Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, sir roger said:

Other than the title of the article, where is there any mention of him being a Corbyn supporter ?

 

Underneath a photo of Jeremy Corbyn.

 

The smearers can't just accept that they've won and leave the bloke to carry on with his job as an MP.

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

This is the most recent one (it's his second conviction).

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nicholas-nelson-jeremy-corbyn-supporter-131529441.html

 

I think a rational response to that might be to say that he’s a complete shithead. 

[sir roger]

Think he was a complete cunt for dragging in innocent staff to his abuse, but other than the swearing the email to Ellman is pretty much spot on  and Hodge has some neck complaining after her performance with Corbyn and her frivolous and disgusting claims of anti-semitism against hundreds of people.

[Bjornebye]

12 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

I might have asked this before SD and I'm not saying Corbyn couldn't have dealt with things better (we don't really know what went on but it appears his leadership has to be questioned) but do you think Corbyn is anti-semitic. Just a yes or no is fine. 

Knew it. 

[Rico1304]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/26/jeremy-corbyn-start-legal-action-over-suspension-labour-whip

[Dougie Do'ins]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/26/jeremy-corbyn-start-legal-action-over-suspension-labour-whip

Wonder if Starmer will represent the Labour Party/himself.

[Numero Veinticinco]

3 minutes ago, Dougie Do'ins said:

Wonder if Starmer will represent the Labour Party/himself.

Of course not. I’m sure he’ll be looking at bloody everything though. 

[Rico1304]

6 minutes ago, Dougie Do'ins said:

Wonder if Starmer will represent the Labour Party/himself.

@davidallengreen will give good commentary tomorrow 

[Dougie Do'ins]

12 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

@davidallengreen will give good commentary tomorrow 

Just been having a look at his twitter page.

 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

 

[sir roger]

I enjoy some of the stuff on Labour List but it is firmly aimed at the moderate / centrist wing of the party so I would imagine the members polled may well be skewed in that direction and make the results even more worrying for the leadership.

 

[Gnasher]

7 hours ago, Numero said:

 

So much for unity then. I imagine those polls will be more clear cut and swerve dramatically against Corbyn in a few months time after even more members decide to leave.

[Rico1304]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

So much for unity then. I imagine those polls will be more clear cut and swerve dramatically against Corbyn in a few months time after even more members decide to leave.

It doesn’t matter if members leave. It matters who votes for Labour at the election. 

[Bruce Spanner]

5 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

It doesn’t matter if members leave. It matters who votes for Labour at the election. 

You don’t have win to be a winner etc...

[Section_31]

2 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

It doesn’t matter if members leave. It matters who votes for Labour at the election. 

 

Yep. Also, a lot of the people who engage with surveys and the likes will be motivated to do so and a lot will be Corbyn supporters I imagine, there's a big silent majority out there that don't give a fuck either way and just want a labour government.

 

I've always voted Labour, my family have always voted Labour, I view them as by far the lesser of two evils. I've never been interested in the party or being in politics. 

 

When I got my current job I basically had to join the party. I deal with a couple of CLPs and everything I've seen and heard is horrendous. Most ordinary folk can't he arsed going and if they do, pretty quickly they're (very deliberately) put off from going again. 

 

As a result, the CLP inner workings are dominated by a tight nit group of people, most pro Corbyn still. The top of the party may again be dominated by 'Centrists', I dunno, but at grassroots level it won't be because centrist voters, by definition and by design, can't be doing with the aggro at meetings.

 

I don't vote in Labour elections (except for the leadership) I don't read Labour list, respond to surveys or read the paraphernalia then send me.

 

When I leave this job (hopefully soon) I'll continue voting Labour for the reasons above, but will cancel my membership and want absolutely nothing to do with anyone involved in it.

[Rico1304]

https://davidallengreen.com/2020/11/jeremy-corbyn-and-the-odd-looking-application-for-pre-action-disclosure/

[sir roger]

2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

 

 

When I got my current job I basically had to join the party. I deal with a couple of CLPs and everything I've seen and heard is horrendous. Most ordinary folk can't he arsed going and if they do, pretty quickly they're (very deliberately) put off from going again. 

 

As a result, the CLP inner workings are dominated by a tight nit group of people, most pro Corbyn still. The top of the party may again be dominated by 'Centrists', I dunno, but at grassroots level it won't be because centrist voters, by definition and by design, can't be doing with the aggro at meetings.

 

 

I'm sorry that isn't true , a few left wing CLPs may make a bit more noise and be reported by the msm in more detail, but the Councils and CLP's are still in the main run by people who have been there for years as is almost always borne out by votes for NEC positions.

 

[Bruce Spanner]

3 minutes ago, sir roger said:

I'm sorry that isn't true , a few left wing CLPs may make a bit more noise and be reported by the msm in more detail, but the Councils and CLP's are still in the main run by people who have been there for years as is almost always borne out by votes for NEC positions.

 

Maybe the case before momentum started to work hard on getting ‘their’ members in.

 

Landscape changed significantly post 2017.

[sir roger]

It did in quite a few localities but the fact that skwawkbox appear to be able to put each single clp up in a thread if they are sending motions about the Starmer / Corbyn rows suggest it is not that widespread.

[Numero Veinticinco]

5 hours ago, Gnasher said:

So much for unity then. I imagine those polls will be more clear cut and swerve dramatically against Corbyn in a few months time after even more members decide to leave.

So if he literally did nothing about Corbyn’s response to the report or let him back in the PLP, do you think unity would have been achieved? I honestly wonder why Corbyn, Miliband, Brown, or Blair didn’t just achieve unity. It’s as simple as just ignoring the issue and hoping people don’t complain, right? No. No, of course it isn’t.
 

If Starmer didn’t act, the unity of the party would be as much of an issue but from the other side. This is the problem with deep division, if it’s not one side it’s the other. You think the ‘right-wing’ (centre-left) would have let this go? That if he didn’t act after the report and Corbyn’s response, it would be dropped? Look at how they’ve acted the last five years. Come on, unity isn’t achieved through letting things go, it’s either by bringing people together (it has become increasingly clear that this ain’t happening) or by winning a power struggle.

What I think frustrates me about this is the implication that Starmer has caused this disunity rather that it being one of several big, rotten issues he inherited and has to sort out. I don’t think some people on here understand quite how poorly Corbyn’s response to the report was received, and if they do they don’t seem to care. Unity can only be achieved if both sides want it, need it, or are forced into it, or some combination of that. There will never be any unity in the Labour Party until this Corbyn issue is dealt with. Not antisemitism, not policy differences, but Corbyn. It - he - runs deep with people, both their blinkered support and their blinkered hatred. 

 

The only reason I give a single fuck about Labour, Starmer, Corbyn, or any of this banal nightmare is because they are the one party that can win power away from the Tories. Factional Labourites, by virtue of them all being self-destructive dickheads with the left hand wanting to cut off its right hand, and the right foot wanting to cut off the left foot, instead of coming out kicking and punching, deserve to split and crumble. These people aren’t defenders of labour - working people - in the UK. They’re defenders of themselves and their faction. 

 

People in Labour, especially on the left at the moment, and on the ‘right’ before, need to stop pretending they care more about winning elections, about policies, and about unity than they do about their own faction beating the other faction. Tell me how CLPs defying orders, voting for no confidence in the leader, and talking of support and solidarity with Corbyn is actually a service for the Labour Party unity with the goal of beating the Tories. This split isn’t about ideology, it’s about us vs them. If there can’t be any unity, cut out the necrotic flesh and let it regrow. If that’s Corbyn, so be it. I’d sooner the party split and have to rebuilt than be forced to watch them sabotage each other into more and more Tory governments. 

[Scooby Dudek]

Only one side of the party has shown that they care more about being in control of the party than being control of the country.

 

 

Starmer, should have let the investigation run it course. Once the NEC voted unanimously to let him back into the party, that should have been an end to it. It appears people then kicked off and he once again tried to appease these people and as most know whatever you do will never be enough.

 

No one knows what discussions took place between the leadership and Corbyn, but I am very surprised Corbyn is going to court either way. The evidence presented will tell us a lot of where people's priorities lie, on both sides.

[Sugar Ape]

With regards to membership figures I saw some quotes on the numbers the other day in this. 
 

 

 

 

[Jairzinho]

Everything seems to be going really well.

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, Scooby Dudek said:

Only one side of the party has shown that they care more about being in control of the party than being control of the country..

Seriously, this is what I’m talking about. It’s them, not us. Okay, we are going out of our way to undermine leadership on social media, funding legal action for the last leader, starting legal proceedings against the party, voting in Corbyn-supporting areas against Starmer and Evans, but we really are the ones who care more about the country than controlling the party, honest. They’re the baddies and we are the goodies.
 

I’m starting to despise large parts of the left. I love left wing policy - it’s in my very core - but many left wingers these days are prats. The group think, the tribalism over Corbyn as if he’s special in any way, the unfounded sense of superiority... they’re so often incorrigible dicks. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

11 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

With regards to membership figures I saw some quotes on the numbers the other day in this. 
 

 

 

 

Tempted to neg this for lack of tl;dr.