Arsenal 3 Liverpool 2 (Oct 9 2022)

[tlw content]

 

 

 

Report by

Dave Usher

 

Sickening. We lost this through sheer stupidity. For all the clear issues we have at the moment, chalk this loss down to terrible game management. Partly from Klopp and the way we approached the game, which caused us to concede after just one fucking minute, and partly from the players who showed absolutely no awareness of the situation they were in and committed the cardinal sin of conceding a goal from their own set-piece seconds before the half time whistle.

 

It’s easy to overlook that there were a lot of good elements in this performance, especially in the first half when we overcame that self inflicted early setback only to then shoot ourselves in the foot in the most ridiculous manner at the end of it. In between it was pretty impressive for spells. We actually came back again but Michael Oliver then handed the points to Arsenal with a ludicrous penalty. We were shite for much of the second half though and the penalty would never have happened if we’d actually cleared the ball with one of the several chances we had. 

 

I’m just fucking gutted after this. I honestly thought we’d win because Arsenal are overhyped and I really expected us to put in a performance. Arsenal are who I thought they were. Sadly we were nothing like what I thought we’d be. We were in spells but it wasn’t enough, especially when you can’t fucking defend. And make no mistake, we can’t defend. We’re a fucking mess now when we lose the ball. This is what happens when you’re a pressing team that can no longer press. When you push up the field and you don’t have the speed (or desire?) to get back.

 

We can all see it. Klopp can see it too. He’s spoken about it often enough, how the press hasn’t worked and how that’s leaving us (and specifically Trent) exposed too much. That’s what makes this even harder to take. To go there, against a team smelling themselves and riding high at the top of the table, while we’re such a shadow of what we thought we’d be, and start with the attitude we did?? It’s bordering on fucking stupid.

 

I’m not asking for us to abandon our identity and completely scrap how we play. Although that said, our identity is intensity and that abandoned us a couple of months back. That isn’t my point here though. My point is that there’s no fucking shame in going to a tough away venue and being cagey for 10-15 minutes to calm the crowd and stop the opponent getting off to a flyer. I don;’t want us to abandon our attacking principles, I just want us to temper them occasionally when the situation demands it.

 

For us to concede in the way we did, inside the first fucking minute? It’s naive as fuck I’m afraid. Just look at how that goal comes about and how easy it is for them. In the first fucking minute. Honestly, that’s as angry as I’ve been in a long time. You just can’t do that. Sit in for a bit, ease your way into the game. Keep the full backs in with the centre backs and stay in a four. 

 

“That’s not how we play” I hear some cry. Well maybe it should be. Not all the time, I’m not calling for us to go the full Sean Dyche here. I’m just saying that maybe we shouldn’t have Kostas so high up the pitch that Saka is left all alone with less than one minute gone?

 

Look at this screenshot of the goal. Six v five. In their favour. In the first fucking minute of a difficult away game against a team 11 points ahead of us (now 14). Sorry, but there’s just absolutely no way we should be getting counter attacked (and outnumbered!!!) inside the first minute away from home. It’s sheer stupidity or arrogance or both. 

 

 

 

I laughed at Arsenal last season because they came to Anfield and kept passing it around in their own box even though it wasn’t working and it was exactly what we wanted them to do. It was stupid and arrogant from Arteta, especially as it had failed spectacularly the season before. Guess what though, eventually he swallowed his pride and stopped doing it. He became more pragmatic against better teams. Did you see Arsenal doing much of that in this game? No, because it would be stupid.

 

Yet here we are, swaggering in there, dicks swinging, Arsenal style if you like, with some completely unjustified delusion of grandeur. Just because we’ve owned Arsenal for years that doesn’t mean we could just go in there and “be Liverpool”. We’re not Liverpool right now. Not even close. What we did last year and the years before isn’t working now and therefore means nothing. 

 

 

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[fredo49]

Can't disagree with any of that Dave. I've said for a while that we need to be more pragmatic - including making fouls and taking a yellow 'for the team' on occasions. Same happened v Brighton where we could have sent on an extra defender after we went 3-2 up and closed up shop. That second goal on half time was just ridiculous. We should have played the ball backwards to Allison.

 

We will need something remarkable against City to avoid defeat. Not all that long ago we played them off the park in the Charity Shield with the same group of players - maybe we can pull a rabbit out of the hat with the crowd behind us this time.......even Aston Villa managed to hold them at home...

[King Kenny 86]

The crowd need to put in a full intensity 90 mins next week even if the team don't.

Agree it worries me they could destroy us.

Feels like 5 at the back close the space and pace on the counter.

But as poundland city showed yesterday the devastating inside the full back pass, a city staple and once upon a time ours.

Feels really sad that we are saying stuff like "stay in the game and await a chance to come" that's what we have become 

Still COYR thick and thin.

[index1000]

While i agree with your piece its telling that even that biased toad Dermot Gallacher is saying that Oliver got both pens wrong.

I don't get the view that he is a good ref. He is a homer and influenced by the crowd the massive shithouse.

[Dave D]

Maybe Pep will dish out the ultimate insult and rest some of his key players 

[DJLJ]

32 minutes ago, index1000 said:

While i agree with your piece its telling that even that biased toad Dermot Gallacher is saying that Oliver got both pens wrong.

I don't get the view that he is a good ref. He is a homer and influenced by the crowd the massive shithouse.

This is the exact reason why VAR was introduced. When it doesn’t do what it was brought in to do, you then need to question if it is fit for purpose and if the people are running it is fit for purpose. On the last part, obviously not. 

[DaveT]

43 minutes ago, index1000 said:

While i agree with your piece its telling that even that biased toad Dermot Gallacher is saying that Oliver got both pens wrong.

I don't get the view that he is a good ref. He is a homer and influenced by the crowd the massive shithouse.

Wow, it’s rare for dopey Dermot to disagree with a decision. The fact that it’s twice in the same game tells you all you need to know about the performance of Oliver and VAR. He used to be the best of a bad bunch. He’s now sunk to the same level of ineptitude (and bias?) we have to suffer on a weekly basis.

[mike23]

Maybe I'm just getting paranoid but it always seems like if it's a tight call or a decision in our favour that they spend about 5 minutes reviewing it and if it's one against us then it takes about 10 seconds. There was a ridiculously lengthy wait for our first goal to be confirmed at home against Brighton last week. The stream I was watching showed the lines to confirm it was onside at least a good 30 seconds before they finally confirmed it was a goal. It's like they're looking for any possible reason not to give it. Yet they spent about 10 seconds looking at the handball in the first half and for the penalty that was awarded in the second. Maybe you make your own luck, but it does feel like the covid season where we just keep getting really shitty officiating going against us game after game to make things even harder. Fulham and Arsenal both had very soft penalties against us, and they made up some story about VAR decisions giving extra leeway to attackers this year to justify awarding United's second goal against us at Old Trafford (yet don't seem to have given this same extra leeway in a single game since).

 

Not that there weren't enough self-inflicted wounds yesterday. For a team that has won everything the complete ineptitude of our game management was absolutely staggering. Keep it tight and quieten the crowd has been the mantra of pretty much any away team in a big game since football began, yet we just go charging forward and get caught out straight away. Pushing everyone forward for a hopeful punt into the box and getting caught like that for the second goal right on half time has got to be the stupidest goal we've conceded since we threw the game away at Palace chasing goal difference in that 3-3 draw under Rodgers. And whilst the penalty was soft, the Keystones Cops defending that led to it was perhaps even more infuriating. It was generally bordering on farcical how many chances we had to clear it away and just kept screwing it up. 

[Turkish Delight]

On that free kick before half time a simple ball down the wing could easily have got Jota behind on the left side as he had acres of space. Absolute stupidity to play that ball across the pitch.

 

Had a look up on Darren England too. He has a history of not giving us pens on VAR. He hasn't reffed too many games in the Prem and was the fella who disallowed Palace's third against City earlier in the season.

[Section_31]

It's the inevitability of our shitness that's bringing back the bad memories for me. 

 

Even during our darkest days we weren't consistently shit, what made us hard to follow was there'd be a good night and a great performance followed by a total shithouse performance. We're in that zone agian.

 

It took me and probably many others some time to accept those days were behind us, and consistency under Klopp was great, we beat the sides we expected to beat. 

 

Now we're back in that dark zone again where you wouldn't be surprised if we beat City one week then got mullered by Forest the next. It's shit.

[TheSire]

I think the main weakness of Klopp is his inflexibility tactically or where some players are completely undroppable because of blind loyalty.

 

That defeat will feel a kick in the balls and hopefully doesn't knock the wind out the players.

 

We played a really good 1st half but in the 2nd we logged slow as fuck and 2nd to every loose ball.

 

Also, is it me or do we seem to get physically bullied and never win 50/50s? It felt like everything fell to arsenal but it may have been down to better positioning and being quicker and more athletic than us.

 

It feels like a lot of our players are very one footed too where it limits our options in keeping the ball moving. 

[HBenn]

Aside from the football itself, anyone got an idea what this whole investigation is about? Seeing as there seemed to be a load of verbals did wonder if someone is going to be up on a racism charge. Not sure what else could cause the radio silence from all concerned and mean both managers be spoken to.

[Captain Howdy]

1 hour ago, Dave D said:

Maybe Pep will dish out the ultimate insult and rest some of his key players 

Hopefully, it really has the potential to be the football equivalent of a game of thrones episode.

[Bobby Hundreds]

The players just seem completely brain dead. Constantly making the wrong choices, fucking Jota with that pass sideways just dim as fuck. I'd say klopp should be exasperated by their stupidity but he's doubling down on it. Its bizarre how we go from being a nightmare to play to being the team that's a clown outfit and other sides are laughing about.

[dockers_strike]

A sobering read Dave but every word I agree with you and said similar in the match thread. To conceed a goal in the first minute is shocking, in my humble opinion. To lose a 2nd in the last minute of added time at the end of the first half is worse and embarassing.

 

I get the players dont know exactly how much time is left but surely away from home and having equalised a 58 second opener for the home team, you play the percentages on that corner. Yes, you try and score but you dont or shouldnt leave yourself open to the counter like that.

 

Virgil sounded totally down in his post match interview like Ive neve rheard before. Sorry to repeat myself but I think we're virtually back to where we were before Jurgen took over. We look utterly rudderless.

[dave u]

1 hour ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

The players just seem completely brain dead. Constantly making the wrong choices, fucking Jota with that pass sideways just dim as fuck. I'd say klopp should be exasperated by their stupidity but he's doubling down on it. Its bizarre how we go from being a nightmare to play to being the team that's a clown outfit and other sides are laughing about.

 

Forgot to even mention that in the report. I hammered him on the pod for it as it's one of the most inexplicably stupid things I've seen in a while.

[Code]

We have lost two games this season in the league, with even just half decent referees we would still be unbeaten. 

[HBenn]

The really frustrating thing in the first half was that I thought we were pretty good for about 44.5 mins. 

Clearly those bits right at the beginning and end were shocking and like has been said shot us in the foot.

The refs decisions didn't help either. Their first goal looked offside to me and I read tonight that due to issues with VAR they couldn't check whether Saka was offside in the buildup. 

That is not great but the Jota one for me is a stonewall penalty. I get it if the ball is aimlessly going out for a goal kick and it hits a players hand but when it's headed for the penalty spot, where our number 9 is stood and the lad diverts its path with the palm of his hand on what planet can that not be a penalty? So blinking what if he didn't mean it, doesn't stop a goal been given if he scores with his backside does it!

It's typical crap from the referees, overcomplicating something that is really quite simple. 2nd half Gomez gets booked for a throw-in. Why the hell would he be time wasting? Oliver bottled it, that would only happen at Anfield in the 94th minute. 

 

All that aside though, the 2nd half was bad from us I thought. It seemed a mixture of legs going, leadership going and generally being too fucking nice throughout the game. 

 

First half at 1-1 the game was in the balance, for me, until Diaz went off. Arsenal though seemed to realise that he was the problem and were kicking him up in the air. Partey did a black arts fall on him and off he goes. Meanwhile we just left Martinelli alone until Gomez smashed him late on. We just seemed so passive with a lot of their players. For me Konate has to start on Sunday. Virgil and Matip are so bloody passive. They are big lads but dont throw their weight around. 

There was one point we gave away a corner because Matip seemed not to want to hit Hendo so tamely knocked it behind.

In midfield, crikey, the same. How many times did we want to tamely try and clear it. 

 

I can start to see the attraction to Klopp of Milner. At least he doesn't pussy foot about and shows some real leadership. Maybe it's confidence but you can see Klopp sees it like we do. He shouldn't be blaming himself for not shouting at one of his many (experienced) players to stay back moments before half time. 

 

Losing Diaz was a body blow as it seemed to rob us of the vast majority of our energy but had we been more aggressive and got in amongst them more we still could have won. Considering how bad we were and how good they are meant to be that was the most frustrating thing. 

 

We have to be more aggressive Vs City and somehow we need to keep the tempo up against them for 90 mins. 

[dockers_strike]

2 hours ago, Code said:

We have lost two games this season in the league, with even just half decent referees we would still be unbeaten. 

I see a flaw in your cunning plan!

[Code]

25 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

I see a flaw in your cunning plan!

Yes sadly. 

[Mark M]

4 hours ago, Code said:

We have lost two games this season in the league, with even just half decent referees we would still be unbeaten. 

Or half decent Salah performances….

[Anubis]

VAR….

 

 

[Bobby Hundreds]

Corrupt. They just want to create a competition for city. I dont think Arsenal are that competition they are riding their luck.

[Section_31]

I don't really go in for the corruption talk, I just think they're shite. It's an old boys' network with people like Roy Hodgson despatched on UEFA fact-finding missions to St Tropez and Trevor Brooking put in charge of youth development. 

 

Var is shite for the same reason England never - ever - wins anything. It's a cabal of half-wits designed to keep each other in employment at all costs. 

[Ipplfc]

Darren England is the VAR official for the city game,

how is that even possible