I hate Manchester United.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Superb post TB and although i'm a bit younger than yourself i can see exactly where you are coming from. Things have intensified over the years and a lot of that is to down to how people behave in general and not just footballing reasons.

[John McClane]

Good read there Torah Boy, cheers.

 

Regarding football hooligans, was there trouble in the streets/ terraces in the 60's or did this start late 70's? -Its just I have never read or watched any documentaries that cover trouble in the 60's? Using your wealth of experience, whats your view in how/ why trouble started to be a regular event?

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Good read there Torah Boy, cheers.

 

Regarding football hooligans, was there trouble in the streets/ terraces in the 60's or did this start late 70's? -Its just I have never read or watched any documentaries that cover trouble in the 60's? Using your wealth of experience, whats your view in how/ why trouble started to be a regular event?

 

If you read up on football hooliganism it has been around forever mate. Even when they were kicking a pigs bladder across some sodden piece of turf there were fights between rival villages. The modern game has been no different and hooliganism dates way back to the 1880's. In the 50's Liverpool and Everton fans wrecked a few trains whilst having a set too, fighting between rival fans has always been there, obviously the press started to cover this more in the 70's and 80's when hooliganism was at a level previously never seen. Where you have hardship and poverty you will always find fans venting their anger, emotions are high whilst following football and it brings out the worst in a lot of people, they follow like sheep in a gang mentality and things just escalate.

[xerxes]

Regarding football hooligans, was there trouble in the streets/ terraces in the 60's or did this start late 70's? -Its just I have never read or watched any documentaries that cover trouble in the 60's? Using your wealth of experience, whats your view in how/ why trouble started to be a regular event?

 

The animosity between the two cities can be traced back to the Manchester Ship Canal and the threat to Mersey side jobs, an event which was broadly contemporaneous with the creation of our two clubs. The ill-feeling has been there from the start between the two communities, if not the Clubs.

 

It is true that there were crowd disturbances at grounds pre the 1970’s, Millwall had their ground closed in 1920, 34,,47 and 50 before then, but the modern era of crowd trouble was post 1966. Crowds burgeoned in post World cup euphoria, youth culture was finding its feet with the Beatles and Rolling Stones, crucially rail travel was very cheap, and the Mods and Rockers battles on the countries beachfronts (as the shackles of National Service disappeared) all conspired to create a climate for football hooliganism to develop.

 

1967 was the year when British youth discovered that you didn’t need to wait for an Easter Bank Holiday to have a ruck, with Millwall’s (sound familiar) destruction of a train on the way back from Norwich and mass fighting at the key West Ham v Man U game the platform from which it all developed. As a support, our away travel was very patchy until the mid-70’s beyond Lancashire. Most of our support was local with people walking to the ground or travelling by bus. Furthermore it was very common for fans to watch Liverpool at home one week- and Everton the next. Season tickets, for those who could afford them were also often held at both clubs. So the Manchester v Liverpool rivalry was far greater than the Liverpool v Everton one. As hooliganism polarised support, so relations with Everton also deteriorated.

[SwindleThis]

The animosity between the two cities can be traced back to the Manchester Ship Canal and the threat to Mersey side jobs, an event which was broadly contemporaneous with the creation of our two clubs. The ill-feeling has been there from the start between the two communities, if not the Clubs.

 

I'm pretty sure that's been debunked as an urban myth.

 

 

Certainly my older relatives (now dead) thought it was a load of bollocks, not least because the canal never proved to be the success it was hoped it would, and even more so if you consider that the canal was only a substitute for the Mersey & Irwell Navigation Company work which was in the 18th century.

Certainly the canal allowed for bigger boats, but the level of industry and ships coming in from all corners of the globe was such that there was plenty to go around, not just for Liverpool and Manchester, but also for other big ports.

[Section_31]

That's an outstanding post by torahboy.

[joeyk]

Superb TB. Feel free to share similar stories if you have them !

[fowler9]

I'd despise Manchester United whoever I supported, I hated them before I even liked Football, they're just fucking cunts

[Bjornebye]

two biggest teams in the country in cities not far from each other that through the years have competed for jobs and industry.... it was never gonna be a pleasent rivalry but the fact that they are mancs and they act like they do magnifies it. and that isn't just mancunians but all utd supporters. wearing that badge must give off some fucking horrible curse. like the dodgy ring from mordor.

 

fucking vermin

[Gimmeesumtruth]

Like TB I'm old enough for a bus pass.I've grown up disliking that club to the point where today I detest everything about them.

 

Why? Well when I think about it my opinions started to be formed at a very young age like most of us one way or another.My Dad and my Uncles were Football Supporters,mainly Liverpudlians,going to the Match every week.My first game was in the mid 50's when we were in the 2nd Division.

 

It wasn't that they said anything directly to me.It was just the odd comment they made to each other that I picked up on.I started to form the impression that they felt ManU was a team of "playboys" and "fly by nights".I remember them making a reference to their players advertising Brylcreem and cars! In those days that didn't seem to sit well with working class men from a working class City.These were men who occasionally came home from work on the bus talking to one of the LFC players of the day.So,in my young mind,they were a team of "Jack the Lads" and "Flash Harrys" and we were a team of honest to goodness working class heroes.

 

I guess we never set out to intentionally change opinions formed in childhood,

we probably just become more aware and gain more knowledge and information and ultimately reconsider.

 

In my case,everything I have discovered over the years has just endorsed my feelings and made me realise that My Old Dad and my Uncles were right all along;ManU is an organisation based on deceit and arrogance.

 

Their Chairman in the 60's Louis Edwards bribing officials and selling condemned meat for school dinners.The same Louis Edwards hauled in for making illegal payments to potential players.His son Martyn arrested for peeping under women's toilets and then investigated for illegal and fraudulent share dealings when they became a PLC.That clubs disgraceful treatment of their players who survived Munich,kicking them out of their club houses and swindling them out of their pensions and compensations.Their managers over the years,Docherty; surrounded in controversy;Atkinson an arrogant buffoon and Ferguson the biggest cheat in any sport.And that whole organisation which manipulates the media and the football authorities alike.And their supporters with their chants of "We're Manunited and we do what we want!

 

They've had success over the years and fair enough;so have we.But our success was always achieved with honour and integrity intact.

 

Anyway,that's my story and I know that whatever they achieve they will always be a morally bankrupt organisation."Knock Liverpool off their F*****g perch?" Never in a million years!

[boomer39]

some great posts here about the "dung".. and thats being unkind to "dung".

i moved to madchester in 1971 for family/personal reasons, worked till i was 60, 5 years ago... met some great "mancs" , red and blue. used to go to old toilet and maine road just to see a game if i couldnt get to anfield or wherever we were playing. the half time scoreboard and a crappy radio were par for the course then...

always felt the city fans were more like us..they would have been my "club" if i had not been a RED.

in the 70's and 80's,i never felt "threatened" at any game at old toilet.but since "taggart" took over, things changed.. when they started to win things and got closer to us in title terms, they seemed to change.. probably because the new fans were not from stretford!!!! i have never felt hatred for the bitters, never really bothered me if they won lost or drew, but i truly detest the "dung".. monday night, i was the biggest city fan in my local, the week before, when the bitters scored my roar could be heard for miles...

a red manc said a while ago to me, "its jealousy"... i said no,"its hatred"...

we dont have a swear box in my local, we have a "dung" box, if anyone says one of their players names, 10p in the box... not much in it....

right, ttfn...