Keir Starmer

[Skidfingers McGonical]

4 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Owen Jones ripped up his membership today with a big piece in the Guardian.

 

I can’t wait for the Big rainbow/green trot party of the UK to come romping home now, any minute.

Far from his biggest fan, but can’t disagree with anything he has written there. 
 

Except that he looks fuck all like McAuley Culkin. 
 

 

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Absolutely true this. 

 

From above I saw:

we havent had a centre left gmnt in about 40 years

 

It's not a country full of centre left citizens - why would you?

 

After 14 years of tory rule it may well have turned that way. All popular opinion suggests the public are to the left of the two main parties. 

 

[Jairzinho]

19 minutes ago, TheSire said:

"If I have ten pounds, I can't buy 20 pints, it's not rocket science this economics guys!"

 

Yeah, I remember Varoufakis on there visibly shaken by the fucking idiocy in the room.

[Arniepie]

15 minutes ago, Anubis said:

It doesn't matter what hashtag is trending on Twitter as its an exceptionally small barometer for the country. Nothing the Tories have done with their culture war has put a dent in Labour's poll lead. And the Tory vote is more likely to be split than the Labour vote, as the rabids split off to vote Reform, and the more traditional Tory voters split off to Labour and the Lib Dems.

 

Labour will have a very big majority. That's the reality.

like stig said before

the fucking morons in this country gave boris johnson and 80 seat majority.

Ill only believe it when it happens. 

[Arniepie]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Absolutely true this. 

 

From above I saw:

we havent had a centre left gmnt in about 40 years

 

It's not a country full of centre left citizens - why would you?

because gnash said the country want a centre left government,

even now,im not sure that true.

even after the last 13 years,the thick cunts only turned on the tories when their mortages went through the roof.

[Gnasher]

19 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Yeah, I remember Varoufakis on there visibly shaken by the fucking idiocy in the room.

 

Some Labour front benchers are now similar to that fella in the audience. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Owen Jones ripped up his membership today with a big piece in the Guardian.

 

I can’t wait for the Big rainbow/green trot party of the UK to come romping home now, any minute.

When I saw he was announcing something, I thought "oh fuck, not another fringe party".

 

Thankfully, it isn't.  Instead, he's talking about the wild idea of voting for candidates with principles you agree with.  I'd be more than happy to see a Labour Government shorn of twats like Reeves and Streeting because they lost their seat to a candidate with Labour values.

 

[Scooby Dudek]

I'm confused as Jones seems to have been in the party 24 years and doesn't like Corbyn, yet it is repeated time and again  that people don't like Starmer because they love Corbyn and in fact only joined the party recently.

 

[TheSire]

1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Yeah, I remember Varoufakis on there visibly shaken by the fucking idiocy in the room.

That's EXACTLY the clip! The stupid twat made a massive fool of himself. 

[sir roger]

2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

 

Nature of the modern "left", it'll be the same with whoever follows him. Impossible to be all things to all people. 

 

Hardcore Corbyn supporters only like Corbyn, Long Bailey - his chosen successor - Michael Foot, who lost, and John Smith, who sadly died. 

 

They hate Kinnock, Blair, Brown (who I've actually seen branded a Blairite, er), tend to be indifferent to Miliband.

 

Basically they hate most Labour leaders in my lifetime, including the only one who ever won anything. Which makes me suspect they don't actually like Labour, but what Labour briefly became (thanks in part to people who joined the party only to elect Corbyn).

 

They hate Blair more than they profess to hate Thatcher at rallies and on Twitter, and hate Starmer more than Johnson and Sunak combined.  It's  actually mental.

 

Pretty fact-free, partisan stuff this.

 

There are of course idiots on the left of the Labour Party who talk shite,  but the ' our shit don't stink ' pomposity of the centrist / right factions of the party fair takes the breath away. The guys and girls you are aligned to have only had an outsider lead them for 3/4 years of the last 50 years or so  and in that short time were far more vindictive and cunty, and worked in cahoots with the right-wing media to avoid any chance of a Labour government. 

 

Large portions of the left ( like myself ) voted for Starmer over Long-Bailey as they felt she was hopeless, and he and his 10 points was the best hope for the party. I,  like the vast majority of  leftists have voted for the party whoever was leader over the years. Not a courtesy offered to Corbyn by the thousands of centrist proudly announcing they wouldn't vote for him in elections. 

 

I will vote Labour as I like the local candidate, but have very low expectations of Starmer and his front bench to alleviate the problems that have been caused by the last 14 years. I hope 

[Jack the Sipper]

18 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I'm confused as Jones seems to have been in the party 24 years and doesn't like Corbyn, yet it is repeated time and again  that people don't like Starmer because they love Corbyn and in fact only joined the party recently.

 

 

I'm not sure about Jones not liking Corbyn, but he did argue that Corbyn should stand down as leader because he wasn't up to the job and would lose the election. One of the few political judgement calls he got right, ironically so considering he's been riding the Corbyn wave ever since.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/01/corbyn-staying-not-good-enough

 

What I find confusing, though, is that Jones has been a member for so long, throughout the Blair years of the 'third way' and centrism, budget restraint, cosying up to the right wing press and to the wealth creators, the ending of Clause 4, the bombing of Iraq, yet these are the reasons he gives for leaving Labour under Starmer - and bear in mind Labour haven't even won the election yet!

 

 

[Creator Supreme]

10 minutes ago, sir roger said:

There are of course idiots on the left of the Labour Party who talk shite,  but the ' our shit don't stink ' pomposity of the centrist / right factions of the party fair takes the breath away. The guys and girls you are aligned to have only had an outsider lead them for 3/4 years of the last 50 years or so  and in that short time were far more vindictive and cunty, and worked in cahoots with the right-wing media to avoid any chance of a Labour government. 

 

Large portions of the left ( like myself ) voted for Starmer over Long-Bailey as they felt she was hopeless, and he and his 10 points was the best hope for the party. I,  like the vast majority of  leftists have voted for the party whoever was leader over the years. Not a courtesy offered to Corbyn by the thousands of centrist proudly announcing they wouldn't vote for him in elections. 

Very well put.

 

It's why I went to the Greens. I moved before Corbyn got the top job, and even when he was leader I wouldn't go back as there were, and still are, too many Rachel Reeves, Stephen Kinnocks and Liz Kendalls. Not enough Corbyns, McDonnells, Skinners or Tony Benns.

 

Hilary Benn can fuck off.

 

If I lived in a marginal I'd hold my nose and vote whoever got the tories out (assuming it wasn't the Greens, I'd vote happily for them). But I'm not in a marginal thankfully.

[Scooby Dudek]

16 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

I'm not sure about Jones not liking Corbyn, but he did argue that Corbyn should stand down as leader because he wasn't up to the job and would lose the election. One of the few political judgement calls he got right, ironically so considering he's been riding the Corbyn wave ever since.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/01/corbyn-staying-not-good-enough

 

What I find confusing, though, is that Jones has been a member for so long, throughout the Blair years of the 'third way' and centrism, budget restraint, cosying up to the right wing press and to the wealth creators, the ending of Clause 4, the bombing of Iraq, yet these are the reasons he gives for leaving Labour under Starmer - and bear in mind Labour haven't even won the election yet!

 

 

My comment was slightly tongue in cheek,  in relation to people apparently only able to hold extreme opinions, I.e. I love Corbyn, therefore I must hate Starmer.

 

I'm still in the party and am close to going and whilst I get/agree with your timelines list, what feels different this time is how the leadership have seized control and want no dissent. As you said yourself, Blair stopped Corbyn from being deselected, whereas now it feels the leadership are overseeing every selection and finding reasons to actively stop people with differing opinions from getting on the list, nevermind support them. 

Obviously people are able to disagree with how I see it, but that is how I see it. I've stayed in to fight for what I think is the correct way forward, believing it could be changed. I now believe that change is not possible, even if tbe membership wanted it,so why stay in and waste time and energy ? 

Again, not saying this is Jones take, but it could justify leaving now whilst staying in for the previous 24 years.

[Arniepie]

I think a lot is to do with the mentality of the people in this country.

In the midst of the horrors of ww1, the russians fucked off home and offed the royal family.

We stuck it out for 4 years and 80 years later still grovel to them,.Im not sure there is another country in the world who would vote in a man because he has a posh accent and can speak a line of latin.

The left wing dont stand a chance in this fucking country of fucking peasants.  

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Yer boy Keir here, being either disingenuous or a bit thick, saying that he’s only calling for a ceasefire now because thousands of people have been killed (Keir seems reluctant to say who it was who killed these people???) but just lacking that bit of understanding that calling for an earlier ceasefire could have resulted in these thousands of dead people not being dead.

 

Why is 30k his limit? Isn’t 20k or 25k bad enough? Or even 10k? 

 

Knock yourselves out and vote for Labour. But, I won’t be voting for a party led by such a disgusting prick as this man. 
 

 

[Jack the Sipper]

31 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

My comment was slightly tongue in cheek,  in relation to people apparently only able to hold extreme opinions, I.e. I love Corbyn, therefore I must hate Starmer.

 

I'm still in the party and am close to going and whilst I get/agree with your timelines list, what feels different this time is how the leadership have seized control and want no dissent. As you said yourself, Blair stopped Corbyn from being deselected, whereas now it feels the leadership are overseeing every selection and finding reasons to actively stop people with differing opinions from getting on the list, nevermind support them. 

Obviously people are able to disagree with how I see it, but that is how I see it. I've stayed in to fight for what I think is the correct way forward, believing it could be changed. I now believe that change is not possible, even if tbe membership wanted it,so why stay in and waste time and energy ? 

Again, not saying this is Jones take, but it could justify leaving now whilst staying in for the previous 24 years.

 

I think that was Bruce or SD.

 

Someone else above pointed out today that where Corbyn went wrong was not kicking out the 'traitors' in the party when he became leader. I'd argue his leadership was doomed from the off for many reasons, but I agree that he was too weak dealing with dissent among the ranks. Which is why I can understand why Starmer's fucked off the elements in his party that, intentionally or not, through their words and actions ultimately undermine his cause of making Labour (relatively) united and electable again.

 

 

[Strontium]

The funny thing is, Starmer hasn't really had to deal with dissent. The cranks have self-expelled.

[Section_31]

I'd be genuinely pleased if a left wing alternative formed which could help shape the wider political narrative, as long as it's after the election and doesn't derail things. We need a unity opposition, like we need a unity government during war.

[Bjornebye]

Have the Lib Dem’s stood still recently? I suppose they’ve always been stood still unless they’re sucking Tory teat but I expected more from them this time. 

[Strontium]

On 24/12/2022 at 15:43, Strontium said:

Often forgotten or ignored is how socially conservative Labour used to be. We even read on here the other day about how the Attlee government deported thousands of Chinese who fought for us in WWII. To quite a large extent, the party has left the people who used to vote for it behind. 

 

Tying into this which I mentioned previously - the distribution map of those who signed the petition to "Remove LGBT content from the Relationships Education curriculum". Pretty much all the darkest areas are Labour constituencies.

 

https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=630932

 

Be interesting to see what traditional Labour voting social conservatives do in the future as the party maintains a socially progressive course.

[Bjornebye]

I wonder if they’ll create fake newspapers and peddle misinformation through them in the run up to the election? Everyone else plays dirty so why not. 

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

I'd be genuinely pleased if a left wing alternative formed which could help shape the wider political narrative, as long as it's after the election and doesn't derail things. We need a unity opposition, like we need a unity government during war.

 

What did you think of Rachel Reeves speech? You've made loads of posts attacking people discussing it but as far as I can you have not made an opinion of your own. 

 

Do you agree Thatcher brought in a national period of renewal? Honest questio? 

[Bjornebye]

Questio 

 

Great name for a board game. 

[Gnasher]

7 hours ago, Section_31 said:

You can never be left enough.

 

 

We not expectingTrotsky but any chance an incoming Labour government could be a little bit to the left of Margaret Thatcher's government after 79? 

[Bruce Spanner]

7 hours ago, Anubis said:

It doesn't matter what hashtag is trending on Twitter as its an exceptionally small barometer for the country. Nothing the Tories have done with their culture war has put a dent in Labour's poll lead. And the Tory vote is more likely to be split than the Labour vote, as the rabids split off to vote Reform, and the more traditional Tory voters split off to Labour and the Lib Dems.

 

Labour will have a very big majority. That's the reality.

Was listening to The News Agents earlier and they were going through the numbers on polling, and it’s not as simple as is being made out, hence the safety first stance.

 

When you do polling you exclude the ‘don’t knows’, this is true of all the main polling companies.

 

So, in the polls we see where Labour are on 40+ % and the Tories on 20% for example there’s a further 17% of people polled who are not part of these numbers. Only the 100% of people who said they had a firm choice are part of the overall polls, leaving nearly a fifth of people who previously voted not part of the figures.

 

The deep dive on them is that the majority are conservative votes, based on their 2019 voting.

 

Thats why people are banging the no complacency drum as once you factor in Reform cutting a deal to stand down, like previous, and these other voters who are ‘undecided’ you actually have a much closer race potentially, as unbelievable as that honestly is.