Liverpool FC striker Nathan Eccleston under investigation by club after claiming 9/11

[PestiRed]

Watch this, they explain the thermite stuff - although obviously MI6 forced the BBC to make the documentary as part of the cover-up and the experts are really actors - possibly the guys on the flight that never crashed who were given new lives & sworn to secrecy

BBC iPlayer - The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 Ten Years On

[Antynwa]

Watch this, they explain the thermite stuff - although obviously MI6 forced the BBC to make the documentary as part of the cover-up and the experts are really actors - possibly the guys on the flight that never crashed who were given new lives & sworn to secrecy

BBC iPlayer - The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 Ten Years On

 

I watched a tv show where they sat down a bunch of people who believed in the conspiracy, and basically they debunked the myths.

 

For example, lets take the pentagon plane. A University ran a simulation of the plane crashing into the pentagon, and the hole left was consistent with the sim.

 

The same goes for the sim of the planes crashing into the towers. The funniest was though when they had this demolition expert on, and he was saying to bring down the towers you would need to get to the individual columns, and even then you'd need a ton of C4/Dynamite which would leave thousands of metres of wiring.

 

Then the conspiracy theorists started laughing, and talked about Thermite being what brought it down. However thermite didn't do enough damage to the steel to cause it to bend in the way a shit load of jet fuel did. Then they came out and said 'What about SUPER THERMITE.

 

It was funny.

[PestiRed]

Yeah I saw that, it was very funny, particularly the girl who clearly would not listen to anything that might upset her world view.

 

Best bit was when they took them to the guy who invented voice replication technology & he told them that it would be impossible to fake the phone calls in the way they thought. Then later on the asian guy said "nah, it's easy, i could do it"

 

I though the presenter did extremely well in staying polite when you could clearly see he was so frustrated with how stupid some of them were that he wanted to slap them

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

Yeah I saw that, it was very funny, particularly the girl who clearly would not listen to anything that might upset her world view.

 

Best bit was when they took them to the guy who invented voice replication technology & he told them that it would be impossible to fake the phone calls in the way they thought. Then later on the asian guy said "nah, it's easy, i could do it"

 

I though the presenter did extremely well in staying polite when you could clearly see he was so frustrated with how stupid some of them were that he wanted to slap them

I actually dont believe in the conspiracy bit but I wouldnt put it past them on previous.

 

I believe the point they knew what was going to happen if not being that date,but they knew what was planned and used it to there advantage in getting what they wanted.

 

America are the biggest single threat to the world since us British were before them.

 

Look into all the shit they have been involved in South America since 1970.

 

America does what they want and will get away with it and they dont give a damn about who they hurt along the way.

 

Oh and theres different types of thermite by the way.I think but not sure on this that they all appear the same,some dont even burn and the stuff in that report I think it states its a military type used in bombs,once again not to sure.

[Antynwa]

I actually dont believe in the conspiracy bit but I wouldnt put it past them on previous.

 

I believe the point they knew what was going to happen if not being that date,but they knew what was planned and used it to there advantage in getting what they wanted.

 

America are the biggest single threat to the world since us British were before them.

 

Look into all the shit they have been involved in South America since 1970.

 

America does what they want and will get away with it and they dont give a damn about who they hurt along the way.

 

Oh and theres different types of thermite by the way.I think but not sure on this that they all appear the same,some dont even burn and the stuff in that report I think it states its a military type used in bombs,once again not to sure.

 

This is the thing, you're not too sure. There maybe a more 'flamable' thermite, but this has yet to be seen. Even using normal thermite didn't do as much structural damage to the steel as the jet fuel.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

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</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top">

</td> </tr> </tbody></table> The Critics of 9/11 Truth: Do They Have A Case?

By Paul Craig Roberts

 

September 13, 2011 "Information Clearing House" -- The short answer to the question in the title is no.

 

The 9/11 truth critics have nothing but ad hominem arguments.

 

Let’s examine the case against the truthers presented by Ted Rall, Ann Barnhardt, and Alexander Cockburn.

 

But first let’s define who the truthers are.

 

The Internet has made it possible for anyone to have a web site and to rant and speculate to their heart’s content. There are a large number of 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

Many on both sides of the issue are equally ignorant. Neither side has any shame about demonstrating ignorance.

 

Both sides of the issue have conspiracy theories. 9/11 was a conspiracy whether a person believes that it was an inside job or that a handful of Arabs outwitted the entire intelligence apparatus of the Western world and the operational response of NORAD and the US Air Force.

 

For one side to call the other conspiracy theorists is the pot calling the kettle black.

 

The question turns not on name-calling but on evidence.

 

The 9/11 Truth movement was not created by bloggers ranting on their web sites. It was created by professional architects and engineers some of whom are known for having designed steel high rise buildings. It was created by distinguished scientists, such as University of Copenhagen nano-Chemist Niels Harrit who has 60 scientific papers to his credit and physicist Steven Jones. It was created by US Air Force pilots and commercial airline pilots who are expert at flying airplanes. It was created by firefighters who were in the twin towers and who personally heard and experienced numerous explosions including explosions in the sub-basements. It was created by members of 9/11 families who desire to know how such an improbable event as 9/11 could possibly occur.

 

The professionals and the scientists are speaking from the basis of years of experience and expert knowledge. Moreover, the scientists are speaking from the basis of careful research into the evidence that exists. When an international research team of scientists spends 18 months studying the components in the dust from the towers and the fused pieces of concrete and steel, they know what they are doing. When they announce that they have definite evidence of incendiaries and explosives, you can bet your life that that have the evidence.

 

When a physicist proves that Building 7 (the stories not obscured by other buildings) fell at free fall speed and NIST has to acknowledge that he is correct, you can bet your life that the physicist is correct.

 

When fire department captains and clean-up teams report molten steel--and their testimony is backed up with photographs--in the debris of the ruins weeks and months after the buildings’ destruction, you can bet your life the molten steel was there. When the same authorities report pumping fire suppressants and huge quantities of water with no effect on the molten steel, you can bet your life that the temperature long after the buildings’ destruction remained extremely high, far higher than any building fire can reach.

 

When the architects, engineers, and scientists speak, they offer no theory of who is responsible for 9/11. They state that the known evidence supports neither the NIST reports nor the 9/11 Commission Report. They say that the explanation that the government has provided is demonstrably wrong and that an investigation is required if we are to discover the truth about the event.

 

It is not a conspiracy theory to examine the evidence and to state that the evidence does not support the explanation that has been given.

 

That is the position of the 9/11 Truth movement.

 

What is the position of the movement’s critics? Ted Rall says: “Everything I’ve read and watched on Truther sites is easily dismissed by anyone with a basic knowledge of physics and architecture. (I spent three years in engineering school.)   The Truth About 9/11 Truthers  :   Information Clearing House News

 

Wow! What powerful credentials. Has Rall ever designed a high rise steel building? Could Rall engage in a debate with a professor of nano-chemistry? Could he refute Newton’s laws in a debate with university physicists? Does Rall know anything about maneuvering airplanes? Does he have an explanation why 100 firefighters, janitors, and police report hearing and experiencing explosions that they did not hear or experience?

 

Clearly, Ted Rall has no qualifications whatsoever to make any judgment about the judgments of experts whose knowledge exceeds his meager understanding by a large amount.

 

Ann Barnhardt writes: “I gotta tell you, I’ve just about had it with these 9/11 truthers. If there is one phenomenon in our sick, sick culture that sums up how far gone and utterly damaged we are as a people, it is 9/11 trutherism. It pretty much covers everything: self-loathing, antisemitism, zero knowledge of rudimentary physics and a general inability to think logically.” She goes down hill from here. Barnhardt.biz - Commodity Brokerage

 

Amazing, isn’t she? Physics professors have “zero knowledge of rudimentary physics.”

Internationally recognized logicians have “a general inability to think logically.” People trained in the scientific method who use it to seek truth are “self-loathing.” If you doubt the government’s account you are antisemitic. Barnhardt then provides her readers with a lesson in physics, structural architecture and engineering, and the behavior of steel under heat and stress that is the most absolute nonsense imaginable.

 

Obviously, Barnhardt knows nothing whatsoever about what she is talking about, but overflowing with hubris she dismisses real scientists and professionals with ad hominem

arguments. She adds to her luster with a video of herself tearing out pages of the Koran, which she has marked with slices of bacon, and burning the pages.

 

Now we come to Alex Cockburn. He is certainly not stupid. I know him. He is pleasant company. He provides interesting intellectual conversation. I like him. Yet, he also arrogantly dismisses highly qualified experts who provide evidence contrary to the official government story of 9/11.

 

Alex avoids evidence presented by credentialed experts and relies on parody. He writes that the conspiracists claim that the twin towers “pancaked because Dick Cheney’s agents--scores of them--methodically planted demolition charges.” The 9/11 Conspiracists: Vindicated After All These Years? » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

 

Little doubt but there are bloggers somewhere in the vast Internet world who say this. But this is not what the professionals are saying who have provided evidence that the official account is not correct. The experts are simply saying that the evidence does not support the official explanation. More recently, an international team of scientists has reported finding unequivocal evidence of incendiaries and explosives. They have not said anything about who planted them. Indeed, they have said that other scientists should test their conclusions by repeating the research. After calling experts “conspiracy kooks,” Alex then damns them for not putting forward “a scenario of the alleged conspiracy.”

 

Moreover, not a single one of the experts believes the towers “pancaked.” This was an early explanation that, I believe, was tentatively put forward by NIST, but it had to be abandoned because of the speed with which the buildings came down and due to other problems.

 

Unlike Rall and Barnhardt, Alex does refer to evidence, but it is second or third-hand hearsay evidence that is nonsensical on its face. For example, Alex writes that Chuck Spinney “tells me that ‘there ARE pictures taken of the 757 plane hitting Pentagon--they were taken by the surveillance cameras at Pentagon’s heliport, which was right next to impact point. I have seen them both--stills and moving pictures. I just missed seeing it personally, but the driver of the van I just got out of in South Parking saw it so closely that he could see the terrified faces of passengers in windows.’”

 

If there were pictures or videos of an airliner hitting the Pentagon, they would have been released years ago. They would have been supplied to the 9/11 Commission. Why would the government refuse for 10 years to release pictures that prove its case? The FBI confiscated all film from all surveillance cameras. No one has seen them, much less a Pentagon critic such as Spinney.

 

I have to say that the van driver must have better eyes than an eagle if he could see expressions on passenger faces through those small airliner portholes in a plane traveling around 500 mph. Try it sometimes. Sit on your front steps and try to discern the expressions of automobile passengers through much larger and clearer windows traveling down your street in a vehicle moving 30 mph. Then kick the speed up 16.7 times to 500 mph and report if you see anything but a blur.

 

Alex’s other evidence that 9/11 truthers are kooks is a letter that Herman Soifer, who claims to be a retired structural engineer, wrote to him summarizing “the collapse of Buildings 1 and 2 succinctly.” This is what Soifer, who “had followed the plans and engineering of the Towers during construction” wrote to Alex: “The towers were basically tubes, essentially hollow.” This canard was disposed of years ago. If Alex had merely googled the plans of the buildings, he would have discovered that there were no thin-walled hollow tubes, but a very large number of massively thick steel beams.

 

Alex’s willingness to dismiss as kooks numerous acknowledged experts on the basis of a claim that a van driver saw terrified faces of passengers moving at 500 mph and a totally erroneous description in a letter from a person who knew nothing whatsoever about the structural integrity of the buildings means that he is a much braver person than I.

 

Before I call architects kooks whose careers were spent building steel high rises, I would want to know a lot more about the subject than I do. Before I poke fun at nano-chemists and physicists, I would want to at least be able to read their papers and find the scientific flaws in their arguments.

 

Yet, none of the people who ridicule 9/11 skeptics are capable of this. How, for example, can Rall, Barnhardt, or Cockburn pass judgment on a nano-chemist with 40 years of experience and 60 scientific publications to his credit?

 

They cannot, but nevertheless do. They don’t hesitate to pass judgment on issues about which they have no knowledge or understanding. This is an interesting psychological phenomenon worthy of study and analysis.

 

Another interesting phenomenon is the strong emotional reactions that many have to 9/11, an event about which they have little information. Even the lead members of the 9/11 Commission itself have said that information was withheld from them and the commission was set up to fail. People who rush to the defense of NIST do not even know what they are defending as NIST refuses to release the details of the simulation upon which NIST bases its conclusion.

 

There is no 9/11 debate. On the one hand there are credentialed experts who demonstrate problems in the official account, and on the other hand there are non-experts who denounce the experts as conspiracy kooks. The experts are cautious and careful about what they say, and their detractors have thrown caution and care to the wind. That is the state of the debate.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

This is the thing, you're not too sure. There maybe a more 'flamable' thermite, but this has yet to be seen. Even using normal thermite didn't do as much structural damage to the steel as the jet fuel.

It was nano thermite and I have no idea how it got there or who put it there.

 

Look it up on the net as to who uses it and what it does and how it works.

[Duff Man]

If you think any government, or even organisation for that matter, in the entire fucking world could pull off something of that magnitude, or even be complicit in it, without a single leak ever coming out then you're fucking mental. I don't even want to read any of that shit about marmite or stress fractures or any of that other shite because it's completely irrelevant. There is no way a plot of that scale could be kept quiet. Ever. Anywhere

[Anubis]

[ChrisM]

For example, lets take the pentagon plane. A University ran a simulation of the plane crashing into the pentagon, and the hole left was consistent with the sim.

 

Oh, come on now, you're only seeing what you want to see, what the media will allow you to see. It's a well known FACT that no plane wreckage was ever found at the Pentagon, NONE WHATSOEVER!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sugar Ape]

Oh, come on now, you're only seeing what you want to see, what the media will allow you to see. It's a well known FACT that no plane wreckage was ever found at the Pentagon, NONE WHATSOEVER!

 

The plane wreckage was planted there by god, just like Dinosaur fossils.

[Pliskken]

Join Nathan again next week when he turns his attention to the Loch Ness Monster and yeti sightings....

[Captain]

Everyone knows that something happened on 9/11 that is being covered up, but what is it? Is it that planes didn’t collapse 2 buildings which fell with precision as if they were being brought down by a controlled demolition?

 

They were massive skyscrapers, Aaron. What did you expect them to do, jump into the fucking Hudson?

[Anubis]

The plane wreckage was planted there by god, just like Dinosaur fossils.

 

Nonsense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those photos are obviously Photoshopped.

[MLB]

I think that might be the point Ant, lots of people believe they should have known! He was their number one target since Nairobi, they should have had him under surveillance and they should have known far more than they did about how they operate but they knew the square root of fuck all.

 

That is what the worlds only Superpower doesn't want you to know, that it takes two planes being flown into an iconic building for an organisation to register on their radar.

 

Just as the Americans can't accept a bloke can walk up the stairs to an unused office and shoot the most powerful man in the world, without anyone saying 'Whose that in the window up there?'.

 

 

 

If you think that the CIA and other US intelligence agencies really knew "the square root of fuck all" about Bin Laden and associated Islamic terrorist groups then you're living in a fantasy world, in my opinion. These are generally highly competent, intelligent people who know exactly who their enemies are and where they are.

[TrimmTrabb]

If you think any government, or even organisation for that matter, in the entire fucking world could pull off something of that magnitude, or even be complicit in it, without a single leak ever coming out then you're fucking mental. I don't even want to read any of that shit about marmite or stress fractures or any of that other shite because it's completely irrelevant. There is no way a plot of that scale could be kept quiet. Ever. Anywhere

 

If this was 1984 than you would definitely be a strong candidate for the 'inner party'.

[Anubis]

If you think any government, or even organisation for that matter, in the entire fucking world could pull off something of that magnitude, or even be complicit in it, without a single leak ever coming out then you're fucking mental. I don't even want to read any of that shit about marmite or stress fractures or any of that other shite because it's completely irrelevant. There is no way a plot of that scale could be kept quiet. Ever. Anywhere

 

Well said that man.

 

 

 

*Strokes cat and smiles knowingly.....*

[Mathewbet1]

''Below average LFC Youth player stimulates en mass debate shocker''

[Joe Le Taxi]

[Guest San Don]

Oh, come on now, you're only seeing what you want to see, what the media will allow you to see. It's a well known FACT that no plane wreckage was ever found at the Pentagon, NONE WHATSOEVER!

 

The conspiracy theorists also calmly ignore the witnesses who saw the plane dive into the Pentagon.

 

They also say there is no film footage of the plane but if you look at the still pictures of that side of the Pentagon where it hit, you can just see something coming in at the far right before there's an explosion.

 

Travelling at over 500mph you arent going to get many frames of the thing.

 

So, they ignore the witnesses, they ignore the debris and after saying there was no picture or pictures, now people have pointed this out, they just dismiss it.

 

They really are a joke. I like a good conspiracy theory like the rest of them but fuck me, some people make it their life to believe anything that's the opposite of the facts.

[Gym Beglin]

Still, I expected that the pentagon would have a few cameras trained on it, you know, seeing as they don't like unannounced guests dropping by.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Still, I expected that the pentagon would have a few cameras trained on it, you know, seeing as they don't like unannounced guests dropping by.

 

Are your eyes swiveling? I bet they are.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

The conspiracy theorists also calmly ignore the witnesses who saw the plane dive into the Pentagon.

 

They also say there is no film footage of the plane but if you look at the still pictures of that side of the Pentagon where it hit, you can just see something coming in at the far right before there's an explosion.

 

Travelling at over 500mph you arent going to get many frames of the thing.

 

So, they ignore the witnesses, they ignore the debris and after saying there was no picture or pictures, now people have pointed this out, they just dismiss it.

 

They really are a joke. I like a good conspiracy theory like the rest of them but fuck me, some people make it their life to believe anything that's the opposite of the facts.

 

I know makes me laugh over the pentagon plane still I think flying that low at that speed is a pretty tricky thing t o do,more so when you consider it had to go under telegraph lines and level up to.

 

Also that turn the plane done is practically imposable to do,theres very few people who can make it.

 

So I can understand people saying it was a drone of some sort and also the camera thing is a bit weird as theres a hell of alot more than 1 camera trained on it.

 

They took the film from the petrol station camera opposite to the pentagon as well

They could of sorted all this conspiracy stuff out years ago by releasing everything about what happend,they even said it would all be released in 2009 bu t they never did.

 

So I can understand why people have theories on what happend,especially after the likes of the 9/11 enquiry says it was set up to fail.

 

oh and thanks for the neg silverling and i hope your negging everybody than again i guess you love me because you cant stop negging me.

[isr]

If you think any government, or even organisation for that matter, in the entire fucking world could pull off something of that magnitude, or even be complicit in it, without a single leak ever coming out then you're fucking mental. I don't even want to read any of that shit about marmite or stress fractures or any of that other shite because it's completely irrelevant. There is no way a plot of that scale could be kept quiet. Ever. Anywhere

 

Yet a group of Arabs, in Germany and Afghanistan, did manage to pull a plot of that scale off, without a single leak?

 

:whistle:

[Guest ShoePiss]

Barbara Olson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia