Other football 2016/17.

[navbasi]

AFC Wimbledon promoted to League 1.

[matt1983]

AFC Wimbledon promoted to League 1.

Thoroughly deserved too- Plymouth were never in it. I did wonder if the hype and expectation around AFC would hamper them, but to be fair the players must be getting used to it. Good luck to them.

[Trumo]

Do they still have Tyrone playing up front for them?

[Harry Squatter]

Yes. Scored a pen at the end but he is being released by them and has no.club now. Could still get a part in a Guy Ritchie film or play Purple Aki in his biopic.

[3 Stacks]

Monchi, the great Director of Football at Sevilla is leaving the club. Big rumours he is coming to England. Wonder which club will land him and how his methods will translate if he's got more money to spend.

[El Rojo]

Monchi, the great Director of Football at Sevilla is leaving the club. Big rumours he is coming to England. Wonder which club will land him and how his methods will translate if he's got more money to spend.

I wonder how he'd get on if he was only allowed to buy Southampton players.

[Harry Squatter]

Replacement for the transfer committee

[kalasoma]

This should be us, in our pursuit of Monchi.

 

[Nightcat]

What if he undermines Klopp's ideas?

 

Are we signing any shite? I'm bored already. Fucking idiots.

[Ne Moe Imya]

Monchi/Klopp is a recipe for world domination.

 

I would think if it were going to happen then we wouldn't have announced that Ayre was going to step down next summer - where would he fit in with Klopp and Monchi here next season?  Strictly doing the commercial deals?

 

Probably end up at United or something.

[RazorBack]

EHF Handball Final 4 > Footie CL this year. It wasn't very good, was it?

[Cardie]

Why would people want Monchi yet scoff at the idea of analytics in football?

[TheHowieLama]

 

Everton make bold move to poach star Sevilla sporting director Monchi

 

[Denny Crane]

Why would people want Monchi yet scoff at the idea of analytics in football?

I'm no expert on Sevilla but all the reports over the years have highlighted their vast scouting as being instrumental and a good dose of commonsense.

 

Ramon Rodriguez Verdejo, better known as Monchi, has built more teams than your average analytics-embracing club owner has sacked coaches. He is Mr Moneyball taking on the wealthy by spending a lot less money, a lot more wisely. In many ways he is also the “Anti-Moneyball”. “We work a lot with some very good databases but often the key lies in what cannot be measured,” he told Panenka magazine this year. “When you have all the objective data at your disposal you have to add your own subjective impression of the player and ask not ‘How good is he?’ but ‘Will he be good for Sevilla?’

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/manchester-city-vs-sevilla-who-needs-moneyball-if-you-have-monchi-a6701616.html

[Cardie]

I'm no expert on Sevilla but all the reports over the years have highlighted their vast scouting as being instrumental and a good dose of commonsense.

 

Ramon Rodriguez Verdejo, better known as Monchi, has built more teams than your average analytics-embracing club owner has sacked coaches. He is Mr Moneyball taking on the wealthy by spending a lot less money, a lot more wisely. In many ways he is also the “Anti-Moneyball”. “We work a lot with some very good databases but often the key lies in what cannot be measured,” he told Panenka magazine this year. “When you have all the objective data at your disposal you have to add your own subjective impression of the player and ask not ‘How good is he?’ but ‘Will he be good for Sevilla?’

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/manchester-city-vs-sevilla-who-needs-moneyball-if-you-have-monchi-a6701616.html

He also talks of looking at narrowing his search based on stats (distance a player runs etc) and narrowing down the search by that before looking at individual names and looking for players nobody knows.

 

Is methods are very close to some anerixan sports methods.

 

The anti-thesis of this forums prefered method (at the moment anyway as it endlessly changes).

[Denny Crane]

He also talks of looking at narrowing his search based on stats (distance a player runs etc) and narrowing down the search by that before looking at individual names and looking for players nobody knows.

 

Is methods are very close to some anerixan sports methods.

 

The anti-thesis of this forums prefered method (at the moment anyway as it endlessly changes).

Theirs seems to be a starting point followed by extensive scouting and looking at how the players fit. There is quite a bit of information out there talking about the players mentality how they will settle etc. How he fits into the coaches plans, age differences in recruitment, balance of a squad etc.

 

If we believe the information out there about Liverpool and look at the end outcomes the only similarities are a computer.

[Cardie]

Less about comparisons with Liverpool the club and more what is and isn't acceptable from it's supporters.

 

Granted he's better at it but it doesn't satisfy the craving for 'proven' or 'expensive' or the newest little criteria of not being below the age of say 23. We have a tendency to project a players ability at point of sale to his ability at the point of being signed when they are very different things.

 

Even taking one of Monchi's biggest successes if we signed a teenage Right Back from Brazil we'd have had plenty (you among them) deriding the policy and showing a lack of ambition. All without knowing a fraction of what went into signing him. That in turn would have meant very little patience with the player because he wasn't your player and he probably wouldn't have become the player he is.

 

Infact we probably don't even have to imagine, we only need look back to when we were linked with Gameiro and the reaction to it.

[Ne Moe Imya]

Theirs seems to be a starting point followed by extensive scouting and looking at how the players fit. There is quite a bit of information out there talking about the players mentality how they will settle etc. How he fits into the coaches plans, age differences in recruitment, balance of a squad etc.

 

If we believe the information out there about Liverpool and look at the end outcomes the only similarities are a computer.

 

Yeah, I hate to break it to you but this is pretty much exactly how our transfer committee works.  I think it was Dave Fallows that gave an interview a few years back about how the statistical analysis is the starting point, mostly used to eliminate players who are overrated by the market.

 

Then they use the list of players that are left as a springboard for scouting players, particularly how they might fit into the Liverpool squad.  You can obviously see it hasn't worked that well but the basic idea is exactly the same as what you describe.

[Denny Crane]

Cardie Cardie last comments on this we can save this for the transfer thread.

 

You started off talking about analytics and Monchi and scoffing. I highlighted your initial observations were misguided and poorly informed.

 

You now have decided to change the reference of the discussion using sweeping generalisations such as young players specifically mentioning me.

 

I can only speak for myself but on the whole no-one is against signing young players but most recognise the need for a solid mix. Some of us just don't want a squad with lots of inexperienced players. It's not anecdotal strong evidence supports title winning teams in England have the right mix.

 

Not sure what Gameiro and Alves have to do with this I could easily take Banega a player I suggested we sign. But that would be cherrypicking I have tried to frame this within a bigger context for you.

 

As for patience I don't want to sound arrogant but Liverpools goals should be higher than Sevilla. However under this ownership it would be utopia to win 3 Europas.

 

I think this is where we fundamentally disagree you think par 5th is acceptable. I believe we should aim higher the owners were on record accordingly on several occasions supporting their aims of matching Barca/Madrid, winning etc. I aim pointing out their failure to match their aims.

[Denny Crane]

Yeah, I hate to break it to you but this is pretty much exactly how our transfer committee works.  I think it was Dave Fallows that gave an interview a few years back about how the statistical analysis is the starting point, mostly used to eliminate players who are overrated by the market.

 

Then they use the list of players that are left as a springboard for scouting players, particularly how they might fit into the Liverpool squad.  You can obviously see it hasn't worked that well but the basic idea is exactly the same as what you describe.

Evidence says otherwise pal.

[navbasi]

This is a good interview, he talks about how their model works..

 

The secret behind Sevilla’s success? Meet Monchi, the transfer wizard.....

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/17/sevilla-monchi-liverpool-europa-league-final

[Captain]

Code is in full flow again.

 

Marvelous.

[Hand Shandy]

Which one are you talking about? By my reckoning, I think there's about three on the go at the moment...

[Captain]

Denny boy.

[Hand Shandy]

Yeah, that's the most obvious one. Not really trying to hide it any more.