Andy Carroll, what does he do?

[Strontium]

Exactly. His first 18 months have been fucking dreadful, but if he shows some real promise in the next few games, maybe he can turn it around. I don't think he's the right player, and I don't think he has the intelligence or ability, but hopefully he can improve.

 

 

If he improves, maybe he can be almost as good as Connor Wickham (13 league games, 1 goal).

[piscinin]

I mean, do we set-up to get the best out of him? I think it's pretty ineffective in the modern game. Teams can nullify that. Whether it's the long ball, or Downing on the wing, teams are nullifying that. So we can either hope we get better at playing long ball and/or wing play (with Downing it passing it backwards all the time), or we can get in some players to really do some damage.

 

What we need to do IMO is more coaching. We are leaving players to find solutions to problems and without being propped up by a benitezesque scaffolding of rigid formations and instructions they are struggling badly. We took the training wheels off way to quickly and they need to go back on.

 

I dunno, maybe I'm getting old and impatient, but I hope we manage to get some new players in and change it up. I've never been one for demanding instant success. Empires are built, but we've been going in the wrong direction this season. That's not only hard to take, but hard to envisage a bright future for.

 

I feel that way sometimes but every so often I manage to switch my mindset from the benitezesque system centered perspective to this more player centered perspective and it doesn't seem so bad. We need to do it more though, but I think you like me have also said, the problem here is not just a couple of shit players who can be changed up.

 

For example, I worry more about Gerrard who still does not seem to have been able to work out how to be an effective attacking force from central midfield.

[A_S]

Don't know if this has been posted yet. Good write up from Prentice in the Echo today:

 

 

David Prentice: Liverpool FC striker Andy Carroll grows in stature following derby match-winning heroics at Wembley

 

by David Prentice, Liverpool EchoApr 16 2012Comments (9) Recommend

 

...It’s a curious statistic that Andy Carroll hasn’t started more than three successive games all season.

Saturday’s heroics have surely earned him the right for a third successive start against West Bromwich Albion next weekend.

 

But perhaps now it’s time to give him a prolonged run in the first team. He could belatedly become the big player all Reds fans have craved.

 

 

Did that not stand out to anyone else? It'd be hard to keep on a roll when the wheels are constantly taken out from under you.

 

Come on Kenny, play him every game from here on in and see what he can do!!

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

If he improves, maybe he can be almost as good as Connor Wickham (13 league games, 1 goal).

 

What a ridiculous point, devoid of all perspective. Sounds like a Strontium Dog post... oh, it is you.

 

I'd swap Carroll (30 games, 4 goals, 17 starts) for Wickham (5 starts, one of which he came off after just 90 seconds, 1 goal, 19 years old, just moved up a division, and plays for Sunderland) right now. Wickham is the far better prospect, in my opinion. Not to mention that he's going to cost around 10m-12m, dependant on appearances, not £35m.

 

Next.

[Coro]

Canny Kenny or incredibly stupid? The fine line of risk. Considering the players injury and the team's state of transition Dalglish must have known there was a good chance that the results were not going to be immediate when it came to Carroll. I think there's been a great deal of faith placed in the players mentality.

 

We haven't seen enough of Gerrard going forward this season, we've seen too much of Adam in a central position, Henderson and Downing have been shackled with new responsibilities, Dirk Kuyt has only 2 goals in the league this season. All that has an inevitable impact on Carroll's performance. He scores a late winner against Blackburn then misses a sitter against Everton before going on to win the game for us. That mental strength has been the greatest encouragement, so far.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Canny Kenny or incredibly stupid? The fine line of risk. Considering the players injury and the team's state of transition Dalglish must have known there was a good chance that the results were not going to be immediate when it came to Carroll. I think there's been a great deal of faith placed in the players mentality.

 

We haven't seen enough of Gerrard going forward this season, we've seen too much of Adam in a central position, Henderson and Downing have been shackled with new responsibilities, Dirk Kuyt has only 2 goals in the league this season. All that has an inevitable impact on Carroll's performance. He scores a late winner against Blackburn then misses a sitter against Everton before going on to win the game for us. That mental strength has been the greatest encouragement, so far.

 

Fair fucks for making a solid post with reasoning. I totally agree that our attacking hasn't been anywhere near good enough, even if we have, at times, played fairly decent, creative football. The blunt edge has been worrying.

[Liquid football]

My take on Carroll so far is that if he continues to improve he will be good enough for Liverpool. Not necessarily our best striker but good enough for Liverpool which is all we need him to be. The problem he has is the obsession with his fee.

[Ranxerox]

I think he really has to work his balls off every game cos he isn't the smartest in his movement and the positions he takes up on the pitch.

 

FFS he's 23. Movement and position as well as timing his jumps etc is the stuff that comes with experience. Honestly sometimes people talk about him as if he is suppossed to be at his peak now.

 

As with a lot of things the club mismanaged the PR around his transfer fee. He didn't negotiate the deal yet he's recv'd scant protection from the club in this regard until very recently.

 

Also as has been mentioned the lack of a decent experienced striker to come off the bench or rotate for him has meant he has had to soak up a lot of pressure for the lack of goals, a lot for any 23 year old to deal with.

 

I've been a big critic of him too, and no doubt a lot of it was too harsh, no one can question his recent efforts. I think he's starting to come good.

[Redshadow]

Re' The thread title? Well don't know What else Big Andy does but right now? He's developing an interesting habit of sinking bitters when thirsty for a goal or two. Long may it continue........

 

NB Look forward to the Cup Final not just for obvious reasons but also? As it will pit the player I regard as prob' the closest thing other than Llorente to a Young Didier Drogba against the original. I wonder if since we signed him? The reason we've done well against Chelsea? Is because they just Can't handle their own for want of a better word 'Power' game reflected Back on them? Carroll is central to that for us right now IMO when he plays & further? We nearly Always win when he starts & stays on - Never mind when he scores - Don't think we've lost yet when he does that. So yes - Will be interesting on May 5th to see if the Old Drogba or the 'New' one comes out on top.

 

NBB One thing further? A thank you to the Newcastle idiots for booing him enough that he finally realised he's now of Mersey - Not Tyneside - Since that awful afternoon at the Geordies Dump? He's woken up, realised we are his clan/team etc now & decided to Prove himself for us - The Kraken as it were? Has awoken & how & best of all? At his age? He'll only get better from here on in. Looking forward to it & then some as if anyone deserves to succeed with us? He does & he Will - Mark my words..............................

[Spy Bee]

Is Número Veinticinco a plant to make people want to upgrade to the MF?

[KevieG]

He may or may not work out. The fee isn't his fault. He seems to have gotten his head down and is working hard. He has found some form in the last 3 months and has just hit two winners in a row.

 

Why do people want him to fail again? At the very least wouldn't you want him to do well so that we could recoup some money?

 

I'm made up for him getting the winner in the semi-final. No matter how thick skinned you are the amount of grief he has taken would take its toll on anybody. Well done big man.

[Guest ShoePiss]

Re' The thread title? Well don't know What else Big Andy does but right now? He's developing an interesting habit of sinking bitters when thirsty for a goal or two. Long may it continue........

 

NB Look forward to the Cup Final not just for obvious reasons but also? As it will pit the player I regard as prob' the closest thing other than Llorente to a Young Didier Drogba against the original. I wonder if since we signed him? The reason we've done well against Chelsea? Is because they just Can't handle their own for want of a better word 'Power' game reflected Back on them? Carroll is central to that for us right now IMO when he plays & further? We nearly Always win when he starts & stays on - Never mind when he scores - Don't think we've lost yet when he does that. So yes - Will be interesting on May 5th to see if the Old Drogba or the 'New' one comes out on top.

 

NBB One thing further? A thank you to the Newcastle idiots for booing him enough that he finally realised he's now of Mersey - Not Tyneside - Since that awful afternoon at the Geordies Dump? He's woken up, realised we are his clan/team etc now & decided to Prove himself for us - The Kraken as it were? Has awoken & how & best of all? At his age? He'll only get better from here on in. Looking forward to it & then some as if anyone deserves to succeed with us? He does & he Will - Mark my words..............................

 

You're one of the knobheads that was abusing that arsenal tit on twitter aren't you?

[fowler9]

My take on Carroll so far is that if he continues to improve he will be good enough for Liverpool. Not necessarily our best striker but good enough for Liverpool which is all we need him to be. The problem he has is the obsession with his fee.

 

if he becomes good enough to play for us and the rest of the team start performing and we're doing well the fee thing will go away

 

De Gea, Carrick, Anderson, Berbatov etc all cost way more than they should but because they win things no-ones bothered

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Is Número Veinticinco a plant to make people want to upgrade to the MF?

 

I wish you'd fuck off there, Spy!

[Spy Bee]

I wish you'd fuck off there, Spy!

 

I'm going to, and I'm going to suggest Dave puts you on commission!

[PaulMcC]

No one wants him to fail and 23 isn't exactly young.

 

What age was Torres when he came here?

[Jairzinho]

No one wants him to fail and 23 isn't exactly young.

 

What age was Torres when he came here?

 

23, I think. Although obviously he'd played at a decent level since the age of 17, captain by the age of 19.

[CharlieP]

There is no 'peak age' for footballers. It's all a load of mythical, cliched bullshit.

 

The injuries they suffer largely dictate a players performance throughout his career.

[Tyler Durden]

I hope he does turn a corner and start performing/scoring, not only because if he doesn't it will be terrible business but it can only help us. I just wish he'd sort his moaning out, it must do his teammates heads in the way he carries on not only to them but at the refs aswel

[BringbackBiscan]

I hope he does turn a corner and start performing/scoring, not only because if he doesn't it will be terrible business but it can only help us. I just wish he'd sort his moaning out, it must do his teammates heads in the way he carries on not only to them but at the refs aswel

 

They're well used to it with Suarez.

[piscinin]

They're well used to it with Suarez.

 

And Agger and Bellamy and Carragher . . .

[Guest TK-421]

And Downing. Never shuts up, arrogant gobshite.

[Iceman]

Seems like every time I come on here, NV is being patronizing and telling people to fuck off.

 

Why is that?

[Saintslfc13]

No one wants him to fail and 23 isn't exactly young.

 

What age was Torres when he came here?

 

23 is fairly young, especially for a player who doesn't really rely on athleticism as much as he does size. If he was pacy already then we'd need him to be where Torres was when he came. As it is Andy is not a fast player. If he can develop his insticts, movement (in terms of positioning and timing of runs rather than actual pace), and become quicker (short bursts of pace ie - a quick first and second step to create space for a shot, agility - turns, change of direction) and perhaps add a bit of guile to his game. then he can succeed for a longer time than a player who is mainly based on being able to run onto to well placed passes.

 

Let's face it, without lots of hard work with a fitness coach and a speed coach Andy is never going to be outrunning defenders over a long length of the pitch especially with the ball at his feet, but he could develop into a player that can use his long stride to his advantage along with a quick burst of energy to momentarily sprint past a defender and either win a header, get his foot on a low cross, or hopefully do it with the ball and have a shot on goal.

 

In fact from what I've seen of him, his game has the ability to develop him into a bigger version of Suarez albeit without the dribbling ability but "better" in the air do to his size (he's already a good target for crosses when in the right positions). I'd say he could even emulate Suarez ability to shape his shots (curl the ball) as that aspect is all technique really but we'd only ever see that in the premiership if he developed the other aspects of his game that allow him to create space and subsequently time to be able to do that.

 

In any case, the time for him to move on these things is now rather than later so if he hopes to reach his potential he needs to get to work.

[Saintslfc13]

There is no 'peak age' for footballers. It's all a load of mythical, cliched bullshit.

 

The injuries they suffer largely dictate a players performance throughout his career.

 

The peak athletic years for any healthy man are from about 26-28 to 32-33. Obviously like you said, injuries as well as overall health (do they drink more than they should? do they smoke? If so, what are they smoking and how long have they been smoking? Are they eating right?) can bring the numbers either up or down as well as the amount of work they put in and how much training every individuals body can handle (which is influence by things like drinking, smoking, fitness, eating habits and genetics).

 

The right lifestyle, luck in terms of injury, and a good training regimen can elongate those "peak years". So in a sense we agree, it's not nailed on, but it's not exactly mythical either.