Local Elections 2023

[Captain Howdy]

2 minutes ago, redinblack said:

You made a call to disenfranchise a swathe of population. In the same way you might think some people might not be able to vote as their cognitive abilities were not up to scratch, I could put it to you that people who watch Ant & Dec or Love Island should be similarly treated. I'm just using your reasoning there. You can't expect civility when you make a call like that. I'm 61 by the way so in your reasoning the next election would be the last I'm eligible for. I've always voted Labour, and will do so reluctantly at the next one for the expedient of evicting the current bunch of thieves, I've never dodged my taxes and I believe that a good society means we all do ok. Does that mean I get a pass when I'm 67?

Spot on

[Bruce Spanner]

[AngryOfTuebrook]

Just now, TheHowieLama said:

Out on a limb with the opinion that if you can't get 1 in 3 to participate in these democratic elections currently there may be a legitimacy issue at the root and adding 16 to 18 year olds not only does not address but exacerbates it.

It wouldn't exacerbate it, but it wouldn't really solve it.  

 

Set aside a couple of hours, buy me a pint and I'll tell you everything I think is wrong and what needs to be done to fix it.

[TheHowieLama]

2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

It wouldn't exacerbate it, but it wouldn't really solve it.  

 

Set aside a couple of hours, buy me a pint and I'll tell you everything I think is wrong and what needs to be done to fix it.

 

I mentioned the EU paying folks being allowed to vote in the General - similar to when ex Pats were included in the last age change - hasn't been discussed here at all.

What thinks you?

[Bruce Spanner]

Burnham ain't that good at this politics lark, is he?

 

On winning in Manchester...

 

'My new mission will be to give everyone growing up here an equal alternative to the university route, so all our young people have a path in life and hope in their heart. And my new plea to Westminster is to give us the powers to free ourselves from the grip of the housing crisis and let us build a benefits system that helps people move forward rather than holds them back.'

 

How to isolate Mancunians and Evertonians in just a careless sentence.

 

 

[TheHowieLama]

1 minute ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Burnham ain't that good at this politics lark, is he?

 

On winning in Manchester...

 

'My new mission will be to give everyone growing up here an equal alternative to the university route, so all our young people have a path in life and hope in their heart. And my new plea to Westminster is to give us the powers to free ourselves from the grip of the housing crisis and let us build a benefits system that helps people move forward rather than holds them back.'

 

How to isolate Mancunians and Evertonians in just a careless sentence.

 

 

 

It's the hope that kills them...

[Bruce Spanner]

Possible recount in Brum as it's so tight.

[Rushies tash]

14 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

16 year olds should get the vote, taking the vote away from 65 year olds is sinister beyond belief, try and justify the indefensible all you like pal, people nodding along as well, fucking staggering. Right you’ve worked all your life, paid your taxes but you might not vote how I like so off you fuck. Fuck…..right…..off

 

Absolutely. We want more participation, not less.

[TheHowieLama]

Just missing that wee bit of centuries of cultures embracing the wisdom of their elders.

[Tj hooker]

Not looking good for Ole Rishi is it , Teesside is looking a bit like an outlier 

[TheHowieLama]

5 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

Absolutely. We want more participation, not less.

I don't have a dog in this fight but if you are someone concerned about social issues, equality, human rights etc and look at tying an individuals right to vote to what is very obviously their useful working life and not see straight through that, that's a problem.

[SasaS]

3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Just missing that wee bit of centuries of cultures embracing the wisdom of their elders.

 

It's not about representation or participation or anything like it, it's about people expecting certain age groups would vote more or vote less in their favour. Like Scotland's independents referendum, when voting age was lowered because teenagers were less likely to think about financial and other implications of independence. . 

[Section_31]

6 minutes ago, Tj hooker said:

Not looking good for Ole Rishi is it , Teesside is looking a bit like an outlier 

 

Milftastic 

[Rushies tash]

Just now, TheHowieLama said:

I don't have a dog in this fight but if you are someone concerned about social issues, equality, human rights etc and look at tying an individuals right to vote to what is very obviously their useful working life and not see straight through that, that's a problem.

 

Not sure what you mean. I think you're old enough at 16 to vote and disagree with the assertion that older people shouldn't.

[TheHowieLama]

4 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

It's not about representation or participation or anything like it, it's about people expecting certain age groups would vote more or vote less in their favour. Like Scotland's independents referendum, when voting age was lowered because teenagers were less likely to think about financial and other implications of independence. . 

I know- thats why I mentioned the part about ex pats vs non citizens and the last time. It's no different here - probably worse. I call it eugerrymandering but I made that up and it hasn't caught on yet.

[Rushies tash]

2 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

It's not about representation or participation or anything like it, it's about people expecting certain age groups would vote more or vote less in their favour. Like Scotland's independents referendum, when voting age was lowered because teenagers were less likely to think about financial and other implications of independence. . 

 

They can vote for the Scottish and Welsh assemblies as well. I haven't heard of any reported problems with that.

[TheHowieLama]

6 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

Not sure what you mean. I think you're old enough at 16 to vote and disagree with the assertion that older people shouldn't.

That is not what started the conversation or for my reply - my personal opinion is it is too low for the US and agree  with you on the latter.

Y'all can deal w the 16 part.

[SasaS]

1 minute ago, Rushies tash said:

 

They can vote for the Scottish and Welsh assemblies as well. I haven't heard of any reported problems with that.

 

But the motivation was because the opinion polls showed they would be more likely to vote yes and SNP than the rival parties. If the polls showed teenagers prefer centrist and conservative options  like their grandparents, they would not be voting before centrists or conservatives take over. 

[Arniepie]

2 hours ago, SasaS said:

If you are protected as a minor, it means society thinks there is a reason for it, as in, your brain not being fully formed etc. Although it is often just a cultural thing.

Can't you join the army at 16?

[Rushies tash]

3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

That is not what started the conversation or for my reply - my personal opinion is it is too low for the US and agree  with you on the latter.

Y'all can deal w the 16 part.

 

My point about working at 16 was simply to point out the contradiction of treating people as adults in one respect (including joining the army etc.) but then saying that they aren't mature enough to understand what a political party is offering. We'll just have to disagree I suppose.

[an tha]

44 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

16 year olds should get the vote, taking the vote away from 65 year olds is sinister beyond belief, try and justify the indefensible all you like pal, people nodding along as well, fucking staggering. Right you’ve worked all your life, paid your taxes but you might not vote how I like so off you fuck. Fuck…..right…..off

"Sinister beyond belief".....

 

Oh and if you can't be civil even after being asked to be then I have no desire to talk with you any further.

[SasaS]

9 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Can't you join the army at 16?

 

I don't know. In most countries you can't.

[TheHowieLama]

6 minutes ago, Rushies tash said:

 

My point about working at 16 was simply to point out the contradiction of treating people as adults in one respect (including joining the army etc.) but then saying that they aren't mature enough to understand what a political party is offering. We'll just have to disagree I suppose.

We aren't disagreeing on that, that is my point as well - can you join the army there at 16? Drink here is different than over there.

See my previous post - it is being considered here as well for the same reasons. 

[an tha]

49 minutes ago, redinblack said:

You made a call to disenfranchise a swathe of population. In the same way you might think some people might not be able to vote as their cognitive abilities were not up to scratch, I could put it to you that people who watch Ant & Dec or Love Island should be similarly treated. I'm just using your reasoning there. You can't expect civility when you make a call like that. I'm 61 by the way so in your reasoning the next election would be the last I'm eligible for. I've always voted Labour, and will do so reluctantly at the next one for the expedient of evicting the current bunch of thieves, I've never dodged my taxes and I believe that a good society means we all do ok. Does that mean I get a pass when I'm 67?

65 has already been conceded as being too low....75 was then proposed.

 

I stand by my opinion on the matter for all the reasons already stated.

 

 

[Bobby Hundreds]

Old enough to pay tax, have money taken out of your earnings in order to pay for our society then you are old enough to vote.