Russia v Ukraine

[Pureblood]

9 minutes ago, SasaS said:

(you can easily check, just look at the list of news items and articles, if they are all point in the same direction, they have an agenda).

Interesting.

[SasaS]

3 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Jesus, a look at the map would show even the mentally challenged Bucha and Axov are anything upto 600 km apart so chances of a squad operating in the others region are remote in the current circumstances.

 

Some people believe one conspiracy theory too many.

They are in the area, as are National Guard (Azov regiment is part of it) which includes several other right wing formations, so that part is not far fetched.

[KMD7]

[Pureblood]

3 minutes ago, KMD7 said:

Hehe. 

[Mudface]

6 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

You know I despise Boris Johnson, yeah?

Yep- the post wasn't aimed at you.

[Captain Turdseye]

What pubs are you lot drinking in where people are slapping one another over disagreements on geopolitics?

 

The biggest danger in my local is knocking over the wrong person’s pint. 

[SasaS]

1 minute ago, Captain Turdseye said:

What pubs are you lot drinking in where people are slapping one another over disagreements on geopolitics?

 

The biggest danger in my local is knocking over the wrong person’s pint. 

It's the Old Bismarck&Monroe.

[Elite]

11 minutes ago, KMD7 said:

Ramble-O

[Pureblood]

6 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:

What pubs are you lot drinking in where people are slapping one another over disagreements on geopolitics?

 

The biggest danger in my local is knocking over the wrong person’s pint. 

The Kebab & Calculator

[Red Phoenix]

24 minutes ago, SasaS said:

And yet I don't feel you question anything you read that confirms your narrative. You quote sources that are quite obviously biased or agenda-driven and take everything they say at face value (you can easily check, just look at the list of news items and articles, if they are all point in the same direction, they have an agenda).

 

I think you have formed your narrative on the crisis in advance, based on, from what I can tell, belief in the necessity of a polycentric world and an idea that the US and NATO are the main threat to its existence. You don't feel comfortable questioning that preexisting narrative because it may force you to reexamine the underlining basic idea (not arguing for or against its validity here) so you desperately cling to sources that you feel confirm the narrative.  This then leads you to either expressing or arguing in favour of marginal viewpoints supported by dubious sources and requiring quite extensive logical acrobatics.

 

And this, Red Phoenix (if that indeed is your real name) is why you think you are ridiculed for daring to go against a mainstrem narrative.

 

(real name is a Mark Steel podcast joke).
 

 

21 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

This is the equivalent of hearing a loud argument between the couple next door, walking into their house where the man who you know to be a violent drunk with a history of domestic violence is passed out in the bedroom in a stupor, the wife is sporting a massive bruise on her face, and saying "well, I'm not going to just blindly believe it could only have been him - maybe she walked into the wall?"

 

21 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Which do you think is more likely? 
 

- The Russian army has committed atrocities after an illegal invasion in which they’ve very likely committed war crimes

 

- Troops have raped, tortured and executed their own people so that (well, I don’t know why).  

 

Yeah I've been following too many dodgy sources obviously.

 

Azov are clearly a top bunch of lads, surely haven't done anything wrong and time will prove this to be the case.

[SasaS]

4 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

 

 

Yeah I've been following too many dodgy sources obviously.

 

Azov are clearly a top bunch of lads, surely haven't done anything wrong and time will prove this to be the case.

 

[Mudface]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/04/world/europe/bucha-ukraine-bodies.html

 

Satellite images show bodies lay in Bucha for weeks, despite Russian claims.

 

 

[Red Phoenix]

2 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

 

It's ok, we have people that think thousands of Ukrainian fascists and neo-Nazis are now not worth talking about and can't have done anything wrong. That Putin and Russian troops should be the only ones focused on for causing war crimes in Ukraine.

 

And this will 99.9999999% turn out to be a bad idea.

[TheHowieLama]

1 minute ago, Red Phoenix said:

That Putin and Russian troops should be the only ones focused on for causing war crimes in Ukraine.

 

I just want to make sure because you have never answered the question directly.

Do you think there have been staged war crimes in Ukraine by Ukrainian forces?

 

 

[Rico1304]

3 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

It's ok, we have people that think thousands of Ukrainian fascists and neo-Nazis are now not worth talking about and can't have done anything wrong. That Putin and Russian troops should be the only ones focused on for causing war crimes in Ukraine.

 

And this will 99.9999999% turn out to be a bad idea.

You are all over the fucking place.  No one, at any point has said what you’ve posted.  
 

If there were credible pictures of Russian soldiers being harmed I’d think that was likely.  You know with the populace being a bit pissed off.  But, why would they raped, torture and execute their own fucking people? 

[Mudface]

4 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

It's ok, we have people that think thousands of Ukrainian fascists and neo-Nazis are now not worth talking about and can't have done anything wrong. That Putin and Russian troops should be the only ones focused on for causing war crimes in Ukraine.

 

And this will 99.9999999% turn out to be a bad idea.

They invaded the fucking country and have been shelling towns and cities for weeks, you mad bastard.

[Red Shift]

2 hours ago, bossy said:

Well, discuss the reasons then. Or do you think it only happened because of the West? I haven’t seen anything from the doubters where they repeatedly post about Putin being a bad guy, but plenty that posits Ukraine and the West as such. The lack of balance suggests that really, you’re ex Marxism Today subscribers or Donald Trump Q types. 

Briefly, I hold and express the opinion that The Bear was baited.

Whatever the outcome, his (Putin’s) decision to invade was in direct response to the ongoing political destabilisation in Ukraine by hard line nationalists who have undermined Zelensky’s authority as president (including threats on his life, and threats on the lives of his advisers) which explains his (Zelensky’s) about turn in fulfilling his election mandate in 2019, of de-escalating the civil war that has seen thousands of deaths since 2014.

[Red Phoenix]

7 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

I just want to make sure because you have never answered the question directly.

Do you think there have been staged war crimes in Ukraine by Ukrainian forces?

 

I'm not sure what's been staged or not but war crimes, yes definitely.

 

5 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

You are all over the fucking place.  No one, at any point has said what you’ve posted.  
 

If there were credible pictures of Russian soldiers being harmed I’d think that was likely.  You know with the populace being a bit pissed off.  But, why would they raped, torture and execute their own fucking people? 

 

5 minutes ago, Mudface said:

They invaded the fucking country and have been shelling towns and cities for weeks, you mad bastard.

 

Do any of the three of you think that thousands of fascists and neo-Nazis on the Ukrainian side haven't caused any war crimes? Just wondering.

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

I'm not sure what's been staged or not but war crimes, yes definitely.

 

 

 

Do any of the three of you think that thousands of fascists and neo-Nazis in Ukraine haven't caused any war crimes? Just wondering.

Which war crimes. The ones you’ve made up in your head or these ones that have happened? 

[Mudface]

1 minute ago, Red Phoenix said:

Do any of the three of you think that thousands of fascists and neo-Nazis in Ukraine haven't caused any war crimes? Just wondering.

Yes, although you can just call them Russian soldiers to save a bit of typing.

[ManéMan]

Hope we get a chance to see Putin in there, but by the time the back log of the other culprits are caught and tried it might be too late.

[Red Phoenix]

We know Putin is bad, he's invaded Ukraine that started this war off and we know that Russians will have carried out war crimes.

 

There's also what's surely thousands of fascists and neo-Nazis on the Ukrainian side as well. And they'll have carried out war crimes too.

 

We're not seeing this widely reported though because we've been arming and training them and our politicians and media are covering for them.

 

They're the new "moderate rebels."

[Pureblood]

More sanctions will work because the sanctions already imposed have been a roaring success. 

[TheHowieLama]

4 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

There's also what's surely thousands of fascists and neo-Nazis on the Ukrainian side as well. And they'll have carried out war crimes too.

 

On Ukranian citizens?

[SasaS]

2 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

We know Putin is bad, he's invaded Ukraine that started this war off and we know that Russians will have carried out war crimes.

 

There's also what's surely thousands of fascists and neo-Nazis on the Ukrainian side as well. And they'll have carried out war crimes too.

 

We're not seeing this though because we've been arming and training them and our politicians and media are covering for them.

 

They're the new "moderate rebels."

They have actually been complaining (Azov in Mariupol - am I the only on actually watching and reading their media, of all of you anti-Nazi fighters?) that they have been branded as Nazis and this is why they didn't receive NATO training (or as much they would have wanted).

 

And there were some not very nice videos with Russian POWs.