Keir Starmer

[Jack the Sipper]

 

3 hours ago, Arniepie said:

I'll be honest and say this narrative that the millions of people who did believe in corbyns plans for a faster society, are now some sort of lunatic fringe, quite bemusing.

Especially considering many of the policies put foreward in the conference were not a million miles away from corbyns own.

It's possible to belive that corbyn would have been much less of a disaster than that lying cunt,whilst still wanting Labour to wallop the tories at the next ge.

 

There's a big distinction to be made between the millions of people who, like me, voted for the Labour Party led by Corbyn, and the thousands of acolytes who, almost three years after he resigned as leader, are still bitter, to the point of comparing Starmer to Hitler and his party to Nazis (or, at best, as no different from the Tories), and do what they can to undermine Labour, even whilst they're seeing first-hand what the alternative is.

 

I would say they are some sort of lunatic fringe.

[Bjornebye]

6 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

 

There's a big distinction to be made between the millions of people who, like me, voted for the Labour Party led by Corbyn, and the thousands of acolytes who, almost three years after he resigned as leader, are still bitter, to the point of comparing Starmer to Hitler and his party to Nazis (or, at best, as no different from the Tories), and do what they can to undermine Labour, even whilst they're seeing first-hand what the alternative is.

 

I would say they are some sort of lunatic fringe.

I think there is a lot of bitterness because of how Corbyn was shafted. Very cloak and dagger within Labour as the evidence keeps showing (the either double downing on the lies or completely ignoring being found out rankles heavy)  so the trust in this Labour is gone for many. I understand it. I'll still vote Labour. 

 

I'm not a Corbyn 'fan-boy' but I'll defend him against the lies/smear/slander (in the words of that lying manc wannabe calculator bullying cunt) until my dying breath. 

[Section_31]

33 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I think there is a lot of bitterness because of how Corbyn was shafted. Very cloak and dagger within Labour as the evidence keeps showing (the either double downing on the lies or completely ignoring being found out rankles heavy)  so the trust in this Labour is gone for many. I understand it. I'll still vote Labour. 

 

I'm not a Corbyn 'fan-boy' but I'll defend him against the lies/smear/slander (in the words of that lying manc wannabe calculator bullying cunt) until my dying breath. 

 

It's the way the argument is framed  that grinds my gears.

 

Labour leaders before Corbyn:

 

Kinnock, Blair, Brown (not Miliband as much)

 

And after

 

Starmer

 

ALL CUNTS/fascists and seemingly not 'proper' Labour.

 

Thousands, tens of thousands of people JOIN Labour to vote for Corbyn as Labour leader. The most rebellious MP in the party who has frequently defied the party, well before Blair and chums were anywhere near it. People flock from socialist groups, Greens etc having previously had little or no interest in Labour for quite some time. 

 

Another organisation called Momentum is set up which is essentially loyal to him, personally. It duplicates a lot of Labour polling and canvassing activity, them when his heir apparent is chosen (Long Bailey) all that information is made available to her, and not the other candidates.

 

Despite all this, Starmer wins - comfortably - having been voted for by LABOUR MEMBERS.

 

Despite this. He's effectively placed 'on notice' by Momentum and various sites like the Canary, Skwarkbox, Owen Jones and the rest of them. 

 

They make a big deal of the fact he was knighted (no mention of the fact he went to a comp, unlike Corbyn - who was privately schooled). Or the fact he was a lawyer (no mention of the fact Long Bailey was a solicitor who - rather than prosecuting rape gangs, was working on the selloff of NHS property via the PFI scandal).

 

When Starmer starts putting his own agenda in place, people leave en masse again (presumably many who'd joined to just vote for Corbyn) and start endlessly moaning about everything he says and does. 

 

They don't form their own party, they don't start a new movement - instead they decide to agitate, endlessly, even if it means consigning the working class people they claim to love for another decade of Tory social and economic massacre.

 

I think a lot of these people always need an 'enemy'. I suspect if Corbyn had won in 2017, his tenure would have been absolutely battered with infighting at every level. The Momentum People's front vs  the people's front of Momentum. The pro Avocado faction of the new socialist Kashmir movement vs the donkey jackets in council meetings brigade. You'd never be 'left' enough for some. 

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

It's the way the argument is framed  that grinds my gears.

 

Labour leaders before Corbyn:

 

Kinnock, Blair, Brown (not Miliband as much)

 

And after

 

Starmer

 

ALL CUNTS.

 

Thousands, tens of thousands of people JOIN Labour to vote for Corbyn as Labour. The most rebellious MP in the party who has frequently defied the party, well before Blair and chums were anywhere near it. People flock from socialist groups, Greens etc having previously had little or no interest in Labour for quite some time. 

 

Another organisation called Momentum is set up which is essentially loyal to him, personally. It duplicates a lot of Labour polling and canvassing activity, them when his heir apparent is chosen (Long Bailey) all that information is made available to her, and not the other candidates.

 

Despite all this, Starmer wins - comfortably - having been voted for by LABOUR MEMBERS.

 

Despite this. He's effectively placed 'on notice' by Momentum and various sites like the Canary, Skwarkbox, Owen Jones and the rest of them. 

 

They make a big deal of the fact he was knighted (no mention of the fact he went to a comp, unlike Corbyn - who was privately schooled). Or the fact he was a lawyer (no mention of the fact Long Bailey was a solicitor who - rather than prosecuting rape gangs, was working on the selloff of NHS property via the PFI scandal).

 

When Starmer starts putting his own agenda in place, people leave en masse again (presumably many who'd joined to just vote for Corbyn) and start endlessly moaning about everything he says and does. 

 

They don't form their own party, they don't start a new movement - instead they decide to agitate, endlessly, even if it means consigning the working class people they claim to love for another decade of Tory social and economic massacre.

 

I think a lot of these people always need an 'enemy'. I suspect if Corbyn had won in 2017, his tenure would have been absolutely battered with infighting at every level. The Momentum People's front vs  the people's front of Momentum. The pro Avocado faction of the new socialist Kashmir movement vs the donkey jackets in council meetings brigade. You'd never be 'left' enough for some. 

I don't disagree with much of that but Corbyn could have been a cataclysmic change to this country and the equality we all seek was an actual possibility. The powers that be shit themselves. 

 

 

Ask yourself what utopia would be in your life then tell me it's not closer to Corbyn than any of the other fuckers.... 

 

Anyone who voted Corbyn who is now disrupting the movement against the Tories is a tit. Agreed. 

 

Corbyn was the "enemy" of people in power and the gullible cunt brigade lapped media smears up. 

 

#ItWasAScam 

[Section_31]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

I don't disagree with much of that but Corbyn could have been a cataclysmic change to this country and the equality we all seek was an actual possibility. The powers that be shit themselves. 

 

 

Ask yourself what utopia would be in your life then tell me it's not closer to Corbyn than any of the other fuckers.... 

 

Anyone who voted Corbyn who is now disrupting the movement against the Tories is a tit. Agreed. 

 

#ItWasAScam 

 

Yeah I don't disagree at all with  you. I'd have happily had Corbyn as PM, McDonnell especially is my kind of politics. 

 

I just can't be doing with any efforts against Labour at the moment when the enemy is literally at the gates. It just baffles me on every level. 

[Bjornebye]

Just now, Section_31 said:

 

Yeah I don't disagree at all with  you. I'd have happily had Corbyn as PM, McDonnell especially is my kind of politics. 

 

I just can't be doing with any efforts against Labour at the moment when the enemy is literally at the gates. It just baffles me on every level. 

We agree then. 

 

 

 

 

[sir roger]

I think you are ignoring the fact that a goodly proportion of lefties ( like myself ) believed Starmer's blatant lies about unity, only to find the only thing he seems passionate about is chucking them out of the party whether he has reason / evidence of misdoings or not. He had a fund of good will but decided he didn't need / want it, so can't really complain if these people are not happy.

 

As for the Momentum stuff, they have changed all of the principals and are not particularly linked to Corbyn now, and even when they were they were nowhere near as insidious as Progress or Labour First ( I am sure these august bodies were falling over themselves to help Long-Bailey ) who strangely never ever get mentioned or criticised , presumably because they are on the right and are entwined around the party machine like Japanese Knotwood.

 

I am happy enough to be out of the party, but I can imagine a lot of people who have been in it longer than Starmer and done a lot more for it than Starmer,  are not too pleased at being called the enemy.

 

 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Nothing unduly controversial from Reeves, there. 
 

I’m pro the UK being a signatory of the refugee convention and I believe we should offer sanctuary to anybody who needs it. But, while it’s not one of my biggest concerns, I don’t find it controversial to propose that we should probably seek to remove those who don’t qualify for asylum. 
 

But, for me, Reeves is guilty of what the majority of politicians do when it comes to immigration. Using it as a political football whilst appearing to have little knowledge of the system.
 

It’s simply not as simple as somebody’s claim being refused then jumping to sending them back to their country of origin. That’s borrowing the rhetoric of the right leaning newspapers like the Mail and the shitty vid pops you see on the news - the “just send them back!” nonsense. 
 

We’re talking about the Tories here. The same Tories who wanted to deport non-Rwandan National immigrants to Rwanda to win votes. If it was as straight forward as just “send them back home” doesn’t Reeves think that the Tories would’ve already done that by now? 
 

A person’s case may technically be over but there can still be many obstacles to removing them to their country of origin - such as actually determining with enough certainty what their genuine country of origin is (disputed nationality cases - why would another country willingly accept a person back from the UK if it can’t be shown or sufficiently evidenced that they are from that other country?) or, having established their nationality, getting the relevant travel documentation issued to return the person back to their country of origin (which can be more difficult for some countries than others - some countries may adopt a “well, you fucked off and likely said bad things about our country so you could stay in the UK, so we don’t want you back!” attitude (China) and can be very slow or obstructive when it comes to issuing these necessary travel documents. 

Plus, there can also be instances when a person’s claim has been refused, meaning that they are specifically and individually not at risk of persecution in their home country and, therefore, don’t get recognised as a refugee, but the general state of security/conditions in their country of origin means that nobody is being removed to that country until the situation improves (recent examples of this include Iran, Sudan and Syria). 
 

What Reeves has said is problematic for me in one of two ways. She either knows all of the above but decided to play dumb and try and score political points instead. Or, she doesn’t know all of the above, but still decided to try and score political points even though she didn’t really know what she was talking about. 

[Arniepie]

1 hour ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

 

There's a big distinction to be made between the millions of people who, like me, voted for the Labour Party led by Corbyn, and the thousands of acolytes who, almost three years after he resigned as leader, are still bitter, to the point of comparing Starmer to Hitler and his party to Nazis (or, at best, as no different from the Tories), and do what they can to undermine Labour, even whilst they're seeing first-hand what the alternative is.

 

I would say they are some sort of lunatic fringe.

I'd argue that the ones comparing Starmer to Hitler are very small in number.

Even the much maligned Owen Jones was praising him the other day.

I think it's more this general attitude of consigning everything about that entire period to the dustbin,which is quite troubling.

A lot his policies made perfect sense and he certainly strived for a more equal society,than we have under this shower of cunts.

 

[Jack the Sipper]

 

I posted the above on the morning that Starmer was elected leader. I didn't think it was an especially bold prediction then to suggest that some of the more 'enthusiastic' Corbyn supporters were never going to give him a chance. I would have been pleasantly surprised if they had given the mood music leading up to Starmer's election. Yet, from that day to this, all I ever hear from Corbyn's supporters is how they were going to give him a chance, how they were ready to get behind him, and how it was all Tory Keith's fault that they couldn't.

 

Am I fucking Nostradamus here, or are some of Corbyn's supporters being a tad disingenuous?

[Creator Supreme]

1 minute ago, Jack the Sipper said:

Am I fucking Nostradamus here, or are some of Corbyn's supporters being a tad disingenuous?

About as disingenuous as those on the Labour right during the 2017 election!

[Jack the Sipper]

3 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

About as disingenuous as those on the Labour right during the 2017 election!

 

Yeah, great, be the better man and all that...

[Creator Supreme]

Just now, Jack the Sipper said:

 

Yeah, great, be the better man and all that...

Just like the Labour right were!

[Gnasher]

14 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

I posted the above on the morning that Starmer was elected leader. I didn't think it was an especially bold prediction then to suggest that some of the more 'enthusiastic' Corbyn supporters were never going to give him a chance. I would have been pleasantly surprised if they had given the mood music leading up to Starmer's election. Yet, from that day to this, all I ever hear from Corbyn's supporters is how they were going to give him a chance, how they were ready to get behind him, and how it was all Tory Keith's fault that they couldn't.

 

Am I fucking Nostradamus here, or are some of Corbyn's supporters being a tad disingenuous?

When the Labour leadership kicked Corbyn out of the party on a whim after all the promises of unity they were asking for trouble. Maybe it was their plan, I don't know, this Al Jazzera doc does show a certain element of the Labour Party to be less than honourable.

 

I thought Corbyn should have stepped down 6 months or so before the last election when it was obvious the game was up and Labour were heading for a massive defeat, so I'm not in this so called mystical cult.I do find the way Corbyns been treated and slured by the Labour Party since he stood down distasteful and disingenuous though, but there you are.

 

[Creator Supreme]

I just love the way the Labour left are expected to be the better man, but the same is never expected of the Labour right.

 

Which is why, although I desperately want the Tories to get kicked out by Labour at the next election, I will never vote Labour again with the exception of it being required in the event of tactical voting situation to keep a Tory / Kipper / BNP headbanger out!

 

This is highly unlikely in my constituency anyway!

[Arniepie]

20 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

I posted the above on the morning that Starmer was elected leader. I didn't think it was an especially bold prediction then to suggest that some of the more 'enthusiastic' Corbyn supporters were never going to give him a chance. I would have been pleasantly surprised if they had given the mood music leading up to Starmer's election. Yet, from that day to this, all I ever hear from Corbyn's supporters is how they were going to give him a chance, how they were ready to get behind him, and how it was all Tory Keith's fault that they couldn't.

 

Am I fucking Nostradamus here, or are some of Corbyn's supporters being a tad disingenuous?

I think what angered a lot of people was that he came in on a ticket of uniting the party and clearly this wasn't even attempted.

Though it's arguable if it was in any way possible. 

[Arniepie]

8 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

When the Labour leadership kicked Corbyn out of the party on a whim after all the promises of unity they were asking for trouble. Maybe it was their plan, I don't know, this Al Jazzera doc does show a certain element of the Labour Party to be less than honourable.

 

I thought Corbyn should have stepped down 6 months or so before the last election when it was obvious the game was up and Labour were heading for a massive defeat, so I'm not in this so called mystical cult.I do find the way Corbyns been treated and slured by the Labour Party since he stood down distasteful and disingenuous though, but there you are.

 

Weren't the polls predicting a close run thing in 2019?

[Walter Sobchak]

10 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

When the Labour leadership kicked Corbyn out of the party on a whim after all the promises of unity they were asking for trouble. Maybe it was their plan, I don't know, this Al Jazzera doc does show a certain element of the Labour Party to be less than honourable.

 

I thought Corbyn should have stepped down 6 months or so before the last election when it was obvious the game was up and Labour were heading for a massive defeat, so I'm not in this so called mystical cult.I do find the way Corbyns been treated and slured by the Labour Party since he stood down distasteful and disingenuous though, but there you are.

 

He was kicked out because he didn’t apologise for the actions of his office towards Jewish members. 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

1 minute ago, Walter Sobchak said:

He was kicked out because he didn’t apologise for the actions of his office towards Jewish members. 

Really? 

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, Arniepie said:

Weren't the polls predicting a close run thing in 2019?

 

Not for some months.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_United_Kingdom_general_election

[Numero Veinticinco]

They were as unified at conference as any point I’ve ever seen. Some of you live in a parallel reality. 

[Walter Sobchak]

6 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Really? 

Yes

[Gnasher]

14 minutes ago, Walter Sobchak said:

He was kicked out because he didn’t apologise for the actions of his office towards Jewish members. 

Offically. That ignores the new evidence showing him and others were victims of unfounded slurs. He was also unjustly labeled a racist. The recent Al Jazzera doc and the Forde report does not shine a clean light on the heads at the top of the Labour Party. 

 

Anyway It's been done now, imo I'd reinstate his membership and let him represent his constituents in Islington from the back benches as he has since the 80s. 

[Gnasher]

15 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Weren't the polls predicting a close run thing in 2019?

Nah Labour were looking at defeat towards the end. I thought a change wouldve been for the best.

[Arniepie]

6 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Nah Labour were staring at defeat towards the end. I thought a change wouldve been for the best.

I thought he deserved another crack after 2017 and he still seemed to maintain a high level of popularity (remember that footage of him getting mobbed in Sheffield)

Fuck me I can still remember that Friday Morning after the election.

Beyond grim