The New Leader of the Labour Party

[aRdja]

2 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Voting Tory is a stupid idea too. I can see why they did it though, they saw parliament as having taken democracy away from them by not respecting the vote, no matter how stupid we think the vote was. We should've just left the fucking EU in the first place.

100%. Leave represents change for these people, and Labour should’ve identified that and used it to their advantage. There was a YouGov poll like maybe a month before the election, showing more people would rather leave the EU with no deal rather than go through yet another referendum.

[Captain Turdseye]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

I think people look at their own lives and make the decision.  You can’t tell them it’s wrong.  You can disagree but you can’t tell them what to do. 
 

loads on here are so out of touch they have to blame something else.  The echo chamber of twitter and only listening to the same people doesn’t reflect the reality.  Noam Chomsky isn’t going to solve this.  Telling people to listen to him won’t work.  

 

You're wrong. Shut your whore mouth. 

[moof]

1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

I think people look at their own lives and make the decision.  You can’t tell them it’s wrong.  You can disagree but you can’t tell them what to do. 
 

loads on here are so out of touch they have to blame something else.  The echo chamber of twitter and only listening to the same people doesn’t reflect the reality.  Noam Chomsky isn’t going to solve this.  Telling people to listen to him won’t work.  

Of course old mining towns voting Tory because of brexit is “wrong” in the short, medium and long term. It might be what the majority of people who voted in those places want, but it’s still wrong and stupid. 
 

And yes, more people listening to the likes of Chomsky would help greatly. Manufacturing Consent should be required reading in every school. 

[Tony Moanero]

6 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

A quick look at the literacy rates show they’ve not changed (99%) for 30 years.  
 

It does show a certain arrogance that you know best and people are too dumb to think for themselves. Maybe the answer not letting them vote at all?  As what would happen if they were educated to the level you deem appropriate and they still didn’t agree with you? 

Plenty of people don’t think think for themselves though, do they? Herd mentality. Sheep blindly following the flock.

[Jarvinja Ilnow]

I like Lisa Nandy but, as someone said earlier about Angela Raynor, a broad Northern accent would probably count against her.

[sir roger]

23 minutes ago, Jarvinja Ilnow said:

I like Lisa Nandy but, as someone said earlier about Angela Raynor, a broad Northern accent would probably count against her.

Not in the north I would imagine

[cloggypop]

33 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

Plenty of people don’t think think for themselves though, do they? Herd mentality. Sheep blindly following the flock.

I blame podcasts 

[Rico1304]

6 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

I blame podcasts 

More blame on free loaders IMO. 

[Moo]

44 minutes ago, Jarvinja Ilnow said:

I like Lisa Nandy but, as someone said earlier about Angela Raynor, a broad Northern accent would probably count against her.

Nandy's accent is not as strong as Rayner's and she enunciates well, she'd be fine.  I think Nandy is a brilliant, considered speaker on a low key or one on one basis, not sure how she'd fare in the pantomime of PMQ's. 

[Dougie Do'ins]

Labour leadership race threatens party civil war as MPs fear ‘continuity Corbyn’ figure

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leadership-contest-corbyn-rebecca-long-bailey-emily-thornberry-a9247966.html

[moof]

You get the feeling this is going to get very painful and very messy

[Dougie Do'ins]

3 minutes ago, moof said:

You get the feeling this is going to get very painful and very messy

Doesn't it always ?

[The Guest]

Lisa Nandy is a complete knobhead who talks a lot without actually saying anything.  She spent the last 6 months slagging Corbyn off without pointing out that she disagreed with the right wing liberals of the party and agreed with Corbyn’a position on Brexit.

 

The problem for labour is that the main issue in this country for what is obviously a majority of people is immigration.  Both parties ignored it for decades.  Despite it not being a left/right issue what’s developed over time is the view that Labour are pro immigration and the conservatives are anti immigration.

 

We seen in the latest general election that the country is willing to get absolutely battered by right wing Tory policies and sell out the NHS etc just to curb immigration.  When these people like Nandy talk about reconnecting with traditional labour voters they never actually mention any specifics.  The leadership of the party needs to decide what’s more important.  For too long the country has been told that immigration is necessary and it’s got to the point that a lot of people just don’t believe that anymore.  Until they talk about giving the country a say on this matter then they won’t get the votes to enact a socialist agenda.

 

Personally I don’t really care about immigration too much.  It’s brought some fantastic culture to the UK and enabled movement the opposite way for a lot of people.  The reality is though the vast majority have no intention of ever moving and working in another country but then have to deal with the impacts of immigration coming the other way.

[Moo]

1 minute ago, The Guest said:

Lisa Nandy is a complete knobhead who talks a lot without actually saying anything.  She spent the last 6 months slagging Corbyn off without pointing out that she disagreed with the right wing liberals of the party and agreed with Corbyn’a position on Brexit.

 

The problem for labour is that the main issue in this country for what is obviously a majority of people is immigration.  Both parties ignored it for decades.  Despite it not being a left/right issue what’s developed over time is the view that Labour are pro immigration and the conservatives are anti immigration.

 

We seen in the latest general election that the country is willing to get absolutely battered by right wing Tory policies and sell out the NHS etc just to curb immigration.  When these people like Nandy talk about reconnecting with traditional labour voters they never actually mention any specifics.  The leadership of the party needs to decide what’s more important.  For too long the country has been told that immigration is necessary and it’s got to the point that a lot of people just don’t believe that anymore.  Until they talk about giving the country a say on this matter then they won’t get the votes to enact a socialist agenda.

 

Personally I don’t really care about immigration too much.  It’s brought some fantastic culture to the UK and enabled movement the opposite way for a lot of people.  The reality is though the vast majority have no intention of ever moving and working in another country but then have to deal with the impacts of immigration coming the other way.

I heard Nandy say a number of times that she didn't agree with her constituents, who wanted Brexit, but that it was her job to represent them and try to get them the best deal, I rarely felt it was a "me vs Corbyn" thing.  I found her honesty refreshing, and she was 100% correct about losing traditional Labour voters even if she didn't put forward a solution to that, but then no one did as general policy was cast aside by everyone for 3 years due to Brexit. 

[moof]

Wasn’t she a very vocal Owen Smith supporter? Displays a... questionable... sense of judgement 

[Numero Veinticinco]

14 minutes ago, moof said:

You get the feeling this is going to get very painful and very messy

Yeah, this isn’t going to be pretty. It could even end with a split in the party. It might actually need that. Either way, now is a good time. There’s very little the opposition can do to stop the Tories from doing whatever they like. Might as well use that time to rebuild, considering it needs to be done anyway.

[Anubis]

15 minutes ago, Moo said:

I heard Nandy say a number of times that she didn't agree with her constituents, who wanted Brexit, but that it was her job to represent them and try to get them the best deal, I rarely felt it was a "me vs Corbyn" thing.  I found her honesty refreshing, and she was 100% correct about losing traditional Labour voters even if she didn't put forward a solution to that, but then no one did as general policy was cast aside by everyone for 3 years due to Brexit. 

 

Nandy is no stranger to a bit of backstabbing. She was a prominent part of the staged resignations that led to the ‘chicken coup’ attempt that threw up Owen Smith as a candidate. Although in fairness to Smith I can’t help but think he was Watson’s patsy.

[Dr Nowt]

30 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Yeah, this isn’t going to be pretty. It could even end with a split in the party. It might actually need that.

Been thinking the same myself.

 

The two sides, for want of a less crude approximation, will be no more easy to reconcile over the way forward from here as the respective Remain and Leave core of Labour voters have been in this election.

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

1 hour ago, The Guest said:

Lisa Nandy is a complete knobhead who talks a lot without actually saying anything.  She spent the last 6 months slagging Corbyn off without pointing out that she disagreed with the right wing liberals of the party and agreed with Corbyn’a position on Brexit.

 

The problem for labour is that the main issue in this country for what is obviously a majority of people is immigration.  Both parties ignored it for decades.  Despite it not being a left/right issue what’s developed over time is the view that Labour are pro immigration and the conservatives are anti immigration.

 

We seen in the latest general election that the country is willing to get absolutely battered by right wing Tory policies and sell out the NHS etc just to curb immigration.  When these people like Nandy talk about reconnecting with traditional labour voters they never actually mention any specifics.  The leadership of the party needs to decide what’s more important.  For too long the country has been told that immigration is necessary and it’s got to the point that a lot of people just don’t believe that anymore.  Until they talk about giving the country a say on this matter then they won’t get the votes to enact a socialist agenda.

 

Personally I don’t really care about immigration too much.  It’s brought some fantastic culture to the UK and enabled movement the opposite way for a lot of people.  The reality is though the vast majority have no intention of ever moving and working in another country but then have to deal with the impacts of immigration coming the other way.

Wait until the Europeans all get out and the NHS is fucked further, the racist fuckers are gonna drive that to a whole new level.

it is right for the left to stand up and support immigration, what it should be doing is pointing out the fucking lies much more clearly and much more vehemently, they need to stand with immigrants, and point out the value they add to society.

[moof]

4 minutes ago, arthur friedenreich said:

Wait until the Europeans all get out and the NHS is fucked further, the racist fuckers are gonna drive that to a whole new level.

it is right for the left to stand up and support immigration, what it should be doing is pointing out the fucking lies much more clearly and much more vehemently, they need to stand with immigrants, and point out the value they add to society.

100%. One of my fears with all the rhetoric about labour needing to “win back it’s heartlands” and “appeal to working class leave voters” is that it’s a code for “be more racist”

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

3 minutes ago, moof said:

100%. One of my fears with all the rhetoric about labour needing to “win back it’s heartlands” and “appeal to working class leave voters” is that it’s a code for “be more racist”

Ah you’ll be voting blue labour then! What the fuck, get out yer cunts. Labour, we stand together (except for you lot, you stand over there in the second class column).

[moof]

1 minute ago, arthur friedenreich said:

Ah you’ll be voting blue labour then! What the fuck, get out yer cunts. Labour, we stand together (except for you lot, you stand over there in the second class column).

Prefuckingcisely!

[Strontium]

15 minutes ago, arthur friedenreich said:

it is right for the left to stand up and support immigration, what it should be doing is pointing out the fucking lies much more clearly and much more vehemently, they need to stand with immigrants, and point out the value they add to society.

 

There was only one leader saying that in the TV debates, sadly, and it wasn't Corbyn. 

[Jose Jones]

2 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

There was only one leader saying that in the TV debates, sadly, and it wasn't Corbyn. 

Farage, yeah?

[Jairzinho]

Caroline Lucas.