can someone honestly explain the signing of Aquilani?

[Guest Ulysses Everett McGill]

Generally, yes, but then i'd counter that by saying if you're spending around £15M/£20M on a player who has had a terrible history of injuries, that's potentially a bigger risk.

 

Just because we lost Alonso didn't automatically mean that we had to splash a huge sum of money on his replacement. The key is not the price tag, but the quality of the player.

 

Say Rafa had bought that Banega fella in the summer and he was now ruling the midfield; everyone would be happy.

 

Absolutely no guarantee that would have worked out

 

And to be honest, I think, in time, Aquilani will prove to be a fantastic signing

[Brownie]

Absolutely no guarantee that would have worked out

 

And to be honest, I think, in time, Aquilani will prove to be a fantastic signing

 

If you read the sentence again, it's crystal clear that I wasn't suggesting there would be any guarantee of it happening. The words, 'had' and 'would', tend to give it away a bit.

 

It's just a hypothetical point to substantiate the fact that there may be players out there who could be signed for 'decent' prices and fill the void.

 

I reckon Aquilani has got loads of ability and wouldn't be surprised if he did prove to be a great player for us, but that's not what is being debated here.

[goatboy59]

I reckon Aquilani has got loads of ability and wouldn't be surprised if he did prove to be a great player for us, but that's not what is being debated here.

Not saying you're lying mate, but I do find that other people who are critical tend to say things like that because they want to be seen as fair and not 'bashers'.

 

I question if he has got "loads" of ability and would be VERY surprised if he turned out to be a "great" player for us.

[Dougie Do'ins]

Absolutely no guarantee that would have worked out

 

And to be honest, I think, in time, Aquilani will prove to be a fantastic signing

We haven't really got time to spare have we. Your right there is no guarantee that Benaga would have worked out. That's a risk we take with every player we sign. But I the issue most people have with the signing of Aquilani is the gamble Rafa took on his fitness before we even had the chance to gamble whether he'll fit in with the team.

 

I don't care if Rafa was let down by the medical experts. He just shouldn't have put such a big decision in their hands in the first place. I'd have had concerns if he was bought as just a squad player, never mind a Alonso's replacement. We shouldn't have to wait the best part of a year before we can begin to assess if a player will fit into our playing system because of injury problems sustained at his previous club.

[Cardie]

Banega has been at Valencia since January 08 and it's taken him until this season to start showing his true form.

[The Dude Abides]

Banega has been at Valencia since January 08 and it's taken him until this season to start showing his true form.

 

There's that. But also, the style of player Rafa went after to replace Xabi with. Aquilani totally contradicts everything Rafa is about as a coach. Pass and move, moving to create space, moving to create angles for passes. Aquilani if he's ever to become a great player for us will have to be freed up to play the way he wants, to go where he wants to on the pitch, and for his team-mates to move to receive passes from him. Not standing inside our own half in a zone, receiving and giving the ball to the defence. That won't do. So unless there's a huge shift in Rafa's tactics, which wont happen, i'm struggling to see how Aquilani can be a successful signing.

 

There's options like. But they'd involve tinkering with Gerrard's role in the side, and Rafa doesn't seem to even want to try that.

 

-------Masch

Aquilani----Gerrard

 

Tell me that doesn't look like the foundation of a fucking devastating mid-field?

 

It's as though Rafa signed these attacking players(Johnson, Aquilani) and magically expected them to magically click without thinking he might have to change a few things to make it work. I'm not suggesting that's the case as he knows far more than i ever fucking will. But still. Rafa and logic don't always go hand in hand.

[Guest PurpleNose]

 

I question if he has got "loads" of ability and would be VERY surprised if he turned out to be a "great" player for us.

 

I don't question his ability. He looked brilliant for Roma, and Italy, albeit sporadically due to injuries. He is a really good footballer. I don't think that is in much doubt.

 

I question whether he'll be a great player for us because of the injuries, his ability to adapt to English football, and how he is utilised by our manager.

 

I want to know what the manager's plan is.

[Brownie]

Banega has been at Valencia since January 08 and it's taken him until this season to start showing his true form.

 

Moyes wanted to sign him, so does that mean that he's a genius in the transfer market? Obviously, not.

 

For the second time, i'm not criticising Rafa for not signign Banega. I've never even seen him play.

 

I was just making the point that there are always lots of options for you to take when you're bringing players in. So far, the option Rafa took has been an unmitigated disaster in the context of this season and that always will be the case.

 

I don't see the problem with that.

 

I'd counter that by saying in the past he's made other decisions which have done nothing but add value to the team and therefore he deserves nothing but credit for those (which i'll have said at the time).

 

Unfortunately, those great decisions seem to be happening less frequently.

[Brownie]

Not saying you're lying mate, but I do find that other people who are critical tend to say things like that because they want to be seen as fair and not 'bashers'.

 

I question if he has got "loads" of ability and would be VERY surprised if he turned out to be a "great" player for us.

 

No, I can see what you're saying mate and I certainly won't take it in any negative way. In all honesty i'm just clinging to the cameo he gave against Arsenal in his first game.

 

He was a breath of fresh air, pinging excellent passes out wide, getting forward having shots (the overhead kick was brilliant) etc.

 

That to me, hopefully, is the real Aquilani. I think Rafa's use of him, or lack thereof, has affected his confidence so much that when he is playing now, he's trying too hard to justify the hype because there's been lots of talk about him not being used.

 

All eyes are on him and I don't think Rafa has helped in that sense.

[Paul]

Not saying you're lying mate, but I do find that other people who are critical tend to say things like that because they want to be seen as fair and not 'bashers'.

 

I question if he has got "loads" of ability and would be VERY surprised if he turned out to be a "great" player for us.

 

My view on him is that it's just too soon to tell. My instinct is that he'll never cut it here simply because he's been so broken for so long. Furthermore, the few times he's played for us, the game has largely passed him by, he's given the ball away and looked totally unsuited to the aggression and pace of English football.

 

However, my head says that it's entirely possible that his confidence needs rebuilding after coming into a struggling side after so long out with such huge pressure on him to have an instant impact. So, if his body gets fully sorted and he can get his head right to match, then he could very well be the £20m player Rafa apparently saw. I suspect not (not least because I have no faith in Rafa's judgement of a player in the transfer market any more), but it's definitely conceivable and so I stick to the view that he needs time.

 

None of that changes the fact that his signing was a resounding failure for us last summer, though.

[Code]

Aqualini is a very poor signing but thinking we could be serious challengers for the title on our budget is like expecting the weather in February in the UK to be hot enough to sunbathe; both require child-like hope in the face of all evidence as to what is actually possible.

 

Seriously Catch please stop now.

 

If we had not sold Alonso and let Hyypia go we would probably be on top now.

[Liverpool lad]

10/10 for persistence, Catch. I read that book you recommended, I really enjoyed it

[Code]

I love the fact that Xabi is now regarded as a brilliantly consistent player, after just one brilliant season.

 

When Alonso was at his worst he was still way ahead of those clogging up our midfield now when they are at their best.

[andrew78]

Should of replaced alonso with a like for like,thats how we play and thats why we were good because the team was set up to play that way,benitez has dropped another bollock ,and a 20 mill bollock

[coachpotato]

As I've said before, I don't expect Rafa to be personally brilliant in all aspects of football management, but he should be able to hire the right people to fill in the gaps in his own armoury and then hold them to account. With Paco and Pako, there seemed to be a good balance within the management team: Rafa's tactical brilliance, Paco's eye for a player and Pako's ability to keep the squad happy. Now it seems like there's no balance at all; just Rafa, warts and all.

 

Is correct.

[Carra_is_legend]

My view on him is that it's just too soon to tell. My instinct is that he'll never cut it here simply because he's been so broken for so long. Furthermore, the few times he's played for us, the game has largely passed him by, he's given the ball away and looked totally unsuited to the aggression and pace of English football.

 

However, my head says that it's entirely possible that his confidence needs rebuilding after coming into a struggling side after so long out with such huge pressure on him to have an instant impact. So, if his body gets fully sorted and he can get his head right to match, then he could very well be the £20m player Rafa apparently saw. I suspect not (not least because I have no faith in Rafa's judgement of a player in the transfer market any more), but it's definitely conceivable and so I stick to the view that he needs time.

 

None of that changes the fact that his signing was a resounding failure for us last summer, though.

 

I said a couple of months ago that it was too soon to tell. I said I will give him at least until end of the season before I make any sort of judgement on him.

 

However, I have to say, from what I have seen so far, there is not much to suggest he will be a top player for us. And Rafa seems to be determined to destroy whatever confidence he might have.

 

I'm not even sure if Rafa knows how to use him.

[redrosetints]

Knowing money is tight though RR wouldn't it be sensible to sign a player who would be fit from the off or at least during his playing career has showed glimpses of being able to string more then 3 games together.

 

There is now way Rafa could have legistated for all the injuries we have had and having a near full strength squad wold have allowed us to gently bring Aquilani in but this has not been the case.

 

Now the lad is fit he needs games and if he isn't in the first team then he should be with the ressies to get his match sharpness back.

 

Yeah, you have a point but Im sure Rafa got the best player he could for the money he had (or at least thought he was!), but yeah given his record, it was always going to be a push. However, the point is that most of our peers dont have to worry in this way, therefore we are fighting with one hand behind our backs ? Hargreaves has been out for ages, yet United still have 3 other 18m midfielders, to compliment Scholes, Giggs and Fletcher. Chelsea bought Zhirkov this season for 18m, he was injured and how many times has he played, 8 all year ? Yet they have the squad to cope, Essien , Malouda, Mikel, Lampard, Cole, Deco and I dare say a few more, who could fill in for him and each cost more than 10m. Citeh havent really invested in the midfield yet, but up front they have Bellers, Benjani, Santa Cruz, Robinhio, Tevez and Adebayor, thats what 110m of purchases right there, more than Rafas entire net budget for his 6 seasons. Robinhio failed but they still have good strikers to compensate which cover the deficiencies of the Robinhio purchase.

 

Unfortunatley we dont have that and thats not the manager or players fault, its down to the owners. Even Spurs have a more costly strikeforce and midfield.

 

While you cannot argue that Aquilani has been anything other than a disappointing signing so far and may be a poor one overall, you cannot ignore that our peers operate on a difference financial level and while moneys not everything, if you sign 5 20m players and one fails but the others shine, you're fine. If you can only afford one 20m player and he fails, well, your fucked !

 

 

The difference between the two players is' date=' one didn't arrive here with his own first aid kit.[/quote']

 

THats true and the more you read about Aquilanis injuries, the more of a punt it was. However, without wishing to start a new 'parry signing' is it not the case that we were owed money on the Riise deal and therefore, this had benefits, bit like the Johnson deal ? ie we didnt have to pay out so much. While its still all money that needs to be accounted for, we only had a balance of 8m to pay on Johnson and 15m on Aquilani, so our spend this summer was only 23m. Therefore, it wasnt a case of us spending 40m this summer and say, we could have got Villa and promoted Kelly at RB. WeE had 23m and we needed a new RB and CM, who could we seriously have pursued for that money ? I assume Rafa thought the two we got were the best options.

 

But yeah, lets hope Aquilani gets fit and soon.

[redrosetints]

This is it. I can't believe people are still pointing to Veron, Shevchenko, Robinho, blah blah blah.

 

How many of them were fucking injured when the clubs signed him? In fact, how many "injured" players has bacon face or Wenger signed?

 

Not having enough money doesn't fucking mean we have to go and spunk £20m on an injured fucking player.

 

Zhirkov, 18m for Chelsea, played 8 games this season.

[redrosetints]

Lucas is awful. What is it that he does anyway? He's not a defensive midfielder (or shouldn't be anyway, Mascherano should be), he's most definitely not an attacking player (0 goals and 1 assist in 30-odd games this season - scored a peach of an own goal against Villa though, which ruined our title hopes for another year). So what the fuck is he?

 

Prior to his arrival, I was told by the Rafa-lovers that we were signing a box-to-box midfielder. I wonder what they were smoking.

 

Lucas isnt the player we hoped, no doubt, but I dont think he's as bad as people make out, perhaps not the answer, but when Cattermole is 7m and older, it puts it into perspective.

[zigackly]

Zhirkov, 18m for Chelsea, played 8 games this season.

 

I don't get your point there. Chelsea can afford as many mistakes as they want.

[redrosetints]

We haven't really got time to spare have we. Your right there is no guarantee that Benaga would have worked out. That's a risk we take with every player we sign. But I the issue most people have with the signing of Aquilani is the gamble Rafa took on his fitness before we even had the chance to gamble whether he'll fit in with the team.

 

I don't care if Rafa was let down by the medical experts. He just shouldn't have put such a big decision in their hands in the first place. I'd have had concerns if he was bought as just a squad player' date=' never mind a Alonso's replacement. We shouldn't have to wait the best part of a year before we can begin to assess if a player will fit into our playing system because of injury problems sustained at his previous club.[/quote']

 

While all that is true, is it not also worth pointing out (and I keep forgetting too) that circumstance has been against us. If we'd come into this season and simply been able to plug Aquilani in for Xabi, great, but events have got ahead of us. Firstly Torres and the Spaniards came back from teh confederation cup late and were clearly lacking fitness in the opening games, then we were hit by injruies everywhere.

 

Last year we were stretched with Agger, Torres and aGerrard out for long periods, this season we've lost Xabi and the 3 above AND Johnson, Benayoun etc

[Carra_is_legend]

Zhirkov, 18m for Chelsea, played 8 games this season.

 

And? Your point is?

 

Are you saying because other clubs waste money, it is ok for us too?

 

Or are you saying just because Zhirkov played only 8 games, we should forgive Rafa for spunking £20m on an injured player?

[Carra_is_legend]

While all that is true, is it not also worth pointing out (and I keep forgetting too) that circumstance has been against us. If we'd come into this season and simply been able to plug Aquilani in for Xabi, great, but events have got ahead of us. Firstly Torres and the Spaniards came back from teh confederation cup late and were clearly lacking fitness in the opening games, then we were hit by injruies everywhere.

 

Don't tell me Rafa didn't know about the Confiderations cup before he decided to spend £20m on someone INJURED!

[Code]

Zhirkov was not brought in to replace anyone either and certainly not Chelsea`s most important player, he was an addition to an already great squad.

 

Just thought I should mention it since it probably could put things in context.

[derykw]

While all that is true, is it not also worth pointing out (and I keep forgetting too) that circumstance has been against us. If we'd come into this season and simply been able to plug Aquilani in for Xabi, great, but events have got ahead of us. Firstly Torres and the Spaniards came back from teh confederation cup late and were clearly lacking fitness in the opening games, then we were hit by injruies everywhere.

 

Last year we were stretched with Agger, Torres and aGerrard out for long periods, this season we've lost Xabi and the 3 above AND Johnson, Benayoun etc

 

Excuses, excuses.

 

Every team has injuries. Man Utd have had their defence decimated at times, Arsenal sold and didnt replace Adebayor and lost V.Persie for months and now Eduardo`s injured. Chelsea didn`t strengthen to much from last season and yet their seasons are all pissing over ours.

 

It`s just not possible to justify signing Aquilani however much you try.

 

A complete fuck up.