can someone honestly explain the signing of Aquilani?

[Paul]

It's not really 'for the future' though, it's just that you know he's going to miss a big chunk of this season. My point about if it were David Villa stands. The fact that you couldn't play him for half a season wouldn't make it a bad buy, you'd accept that you have to bite the bullet on that to get a quality player. Whether Rafa is right or not he clearly thinks that Aquilani is going to be a very good player, that's why he spent £15m on him (I think it was AWS that posted the actual figures). If he does think that then he'd be doing Liverpool a disservice by thinking only of the short term and not buying him. I'd be more annoyed if he'd have spent £20m on someone like Arshavin who's a lot older and would clearly be a buy concentrating on the short term. Now we're skint if we're spending big money they have to be young to give us value over the years.

 

Whether Aquilani is the man, I don't know. What I will say though is that if you are going to get a long-term replacement for Alonso you're really going to have to pull a rabbit out of the hat to get one of the right standard for under £15m.

 

Hang on a minute Stu. You're seriously saying that knowing what you know now you'd take Aquilani over Arshavin? I can't get my head round that mate. Even allowing for the need for long term financial prudence, you can't ignore the very real financial crisis we'll be in if we miss out on the CL gravy train in the short term, surely? I'd take Arshavin over Aquilani every time. He's the nearest thing I've seen to a £15m bargain and we'd be a side transformed with him in our ranks.

 

As for your second point, maybe the manager needs to work harder at keeping the gems he has got sweet then.

[Iantn]

Not for one minute suggesting that Aquilani was the back up idea here or anything of that nature but how long after it was basically confirmed that Tevez was going to City did we start looking at this lad?

 

Reason I'm asking is that at the time this was the extra player that Rafa wanted and I wonder if we'd have gotten him whether the money would have then been there for Aquilani, kinda knock on effect.

 

Not that it really matters too much, just a thinking on it.

[Hermes]

Aqualini is a very poor signing but thinking we could be serious challengers for the title on our budget.........

 

Excuse me sir, I think you dropped something.

 

 

[Stu Monty]

Hang on a minute Stu. You're seriously saying that knowing what you know now you'd take Aquilani over Arshavin? I can't get my head round that mate. Even allowing for the need for long term financial prudence, you can't ignore the very real financial crisis we'll be in if we miss out on the CL gravy train in the short term, surely? I'd take Arshavin over Aquilani every time. He's the nearest thing I've seen to a £15m bargain and we'd be a side transformed with him in our ranks.

 

As for your second point, maybe the manager needs to work harder at keeping the gems he has got sweet then.

 

Maybe not knowing that Arshavin has settled reasonably well, maybe. But if you think that a club that has no money to spend should be buying 30 year old players for big money and big wages then I'd have to say you've got it wrong. I don't think we'll miss out on the CL this season but I wouldn't be throwing money at it to make sure we do. From now on, if we splash out that big it'll have to be on a player we'll get years out of.

 

Arshavin's not a midfielder either, so if he's set on keeping Gerrard where he is then Arshavin isn't an option anyway, as an aside.

[Paul]

Maybe not knowing that Arshavin has settled reasonably well, maybe. But if you think that a club that has no money to spend should be buying 30 year old players for big money and big wages then I'd have to say you've got it wrong. I don't think we'll miss out on the CL this season but I wouldn't be throwing money at it to make sure we do. From now on, if we splash out that big it'll have to be on a player we'll get years out of.

 

Arshavin's not a midfielder either, so if he's set on keeping Gerrard where he is then Arshavin isn't an option anyway, as an aside.

 

If we don't get Torres back very soon, I think we're fucked; ditto if we lose to City, Torres or not. On Arshavin's age, I tend to agree. However, in this case, it's no contest for me.

 

under rafa he would be a totally different player Paul, see my post in Rafa to Juve last page.

 

I suspect you're right Al.

[Hermes]

Mr Monty, believe me when I say the wages Maxi is on are beyond belief, and its serious money for the whole deal.

 

That must improve our title chances then.

[coop]

When we talk about money, isnt that the issue though Coop ?

 

We havent pot loads so whoever we sign is under the microscope, are they or arent they the real deal ? All signings are a risk and all managers get things wrong. Veron (Utd), Schevchenko (Chelsea), Reyes (Arse)and Robiniho (citeh) spring to mind. Yet teams with more money, are able to continue buying expensive players, see them fail, move them on and just buy more. Thats the real issue here.

 

We have Aquilani and Masch, United have Nani, Carrick, Hargreaves and Andersen. We have Skrtel and Agger, Citeh have Toure, Lescott and Kompany. In Chelseas win over Arsenal last week, their cheapest player was Cech at 8m after that the rest all cost more than 10m bar Terry and Cole and that includes Ivanovich FFS, indeed 5 of their bench cost more than 10m. Meanwhile we turn up at the Emirates with 9 of the 1st team costing a total of 28m and 9 of the 17 overall either free or 1.5m signings.

 

Knowing money is tight though RR wouldn't it be sensible to sign a player who would be fit from the off or at least during his playing career has showed glimpses of being able to string more then 3 games together.

 

There is now way Rafa could have legistated for all the injuries we have had and having a near full strength squad wold have allowed us to gently bring Aquilani in but this has not been the case.

 

Now the lad is fit he needs games and if he isn't in the first team then he should be with the ressies to get his match sharpness back.

[Dougie Do'ins]

Funny innit, I seem to remeber a certain spainsh pass master being off form and lacking in confidence going through some injury issues 'let him get fit and get a run of games, you'll see the true Xabi then'. He did get fit, he did play, he did get a run of games, he did get his form and confidence back and he was awesome.

 

Now its too early to tell if Aquilani is any good, but on the same premise that we give Xabi time, to allow his form and confidence to build dont you think its fair to afford Aquilani the same tiem and patience ? It's a little early to write Aquilani off after so few games (4 starts ?) and to say he's the wortst purchase in our history ?

 

Hystrerical media nonsense mate.

The difference between the two players is, one didn't arrive here with his own first aid kit.

[Carra_is_legend]

Knowing money is tight though RR wouldn't it be sensible to sign a player who would be fit from the off or at least during his playing career has showed glimpses of being able to string more then 3 games together.

 

There is now way Rafa could have legistated for all the injuries we have had and having a near full strength squad wold have allowed us to gently bring Aquilani in but this has not been the case.

 

Now the lad is fit he needs games and if he isn't in the first team then he should be with the ressies to get his match sharpness back.

 

This is it. I can't believe people are still pointing to Veron, Shevchenko, Robinho, blah blah blah.

 

How many of them were fucking injured when the clubs signed him? In fact, how many "injured" players has bacon face or Wenger signed?

 

Not having enough money doesn't fucking mean we have to go and spunk £20m on an injured fucking player.

[Lucky Pierre]

I love the fact that Xabi is now regarded as a brilliantly consistent player, after just one brilliant season.

[Carra_is_legend]

I love the fact that Xabi is now regarded as a brilliantly consistent player, after just one brilliant season.

 

and what would we give, right now, for just 3 months of absolutely brilliant football from Aquilani?

[Lucky Pierre]

and what would we give, right now, for just 3 months of absolutely brilliant football from Aquilani?

To be honest, 3 games would do! But Xabi has form for being 'awful' after a brilliant season.

[OnizukaEikichi]

To be honest, 3 games would do! But Xabi has form for being 'awful' after a brilliant season.

 

I dont remember him being awful actually, just not outstanding , just like Lucas (not bashing him).

[Sangria]

I love the fact that Xabi is now regarded as a brilliantly consistent player, after just one brilliant season.

 

No he never was but his first and last were superb. The in between bits were a bit in and out, due to injuries etc.

I think he had two brilliant seasons and was a gentleman on and off the park, thus deserved our respect.

 

As for explaining the signing of Aquilani I have not got a clue. Apart from what a lot of posters have said, is put him in Gerrards position and put Gerrard back into centre midfield.

 

Who knows eh.

[JMARKH]

I'm at a loss how you can sign anyone to be second choice behind a Lucas and Mascherano axis, especially at 20 million. Then again I'm at a loss how you can sign a forward for 20 million then sell him a few months later. I wonder who we will waste money on next.

[zigackly]

To be honest, 3 games would do! But Xabi has form for being 'awful' after a brilliant season.

 

He was never awful, that's massively revisionist.

[Unrighteous]

To be honest, 3 games would do! But Xabi has form for being 'awful' after a brilliant season.

 

 

Heh... 3 games in a row? It'll never happen.

[Carra_is_legend]

How I wish we had that "awful" Xabi now!

 

Just to see a few good decent forward passes coming out of midfield.

[Little Sammy]

I dont remember him being awful actually, just not outstanding , just like Lucas (not bashing him).

 

Lucas is awful. What is it that he does anyway? He's not a defensive midfielder (or shouldn't be anyway, Mascherano should be), he's most definitely not an attacking player (0 goals and 1 assist in 30-odd games this season - scored a peach of an own goal against Villa though, which ruined our title hopes for another year). So what the fuck is he?

 

Prior to his arrival, I was told by the Rafa-lovers that we were signing a box-to-box midfielder. I wonder what they were smoking.

[Iantn]

Lucas is awful. What is it that he does anyway? He's not a defensive midfielder (or shouldn't be anyway, Mascherano should be), he's most definitely not an attacking player (0 goals and 1 assist in 30-odd games this season - scored a peach of an own goal against Villa though, which ruined our title hopes for another year). So what the fuck is he?

 

Prior to his arrival, I was told by the Rafa-lovers that we were signing a box-to-box midfielder. I wonder what they were smoking.

 

Given his record in Brazil and given his age he was a box-to-box midfielder over there. He doesn't have the explosive pace needed to do that job in this league though.

 

What he is is a solid, young and improving player who gives his all on the pitch. Whether he ends up being good enough to be a part of a title winning squad or team remains to be seen but whilst he's improving and giving his all getting behind the lad and not giving him some of the utter disgraceful shite he gets branded with shouldn't be a hard thing to do.

 

But then again he can't play most of his 60yard passes in the right area so he must be shite eh!

[Brownie]

It's not really 'for the future' though, it's just that you know he's going to miss a big chunk of this season. My point about if it were David Villa stands. The fact that you couldn't play him for half a season wouldn't make it a bad buy, you'd accept that you have to bite the bullet on that to get a quality player. Whether Rafa is right or not he clearly thinks that Aquilani is going to be a very good player, that's why he spent £15m on him (I think it was AWS that posted the actual figures). If he does think that then he'd be doing Liverpool a disservice by thinking only of the short term and not buying him. I'd be more annoyed if he'd have spent £20m on someone like Arshavin who's a lot older and would clearly be a buy concentrating on the short term. Now we're skint if we're spending big money they have to be young to give us value over the years.

 

Whether Aquilani is the man, I don't know. What I will say though is that if you are going to get a long-term replacement for Alonso you're really going to have to pull a rabbit out of the hat to get one of the right standard for under £15m.

 

Sorry for the late reply, i've not been on here much lately.

 

I know what you're saying but I also think it's a bit contradictory. Signing Aquilani was 'for the future'; i've heard Rafa say it on numerous occasions. That to me doesn't tie in with the, 'we don't have much money so what we do have, we have to use well' theory.

 

If you know you've sold £40M worth of players and you then have £40M to spend on players, then you don't necessarily spend the lot on two direct replacements. That's not to say he was wrong to do so because i'm sure there would be examples where doing just that would work; unfortunately, added to other factors this season, this approach clearly hasn't worked.

 

I think it's fair to question the signing, considering that Aquilani has contributed absolutely nothing to the season and we're struggling so badly overall.

 

As with a lot of Rafa's decisions, the subsequent usage of Aquilani just hasn't been logical to me, either.

 

As for the claim that you couldn't possibly expect to sign a player of Alonso's ilk for anything other than £15/£20M, you have to remember that Alonso cost £10.5M in the first place.

[Red-Ed]

I wonder what Aquilani thinks of it all. It seems to me that Rafa has bene reluctant to play him in any games, especially away from home, where there might be a physical approach from the opposition. Unfortunately this is not Italy or Spain so every game will have a physical edge. The only way we will see the best of him is if he is played in one position and played game after game. At the moment that has not happened.

 

The other question is - what is his best position? In the hole or centre mid? If it's either of those then one of his favourites is going to have to be dropped - Kuyt or Lucas. If he plays in the hole then Gerrard either goes CM or RM. If he plays CM then one of Lucas or Masch will have to go, you'd imagine that would be Lucas.

 

The entire scenario is a little baffling and there are echo's of the Keane situation for me. Maybe he will be back in Italy next season, if so it's a shocking signing.

 

I understand the need to protect him and ease him in but the use of him so far doesn't reflect that, add to that the fact he's missed a few games with knocks or illness doesn't fill you with confidence.

 

I hope he makes it as there have been moments of class and you can see that he does have vision and wants to play quick one touch football that Gerrard, Torres etc...will appreciate.

 

For me he needs to start in Europe, that sort of game should be tailor made for him and will help his confidence which looked a touch low to me last outing.

 

Some of the criticism he has been getting though is very unfair. He needs a chance, the blame for his failure will lie squarely at rafa's door i'm afraid. Not like babel.

[Stu Monty]

Sorry for the late reply, i've not been on here much lately.

 

I know what you're saying but I also think it's a bit contradictory. Signing Aquilani was 'for the future'; i've heard Rafa say it on numerous occasions. That to me doesn't tie in with the, 'we don't have much money so what we do have, we have to use well' theory.

 

If you know you've sold £40M worth of players and you then have £40M to spend on players, then you don't necessarily spend the lot on two direct replacements. That's not to say he was wrong to do so because i'm sure there would be examples where doing just that would work; unfortunately, added to other factors this season, this approach clearly hasn't worked.

 

I think it's fair to question the signing, considering that Aquilani has contributed absolutely nothing to the season and we're struggling so badly overall.

 

As with a lot of Rafa's decisions, the subsequent usage of Aquilani just hasn't been logical to me, either.

 

As for the claim that you couldn't possibly expect to sign a player of Alonso's ilk for anything other than £15/£20M, you have to remember that Alonso cost £10.5M in the first place.

 

I never said you couldn't possibly sign one for that, Brownie, I said that to buy one for under £15m you're going to have to pull a rabbit out of a hat, and I think that's a pretty fair comment. Catching Alonso before he was going to cost massive money is the sort of rabbit I'm talking about. Would you agree that, generally, if you're trying to get a top class player there's going to be a bit more risk of it not coming off if you're paying a bit less money? That the money is usually higher for players more likely to be good, and therefore less risky?

[Paul]

I never said you couldn't possibly sign one for that, Brownie, I said that to buy one for under £15m you're going to have to pull a rabbit out of a hat, and I think that's a pretty fair comment. Catching Alonso before he was going to cost massive money is the sort of rabbit I'm talking about. Would you agree that, generally, if you're trying to get a top class player there's going to be a bit more risk of it not coming off if you're paying a bit less money? That the money is usually higher for players more likely to be good, and therefore less risky?

 

All true. That's why I find it strange that Rafa persists with a man who wouldn't even know what a rabbit looked like, never mind be able actually pull one out of hat, to look after his scouting network. The bloke he replaced seemed to be pretty good at it, though - he was the one who got Xabi for £10.5m in the first place.

 

As I've said before, I don't expect Rafa to be personally brilliant in all aspects of football management, but he should be able to hire the right people to fill in the gaps in his own armoury and then hold them to account. With Paco and Pako, there seemed to be a good balance within the management team: Rafa's tactical brilliance, Paco's eye for a player and Pako's ability to keep the squad happy. Now it seems like there's no balance at all; just Rafa, warts and all.

[Brownie]

I never said you couldn't possibly sign one for that, Brownie, I said that to buy one for under £15m you're going to have to pull a rabbit out of a hat, and I think that's a pretty fair comment. Catching Alonso before he was going to cost massive money is the sort of rabbit I'm talking about. Would you agree that, generally, if you're trying to get a top class player there's going to be a bit more risk of it not coming off if you're paying a bit less money? That the money is usually higher for players more likely to be good, and therefore less risky?

 

Generally, yes, but then i'd counter that by saying if you're spending around £15M/£20M on a player who has had a terrible history of injuries, that's potentially a bigger risk.

 

Just because we lost Alonso didn't automatically mean that we had to splash a huge sum of money on his replacement. The key is not the price tag, but the quality of the player.

 

Say Rafa had bought that Banega fella in the summer and he was now ruling the midfield; everyone would be happy.