Greatest Male Solo Artist - FINAL - David Bowie vs Bob Dylan

[VladimirIlyich]

1 hour ago, Bjornebye said:

Willy & Bottom 

Was that their collaboration name?

[Tony Moanero]

I’m a little surprised no one has nominated Kirsty MacColl.

[Mook]

4 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

I’m a little surprised no one has nominated Kirsty MacColl.

That would be a bit weird nominating her in the Male final, Tony.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Another good shout out.

[cloggypop]

3 minutes ago, Mook said:

That would be a bit weird nominating her in the Male final, Tony.

No way she's beating Bowie. 

[Tony Moanero]

29 minutes ago, Mook said:

That would be a bit weird nominating her in the Male final, Tony.

Ha ha. Balls!

 

[VladimirIlyich]

37 minutes ago, Mook said:

That would be a bit weird nominating her in the Male final, Tony.

Sexist.

[SasaS]

It's a retro hipster thing.

[Barrington Womble]

4 hours ago, SasaS said:

It's a middle aged white man's hipster forum.

I must admit a reverence of Jackson on here has been a revelatione, I thought he was finished 20 years ago, except with the hardcore fans and quite honestly, even in his heyday I never met anyone who would admit buying his records beyond the age of 15. I know he was a megaseller, but so was Meatloaf. Is this a posthumous thing or was he constantly held in such high regard?

 

@Mook, what were the elements of his influence, the only thing I remember hearing about was that base on Billie Jean? Surely people were singing and dancing and making hugely expensive videos before him too?   

Sure there's lots of middle aged white blokes here, I'm one. Which is why I said it! I know loads of people who thought Bowie was shit in the 80s (when I was a teenager), yet could almost shed a tear when he was dead, but probably never bought record.

 

You might struggle to find people admitting they'd bought a Jackson album, but that's because people are fickle cunts. The same is true of U2, yet there's a reason they can still sell stadiums when they must all be hitting 60. If Jackson didn't have his kiddie fiddling reputation and had instead fucked loads of boss birds, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be seen as so uncool musically. 

 

I think Jackson for sure was aimed at younger listeners, music generally was then even when it wasn't. Nearly everyone wanted a chart hit and you didn't get one of them if the kids didn't like it. For example Dancing in the Dark only made Springsteen's Born in the USA album because they needed a single for the kids. And if you go back, it didn't do the Beatles any harm playing for the kids. 

 

But for years, certainly across thriller and bad, Jackson completely dominated the music scene and you couldn't go anywhere without his music being played. When he toured in the late 80s, his shows were all people were talking about, young and old. He was on the news, wall to wall on MTV, you couldn't open a paper without him having a story. Comparing him to meatloaf is like comparing Liverpool to Ipswich Town. And Jackson maybe had better material before those two albums, but it was that "MTV era" that really defined him. He was known as the King of Pop, because he was. 

 

I'm not even saying Jackson should win this, but I think it's a bit of a nonsense that Bowie and Dylan are ahead of him. 

[The Midnight Rambler]

I think longevity comes into it. Bob released a 5/5 album only a month back. Fucking Ed Sheran is probably the king of pop now, the cunt could sell out 10 Wembley dates, piece of piss but he’s never going to get a vote on here (code apart)

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

No Elvis, Prince or Michael Jackson in the final?

 

As much as I love Bowie, he's not on the level of any of the above.
 

[johnsusername]

12 minutes ago, 1892-LFCWasBorn said:

No Elvis, Prince or Michael Jackson in the final?

 

As much as I love Bowie, he's not on the level of any of the above.
 

 

 

[SasaS]

19 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Sure there's lots of middle aged white blokes here, I'm one. Which is why I said it! I know loads of people who thought Bowie was shit in the 80s (when I was a teenager), yet could almost shed a tear when he was dead, but probably never bought record.

 

You might struggle to find people admitting they'd bought a Jackson album, but that's because people are fickle cunts. The same is true of U2, yet there's a reason they can still sell stadiums when they must all be hitting 60. If Jackson didn't have his kiddie fiddling reputation and had instead fucked loads of boss birds, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be seen as so uncool musically. 

 

I think Jackson for sure was aimed at younger listeners, music generally was then even when it wasn't. Nearly everyone wanted a chart hit and you didn't get one of them if the kids didn't like it. For example Dancing in the Dark only made Springsteen's Born in the USA album because they needed a single for the kids. And if you go back, it didn't do the Beatles any harm playing for the kids. 

 

But for years, certainly across thriller and bad, Jackson completely dominated the music scene and you couldn't go anywhere without his music being played. When he toured in the late 80s, his shows were all people were talking about, young and old. He was on the news, wall to wall on MTV, you couldn't open a paper without him having a story. Comparing him to meatloaf is like comparing Liverpool to Ipswich Town. And Jackson maybe had better material before those two albums, but it was that "MTV era" that really defined him. He was known as the King of Pop, because he was. 

 

I'm not even saying Jackson should win this, but I think it's a bit of a nonsense that Bowie and Dylan are ahead of him. 

I would not dispute the fact Jackson was probably the biggest pop-star from mid to late '80s, but I think you might be overestimating his dominance, as in he was all people talked about on the music scene and you couldn't open a paper without a story about him. He was a wacko so this probably contributed to the media interest because he was a big name and easy to have a story about, with the cosmetic surgery, sexual ambivalence and later the children etc.  After 1990, I think he was more often in the news with the controversies than his music.

Dylan is, for what it is worth, officially recognized as the finest lyricist of them all and was undoubtedly influential during long periods of time, just look at the number of cover versions. Bowie I find increasingly irritating but there is no disputing his influence and stature. I am pretty certain most people writing about music would pick any one of them over Jackson when asked who was "the greatest solo artist". Jackson would be picked as king of the charts at best.

[1892-LFCWasBorn]

Forgot to say that there's not even a contest here when it comes to Elvis.

 

"Nothing affected me until I heard Elvis. Without Elvis, there would be no Beatles", John Lennon famously said about the King of Rock 'n' Roll.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, Tony Moanero said:

Ha ha. Balls!

 

Also - who you calling noone?

[Barrington Womble]

3 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I would not dispute the fact Jackson was probably the biggest pop-star from mid to late '80s, but I think you might be overestimating his dominance, as in he was all people talked about on the music scene and you couldn't open a paper without a story about him. He was a wacko so this probably contributed to the media interest because he was a big name and easy to have a story about, with the cosmetic surgery, sexual ambivalence and later the children etc.  After 1990, I think he was more often in the news with the controversies than his music.

Dylan is, for what it is worth, officially recognized as the finest lyricist of them all and was undoubtedly influential during long periods of time, just look at the number of cover versions. Bowie I find increasingly irritating but there is no disputing his influence and stature. I am pretty certain most people writing about music would pick any one of them over Jackson when asked who was "the greatest solo artist". Jackson would be picked as king of the charts at best.

So if this was a competition of the best lyricist, sure, Dylan should be here. But he can't (and pretty much has never been able to) sing and his live performance have been shite for decades, all of which i would deem as part of making the greatest artist. As for the covers, as I posted earlier, a reflection in his ability as an artist is just about every Dylan cover is better than his original. I remember years ago buying his 30th Anniversary Concert CD, it was the best CD I had of his, which was mostly because it was others singing his music. I don't dispute after the period I mentioned Jackson was known more as a nutjob than his music. 

 

I say all this as someone who is a Dylan fan, bought many of his records (certainly not all though) and I have never bought a Jackson record - but I can see the impact he had as an artist. 

[SasaS]

23 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

So if this was a competition of the best lyricist, sure, Dylan should be here. But he can't (and pretty much has never been able to) sing and his live performance have been shite for decades, all of which i would deem as part of making the greatest artist. As for the covers, as I posted earlier, a reflection in his ability as an artist is just about every Dylan cover is better than his original. I remember years ago buying his 30th Anniversary Concert CD, it was the best CD I had of his, which was mostly because it was others singing his music. I don't dispute after the period I mentioned Jackson was known more as a nutjob than his music. 

 

I say all this as someone who is a Dylan fan, bought many of his records (certainly not all though) and I have never bought a Jackson record - but I can see the impact he had as an artist. 

It may be possible that we differ in our respective definitions of the word impact.

[Mook]

1 hour ago, SasaS said:

I would not dispute the fact Jackson was probably the biggest pop-star from mid to late '80s, but I think you might be overestimating his dominance, as in he was all people talked about on the music scene and you couldn't open a paper without a story about him. He was a wacko so this probably contributed to the media interest because he was a big name and easy to have a story about, with the cosmetic surgery, sexual ambivalence and later the children etc.  After 1990, I think he was more often in the news with the controversies than his music.

Dylan is, for what it is worth, officially recognized as the finest lyricist of them all and was undoubtedly influential during long periods of time, just look at the number of cover versions. Bowie I find increasingly irritating but there is no disputing his influence and stature. I am pretty certain most people writing about music would pick any one of them over Jackson when asked who was "the greatest solo artist". Jackson would be picked as king of the charts at best.

It's usually you who ask the questions around here but how exactly does someone become 'officially recognised as the finest lyricist of them all'?

[Bjornebye]

Just now, Mook said:

It's usually you who ask the questions around here but how exactly does someone become 'officially recognised as the finest lyricist of them all'?

If he says so. 

[SasaS]

1 minute ago, Mook said:

It's usually you who ask the questions around here but how exactly does someone become 'officially recognised as the finest lyricist of them all'?

In this case and as I said, for what is worth, by receiving a Nobel Prize for his efforts.

[Mook]

3 minutes ago, SasaS said:

In this case and as I said, for what is worth, by receiving a Nobel Prize for his efforts.

I bet Snap weren't even up for it though.

 

Load of bollocks.

[SasaS]

1 minute ago, Mook said:

I bet Snap weren't even up for it though.

 

Load of bollocks.

It may have been the Swedish literary mafia links, via Minnesota connection.

 

 

[johnsusername]

All these people arguing over Dylan and Wacko...

 

[TheHowieLama]

any harm playing for the kids. 

 

Playing for the kids = ok

Playing with the kids = not ok

[Captain Howdy]

Worthy winner. Bowie was a magnificent artist, he had it all.