think is much of an improvement on Skrtel or the Greek, if it hindered their progress.

 

Because the three youngsters will just fuck off eventually, like San Jose did.

 

Maybe Skrtel's current form and the lack of height in the defence might open the door for Ayala. I know it's a dodgy time to be blooding youngsters but our defence is really shoddy at the moment and could do with shoring up.

[JohnnyH]

I like th elook for Kelly and his attitude. He reminds me so much of Carra. In fact I really love the idea that we seem to have got ourselves a spare Carra in Kelly. Now we know that should we ever lose Carra down the back of the sofa we have one spare.

[dave]

I like th elook for Kelly and his attitude. He reminds me so much of Carra. In fact I really love the idea that we seem to have got ourselves a spare Carra in Kelly. Now we know that should we ever lose Carra down the back of the sofa we have one spare.

 

Kelly will be far better than Carra, IMO.

[Guest PurpleNose]

Maybe Skrtel's current form and the lack of height in the defence might open the door for Ayala. I know it's a dodgy time to be blooding youngsters but our defence is really shoddy at the moment and could do with shoring up.

 

Not convinced there is ever an ideal time, obviously if we were 5th there would be less risk, but there would still be risk. There is always risk.

 

Arsenal and United take these risks, all the time.

 

Part of the reason they're never 13th. The conveyer belt of mediocre middle aged squad players doesn't seem to exist at either club.

 

Its actually similar to the notion that, because we're 13th, we need to get some battlers in. Some iron willed alehouse nutcases to oil up and fist our way to hard earned points.

 

We need a philosophy of football based on players being capable on the ball. A youthful fresh squad of players hungry for success and confident they'll achieve it.

[MLB]

Kelly, Carra, Agger and Aurelio would be a good back four if we could get them playing together regularly. Carra is still our best centre half by some way. He is our best organiser and leader at the back, and we will look a lot more solid when he returns. It can't come soon enough.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

The sickening treatment I speak of is exactly what you mention there, Johnny. Except I believe it to be far more than just "one or two people".

 

 

I wouldn't call it sickening, that's very much an Antynwa sort of comment. Drama queen type.

 

Sickening is getting your nuts nailed to a board by an evil dictator because you don't agree with his policies.

 

Or getting your head chopped off because your a white farmer in Zimbabwe.

 

It's a bit shambolic yes, sickening no.

[KopOut]

I'm all for a 'team effort' when if comes to defending, but lets face it, the defence are the so called 'specialists' and the buck stops with them.

 

With or without Jamie Carragher, Glen Johnson would still be a crap defender, Skittle would still be having his worst season in a red shirt, Agger would still be only this season playing regularly, complete with his lack of confidence and Konchevsky is, well...Konchevsky.

Carragher was at his best with his comrade in arms - Sami H...but Hypia is distant memory...an occasional cold wind from Valhalla blowing across Anfield.

 

Granted, if Carragher was back we wouldn't be any worse, and his seniority gives him at the very least, that air of 'boss man' but when you look at the likes of Arbeloa and Finnan , from our recent past, its obvious that Johnson just doesn't cut the mustard.

[KopOut]

Kelly, Carra, Agger and Aurelio would be a good back four if we could get them playing together regularly. Carra is still our best centre half by some way. He is our best organiser and leader at the back, and we will look a lot more solid when he returns. It can't come soon enough.

 

DITTO

[Red_Jim83]

I posted on another thread a couple of weeks ago about our problems at the back, can't find it now of course but this is the general gist of it...

 

I think we need to sell both Agger and Skrtel, for different reasons. I remember saying to myself about two years ago that Agger and Skrtel were two for the future, that in two years time they could be a great pairing. Unfortunately the two years have passed and they are far from a great pairing. Neither have progressed as players. Both still make the same mistakes and Agger spends too much time injured.

 

I think we should sell both of them. We need to sign a quick CB who can dominate in the air and then work on bringing Wilson and Ayala through. Carra and Soto should be used with the two youngsters in a rotation. If Wilson or Ayala beging to improve and become more comfortable with playing at this level, then Carra and particularly Soto will be used less and less.

 

In relation to the overall debate about Carra. I think he was a great centre half and a fantastic servant to the club, in his day he'd rank up there with anybody. Unfortunately he is not the player he was. He is still a good centre half, there's no doubting that, and I think he organises things well at the back at times. It's clear for all to see that he loves the club and he always leaves everything out on the field.

 

However, even the most blinkered observers would have to admit his lack of pace at the back is really begining to show and his distribution of the ball is absolutely woeful, he spends most of his time hoofing the ball aimlessly down the field. If we want to move forward and challenge for league titles and in cup competitions, then we have to replace Carra. I think he'd still be well worth his place in the squad as both a leader and as a solid option at the back for certain games, but I don't think we can have a situation where he's playing week in, week out...not anymore anyway.

[paddyberger15]

There is absolutely no fucking need for the shit directed at Carra. Coming to the end of his career? Yes. Had some run ins with Benitez? Yes, but so fucking what, that happens at every club when there are different ideas about the best way forward.

Under ideal circumstances Carra would have been an option rather than a necessity from the start of the 09-10 season, but these aren't ideal circumstances. Rafa was handed a massive 2m 'war chest' to improve the centre half position and he got Soto, who is only an option.

Carra is still our most infuential defender, as he has been for a long time, that his legs are going is because he has played too many games out of necessity.

Let's cut the shit out as far as Carra goes, he could have been right about Benitez and his team selections, who the fuck cares? It's gone now and we need him back as the defence is a shambles without him.

Anyone who remembers Carra for anything other than examples like extra time in Istanbul needs their fucking head knocking.

He is a Liverpool great so stop being fucking Jessies and cut the shit out.

Until we replace him properly and he can hang his boots up safe in the knowledge that he is being replaced by better, then we still need him, and we need him asap based on the last few weeks.

I've never heard such bollocks as people slagging Carra. Just fucking remember the last 6 years you cunts.

[Phoenix]

More to do with the plight of the team and lack of confidence.

[Guest San Don]

Kelly, Wilson and Ayala are all really good prospects.

 

I hope we don't spunk £10m/£12m on someone like Shawcross, who I don't think is much of an improvement on Skrtel or the Greek, if it hindered their progress.

 

Because the three youngsters will just fuck off eventually, like San Jose did.

 

Kelly, yes, deffo.

 

Wilson, not sure. He didnt look too good againt northampton but then again who did?

 

Ayala looked as nervous as a kitten when he played in the first team. Would like to see how he shapes up now after playing in the Championship.

 

Whilst I tend to agree with you, I think we need a couple of defenders who can defend(!) and have a bit of experience.

[Dicko]

I wouldn't call it sickening, that's very much an Antynwa sort of comment. Drama queen type.

 

Sickening is getting your nuts nailed to a board by an evil dictator because you don't agree with his policies.

 

Or getting your head chopped off because your a white farmer in Zimbabwe.

 

It's a bit shambolic yes, sickening no.

 

In fairness if I had my way white farmers in this country would have their heads chopped off too.

Because they're all fucking Tories.

[Block109'er]

All I do know is that Skrtel has looked like an absolute shithouse since Carra's been out.

 

I think a lot of us (me) may have started to take for granted exactly what Carra does for us.

[Walton Park]

Not suprised about some of the shit he get as we have some top bellends supporting us at the moment.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

Kelly, Carra, Agger and Aurelio would be a good back four if we could get them playing together regularly. Carra is still our best centre half by some way. He is our best organiser and leader at the back, and we will look a lot more solid when he returns. It can't come soon enough.

 

Probably our best shot at the moment, agree on that. Definately need both Agger and Aurelio in there if we want to try and play some football. Maybe Carragher and Kyrgiakos against some teams. Carragher and Skrtel together are a disaster. Too much hoofing and both too weak in the air.

 

To be a top team in the premiership I think hardly any of our defenders are good enough. Maybe Agger if he could stay fit, which is unlikely.

[viking]

Have to agree that Kelly, Carra, Agger and Fabio are by far the best combination. We need Carra back big time people have moaned about him in the past....but the keystone cops type of defending that has gone on recently wouldn't happen if Carra was there to pull them together...since he's been missing it is very obvious he does a lot of that. I've seen Ayala playing for Hull a few times this season and he looks good...would he have the cutting edge for Premiership? Maybe in a consistent back four. Of the reserves Flanaghan stands out..tough, nippy very old style attacking defender deffo one for the future....

[Gym Beglin]

Right, Carragher was utter class yesterday.

IF he keeps that up then he's a shoe-in every week. In fact, with us playing 3 centre backs, he's a shoe-in anyway.

 

But it doesn't change the fact he's 33 and has little pace. He will always be exposed in a 4-4-2, though his last ditch challenges offer a get-out-of-jail-free card for the most part.

 

By all means, revel in displays like yesterday, but let's not lose sight of the fact that he's winding down, we still need to keep an eye on the future.

For me, if we're playing 3 at the back then it's a perfect environment to get Wilson involved. He's much less exposed and pressured in this formation, he should play a game or get 30 minutes.

 

But...fucking fair play Carra, that was a boss display.