Summer 2023 Transfer Thread

[Scott_M]

5 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

They make these noises every Spring.

Don’t start… the past is the past, posters will never agree on if we spend enough or not. 
 

We all have our opinions on why we didn’t sign a midfielder in the summer (or January), let’s just hope we finally rectify it in the summer. 

[JohnnyH]

12 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

They make these noises every Spring.

No, they don’t. But again, that doesn’t matter. The comment was “all noises are there is no war chest” when that’s simply not true. 

[Scott_M]

On Ugarte, I’ll confess, I’ve never seen him play. I only know what I’ve read and that’s he’s a Mascherano / Gattuso type player. 
 

To me, if that’s the case, he doesn’t strike me as being immediately suited to us. 
 

Mascherano could hunt the ball because Alonso held his role. Gattuso could hunt the ball  because Pirlo held his role. Kante could hunt the ball because Jorginho held his role etc etc etc. 

 

While Mascherano, Gattuso & Kante are excellent players, you can’t say quality on the ball was ever one of their main qualities. Their systems (4-2-3-1) allowed them to do what they were best at.

 

I think in a 4-3-3, hunting isn’t enough. They need more on the ball to be an #8 and more disciplined to be a #6. That’s not to say those players couldn’t be a #6, I’m sure they could, but mopping up (which Fabinho is world class at) takes away from their hunting qualities. 
 

I’m not dismissing Ugarte. Mascherano. Kante and Gattuso were excellent, excellent players. I’m not convinced they’d flourish as much in our system. 
 

Again, it’s about the right player, not the best player. 

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, redrosetints said:

It’s not just about age is it, it’s about the right player. Gundogan would be an upgrade on Milner and Thiago IMHO proven prem talent who would make us better on a free. We’d still need some younger legs elsewhere anyway it’s all moot as he isn’t coming 

 

Well it is about age and we can't just sign a bloke for 2 or 3 years and hope he sees it through, when we have more of those profile players in the squad. Plus klopp wants a team that plays a high line, compresses play, can press high with lots of intensity. I'm not saying gundugan isn't a cracking player, he is. But for me you can drop someone of his age into a team that's full of kids and needs an older head. I don't think that's what we're looking for. And if it is we have thiago, Henderson & fabinho. How many old midfielders does any side need? Even if we made thiago available and we tried to swap them like for like, it's questionable anyone would want thiago, because he's never fit. Years of neglect, coupled with our late 20s players in ox and keita crapping out, mean we need to be looking for players much younger than gundugan for me. 

[redrosetints]

23 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

Well it is about age and we can't just sign a bloke for 2 or 3 years and hope he sees it through, when we have more of those profile players in the squad. Plus klopp wants a team that plays a high line, compresses play, can press high with lots of intensity. I'm not saying gundugan isn't a cracking player, he is. But for me you can drop someone of his age into a team that's full of kids and needs an older head. I don't think that's what we're looking for. And if it is we have thiago, Henderson & fabinho. How many old midfielders does any side need? Even if we made thiago available and we tried to swap them like for like, it's questionable anyone would want thiago, because he's never fit. Years of neglect, coupled with our late 20s players in ox and keita crapping out, mean we need to be looking for players much younger than gundugan for me. 

All good points, I’m not disagreeing, but as part of an overhaul, an experienced player who knows Klopps system, top pro, winning attitude, prem ready, hit the ground running etc would be an improvement overall for me. I do agree we need younger players too, he would be in addition too rather than instead of.

 

anyways, he won’t be coming so it’s all moot. 

[bossy]

I don’t want Mount. Nothing to do with footy ability, he just looks wrong. Don’t do it Jurgen.

[Mook]

1 hour ago, JohnnyH said:

No, they don’t. But again, that doesn’t matter. The comment was “all noises are there is no war chest” when that’s simply not true. 

 

They do and it does matter on a summer transfer thread, regardless of the other, inaccurate comment made.

[3 Stacks]

34 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

They do and it does matter on a summer transfer thread, regardless of the other, inaccurate comment made.

We very early on in windows often get reports that we probably wont buy much and it usually ends up being true. 

[Bourbon]

The Mount thing annoys and confuses. 
 

A No 10 who doesn’t fit into the 4-3-3 so gets shoehorned in down the sides where he can’t accelerate the game and ends up following the game just to lay it off. 

He’s also very London and just can’t see it looking anything other than forced. 

 

Whatever you think of Elliott’s Mechanic’s apprentice from Dagenham vibe, he surely covers most of what Mount would bring? 
 

We won all kinds with Fabinho, Henderson, Wijnaldum - three rock solid athletes who held the shape and knew when and how to facilitate the front three.

 

Say he uses Alexander Arnold as the more attacking of the three, we need another for the box to box and one for the holding role - the game hasn’t moved on that far, so far. 

 

The Scottish lad is supposedly excellent, really coming on before his knock. So he maybe won’t feel he needs a right back. 
 

Milner, Keita and Oxlade-Chamberlain moved on. 
 

Keep the high line and the new version of the focussed pressing and counter pressing spells we’ve found again and we’ll be back at it - when we’ve pressed this last 2 months or so, teams have absolutely filled their keks again and it comes straight back, (all bar Real of course who keep calm better than anyone yet we still blitzed them first 20 again).
 

 The forwards looks great, Gakpo can be a star. 
 

I’d go Ugarte and Matheus at Wolves if Mac Allister is overpriced or he doesn’t feel the balance is there. 

[JohnnyH]

1 hour ago, Mook said:

 

They do and it does matter on a summer transfer thread, regardless of the other, inaccurate comment made.

Again, no it doesn’t. I was correcting a false statement. If you want to you have your whiny conversation then there’s plenty others crying into their milk for you to have it with. Mine was specific to a claim made that was incorrect, so I corrected it. 

[RoyHodgeGone]

I'm scratching my head a bit. What sort of midfield are we looking for? Do we expect Trent to play there week in week out next season? Curtis has skill and energy. I know Fabinho hasn't had a great season but are we giving up on him? He's only 29. Hendo might also benefit from having his game time managed. I'd like to see us sign someone with energy and ball winning qualities  but not sure why we'd be targetting the playmaker/passing type.

[3 Stacks]

40 minutes ago, RoyHodgeGone said:

I'm scratching my head a bit. What sort of midfield are we looking for? Do we expect Trent to play there week in week out next season? Curtis has skill and energy. I know Fabinho hasn't had a great season but are we giving up on him? He's only 29. Hendo might also benefit from having his game time managed. I'd like to see us sign someone with energy and ball winning qualities  but not sure why we'd be targetting the playmaker/passing type.

The playmaker passing types arent precluded from having energy. Mount has a huge engine. So does Mac Allister. If you have players who can win the ball high up, you just need people in behind who sweep up. And players like Mount and Mac Allister know what to do when they win the ball. 

 

People forget that some of Klopps Dortmund teams were basically composed of a bunch of no10s and not very quick playmakers. Kagawa, Gotze, Gundogan, Sahin. 

 

City dont have a fast midfield whatsoever and they squeeze teams. There are multiple ways of having energetic midfields. You can have smaller profiles who have loads of stamina, you can have big athletes. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

We need to be flexible we cant just become the Trent show because when he's out where do we go.

[Carra_is_legend]

We have to rebuild our midfield with young hungry players, not a 33 year old Gundogan who is looking for a last big pay cheque.

[Mook]

3 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

Again, no it doesn’t. I was correcting a false statement. If you want to you have your whiny conversation then there’s plenty others crying into their milk for you to have it with. Mine was specific to a claim made that was incorrect, so I corrected it. 

 

I'm not whining or looking for a whiny conversation, I was merely pointing out my opinion on something you said, which was separate from your correction on the other poster's point.

 

What the club says in advance of transfer windows about how much they will spend doesn't matter a huge deal in the great scheme of things but it is certainly relevant to a 'Summer Transfer Thread'. 

[Barrington Womble]

5 hours ago, redrosetints said:

All good points, I’m not disagreeing, but as part of an overhaul, an experienced player who knows Klopps system, top pro, winning attitude, prem ready, hit the ground running etc would be an improvement overall for me. I do agree we need younger players too, he would be in addition too rather than instead of.

 

anyways, he won’t be coming so it’s all moot. 

 

Yeah, I get what you're saying and if fabinho and thiago were leaving this summer, I'd say get him in. But they're pretty unlikely to be. And I understand the idea of "addition to", but I don't see us doing that, I see us operating a 1 in 1 out on any permanent players that leave and that has to be young players who actually are ready to replace thiago, Henderson and fabinho once we let them go. 

 

As you say, it doesn't seem likely it'll happen anyway. 

[House of Dirk]

I would like to see midfielders that dont have the constitution of a small child with Ricketts disease.

[an tha]

Just get players in who are top class at what our midfield did so well in Klopp's best and most effective set up when we were boss and then ask them to do those jobs.

 

On the subject of the midfield.....This article if it has much substance is a touch discouraging if these are really all we are looking at:

 

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2023/05/liverpool-journalist-rules-out-manuel-ugarte-3-others-very-much-on-the-agenda/

[Creator Supreme]

14 minutes ago, House of Dirk said:

I would like to see midfielders that dont have the constitution of a small child with Ricketts disease.

Michael Ricketts?

[an tha]

33 minutes ago, House of Dirk said:

I would like to see midfielders that dont have the constitution of a small child with Ricketts disease.

I wondered I how many combined minutes Oxlade, Keita, Thiago, Arthur and Jones have played in league this season.

 

Possibly less in total than say for example Brumo Fernandes has on his own.

 

OK a chunk of it will be because Klopp considers some of them too shite to bother with, but they are here and earn good money so we should expect them to be seen as good enough and plus a huge chunk of it will be because they have just been unavailable so often - and let's face it we have needed options this season.

 

So I dug into it.

 

Fernandes has started 34 of their 35 league games and played 90 mins in every single one of those 34 games...only game he has missed was a game due to suspension - Total 3,060 mins

 

Those 5 - Oxlade, Keita, Jones, Arthur and Thiago have given us a total combined of:

 

Oxlade: 334

Keita: 290

Jones: 835

Arthur: 0

Thiago 1,256

 

Total: 2,715

 

 

 

[Pidge]

7 hours ago, Scott_M said:

On Ugarte, I’ll confess, I’ve never seen him play. I only know what I’ve read and that’s he’s a Mascherano / Gattuso type player. 
 

To me, if that’s the case, he doesn’t strike me as being immediately suited to us. 
 

Mascherano could hunt the ball because Alonso held his role. Gattuso could hunt the ball  because Pirlo held his role. Kante could hunt the ball because Jorginho held his role etc etc etc. 

 

While Mascherano, Gattuso & Kante are excellent players, you can’t say quality on the ball was ever one of their main qualities. Their systems (4-2-3-1) allowed them to do what they were best at.

 

I think in a 4-3-3, hunting isn’t enough. They need more on the ball to be an #8 and more disciplined to be a #6. That’s not to say those players couldn’t be a #6, I’m sure they could, but mopping up (which Fabinho is world class at) takes away from their hunting qualities. 
 

I’m not dismissing Ugarte. Mascherano. Kante and Gattuso were excellent, excellent players. I’m not convinced they’d flourish as much in our system. 
 

Again, it’s about the right player, not the best player. 

 

Kante doesn't match the other two at all here, if Ugarte is like Kante then you get him, no question. If he's a Gattuso or even Mascha, then there's probably better value out there.

[Moo]

9 hours ago, Mook said:

 

They make these noises every Spring.

 

What noises even are they? Last I heard not qualifying for the CL would significantly affect the budget. But I don't pay that much attention as it's all bullshit.

 

[Red74]

2 hours ago, an tha said:

I wondered I how many combined minutes Oxlade, Keita, Thiago, Arthur and Jones have played in league this season.

 

Possibly less in total than say for example Brumo Fernandes has on his own.

 

OK a chunk of it will be because Klopp considers some of them too shite to bother with, but they are here and earn good money so we should expect them to be seen as good enough and plus a huge chunk of it will be because they have just been unavailable so often - and let's face it we have needed options this season.

 

So I dug into it.

 

Fernandes has started 34 of their 35 league games and played 90 mins in every single one of those 34 games...only game he has missed was a game due to suspension - Total 3,060 mins

 

Those 5 - Oxlade, Keita, Jones, Arthur and Thiago have given us a total combined of:

 

Oxlade: 334

Keita: 290

Jones: 835

Arthur: 0

Thiago 1,256

 

Total: 2,715

 

 

 

Says it all that. That goofy rat breaks a leg in every match he plays yet’s always available next game yet our lot pull a hamstring lifting their arse up on the couch to let a fart out. 

[House of Dirk]

2 hours ago, an tha said:

I wondered I how many combined minutes Oxlade, Keita, Thiago, Arthur and Jones have played in league this season.

 

Possibly less in total than say for example Brumo Fernandes has on his own.

 

OK a chunk of it will be because Klopp considers some of them too shite to bother with, but they are here and earn good money so we should expect them to be seen as good enough and plus a huge chunk of it will be because they have just been unavailable so often - and let's face it we have needed options this season.

 

So I dug into it.

 

Fernandes has started 34 of their 35 league games and played 90 mins in every single one of those 34 games...only game he has missed was a game due to suspension - Total 3,060 mins

 

Those 5 - Oxlade, Keita, Jones, Arthur and Thiago have given us a total combined of:

 

Oxlade: 334

Keita: 290

Jones: 835

Arthur: 0

Thiago 1,256

 

Total: 2,715

 

 

 

Quite staggering really and just shows what a difference one player would have made, even if it was like signing Sabitzer in January.

[House of Dirk]

2 hours ago, Creator Supreme said:

Michael Ricketts?

Would have conreibuted more than Arthur Melo, although thats a low bar. My 95 year old Nan would have made a difference. trouble is, we are probably at the limits of international signings, and she would count as Irish.