Man City - the new bitters?

[gkmacca]

57 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

Who's said that, Samuel?

 

Fat wanker!

 

His basic position appears to be: those nice, kind, decent people, who just happen to come from places where other people do the odd nasty thing, have bought a few PL clubs and made the whole league much more exciting as a result, but these old entitled English clubs don't like it and so are being beastly to them. That's it. And he actually seems to have convinced himself that's the whole story. Sadder still, some of the loons who read his drivel appear to accept it. 

[Megadrive Man]

1 hour ago, Creator Supreme said:

Who's said that, Samuel?

 

Fat wanker!

 

 

https://archive.is/2023.02.07-185105/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/yes-manchester-city-broke-the-rule-but-the-rules-protect-the-old-elite-ftr25q2lp

[Vincent Vega]

This podcast is an interesting listen from Rob Harris, Martyn Ziegler and Tariq Panja who have all been happy to report on City’s unique way of operating for years.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Another one from three Irish journalists that I haven’t got round to listening to yet. Ken Earlys is usually very good, and Miguel Delaney isn’t afraid to share his thoughts.

 

[Vincent Vega]

I found this an interesting read from Ian Herbert who writes for the Mail, especially the bits I've bolded.

 

IAN HERBERT: Grubby emails, an army of lawyers and a flagrant contempt for rules... When will Man City take a long, hard look at themselves and realise how deeply unattractive they've become?

 

•  Man City have been charged with over 100 alleged breaches of regulations
•  Charges relate to the period from 2009-10 all the way up to the present season
•  Club have faced questions over their financial dealings for a number of years

 

By IAN HERBERT FOR THE DAILY MAIL

PUBLISHED: 22:00, 6 February 2023 | UPDATED: 10:51, 7 February 2023

 

Where along the line, you have to ask, will Manchester City take a long, hard look at themselves, put aside their sense of victimhood, and realise how deeply unattractive they have become?

 

Not because this is the third time they have been charged with secretly channelling extra Abu Dhabi cash into their coffers, through fake sponsorships, to dodge financial spending rules.

 

Not because paying manager Roberto Mancini twice — once on the books, once off the books — was a joke, given how deeply unpopular he had become inside the club when they finally got shot. But because of the flagrant contempt they show for the system, the rules and the administrators whose competitions they are so eager to play in and dominate.

 

That was laughable. So impossible has it been to extract the necessary documents, that the Premier League were forced to go to court last year and launch an arbitration process to get them.

 

City employed barristers to challenge that process, arguing that the arbitrators would be biased against them. A judge ruled against them. City employed barristers to challenge this publisher’s right to report that judge’s conclusions and to be in court when a decision of publication was being made — even though we had undertaken not to publish anything from it. The judge ruled against them.

 

It was Lord Justice Males, in that case brought by Associated Newspapers, who saw through City’s obfuscation and backsliding, in a case which was then heading towards its third year. ‘It is surprising, and a matter of legitimate public concern, that so little progress has been made after two and a half years — during which, it may be noted, the club has twice been crowned as Premier League champions,’ the judge said.

 

When a cache of emails published by Football Leaks in 2018 led UEFA, for the second time in five years, to charge City with deliberately inflating sponsorship deals, the club said the evidence was ‘incomplete’ and invalid.

 

It certainly seemed quite exhaustive. The emails included City’s chief executive Ferran Soriano’s missive, suggesting that the club raise cash to avoid an FFP breach in 2013 by getting sponsors to pay bonuses for winning the FA Cup — even though City had lost to Wigan. 

 

That was the match which saw Mancini sacked, requiring a £9.9million pay-off, which would blow another hole in attempts to pass FFP. In another leaked email, non-executive City director Simon Pearce suggested ‘an additional amount of AD (Abu Dhabi) sponsorship revenues that covers this gap’.

 

City lawyer Simon Cliff insisted that the whole commercial deals operation be called ‘Project Longbow’ in tribute ‘to the weapon the English used to beat the French at Crecy and Agincourt’. 

 

That’s how City felt about UEFA and their rules. And there was the obscure-sounding company called ‘Fordham’ to which the club sold their image rights income stream to earn themselves a £24.5m lump sum needed to pass the same financial sustainability rules. Despite selling off that revenue stream, it transpired the club were actually earning from it.

 

The Fordham story will perhaps seem arcane and dry but it was fundamental to City’s attempts to comply with the rules set out for any teams wishing to compete in the Champions League. 

 

When I wrote it, in 2017, the full force of City’s wrath was unleashed. A demand from a specialist internet law firm that it be removed, that an apology for it be published and that I tweet out that apology.

 

It would have been an unprecedented level of ‘contrition’. But our detailed 1,500-word defence of the story was sent by return. We heard no more from City or their lawyers on the matter. 

 

Eighteen months later, the Football Leaks cache showed that we actually had only half of the story. City’s owners, the Abu Dhabi United Group, were in fact bankrolling Fordham, according to the leaks, as a way of paying part of the players’ wages. Not only were City boosting their income against the rules but reducing their headline wage bill as they did so.

 

The leaked emails saw City charged by UEFA four years ago and left facing a two-year Champions League ban. They successfully appealed to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, which found that the alleged offences took place too far in the past to be investigated, under UEFA’s statute of limitation. City were still fined the best part of £9m for what CAS called ‘obstruction of the investigations’.

 

The consequences were minimal when they breached UEFA FFP rules in 2014, too: a £49m cap on spending in the next transfer window, a Champions League wage cap and four players fewer than everyone else in their squad for that season’s competition.

 

There will be no statute of limitation at the Premier League’s independent commission. There will be no recourse to CAS if the decision goes against City.

 

The Premier League are under pressure from their 19 other clubs to apply utmost rigour to this —and most of all Liverpool, already nursing a grievance having run City so close for so long. Those clubs have complied with FFP, cohering with the view that if you play someone’s competition, you abide by their rules — whatever your views on them might be. City are confident of legal success, as they always are. 

 

They are sceptical of the process, as they always are. They were quick to note yesterday that the timing of the charges ahead of this week’s Government white paper on football governance was likely to be used by the Premier League as evidence of it being able to deal with governance issues itself.

 

The next set of machinations will probably drag out long beyond Pep Guardiola’s tenure, as City’s lawyers will comb over every inch of the Premier League’s case. ‘They are going to mount a very robust defence,’ says Liverpool University’s Kieran Maguire.

 

Some would say the reputation of City and their owners are now on the line. Others would say that the grubby emails, the army of lawyers and the steadfast reluctance to disclose the documents to those who investigate have left it irredeemably tarnished already.

[Mook]

Fucking state of this...

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

I see the fat cunt has thrown his hat into the ring saying FFP is there to protect Liverpool & Manchester United. 

 

And he'd be correct too. And it's there to protect City. FFP is there to protect all clubs from irresponsible owners who wish to spend money that outstrips credible income streams and can survive when dick swinging owners when they get board and pull their financial support. Of course he probably means it's there to protect our status, while that is more a symptom than the cause of ffp. 

 

59 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Do you see Juventus as cheats?

I'm not even 1% interested in Italian football. My view is their entire system has always been corrupt and has zero sporting integrity. Singling out one team feels a bit like trying to distinguish which Tory is the biggest cunt. 

[razor]

Laws are laws, but interpretation of them, and resultant consequences always leave wriggle room.

 

So the Premier League have got some big decisions to make if and when they find the club guilty of at least SOME of the charges.  Which ones they find conclusively and which ones they don't declare conclusive will be an indicator of which way they go.

 

At all times in the back of their minds will be litigation, counter-suits etc.

 

To strip City of past titles will mean expunging probably the greatest single moment of the Premier League.  That Aguero moment has been on permanent rotation for 10 years or whatever it is, and the drama of that moment will no doubt be claimed as one of the strongest selling points of their product.

 

We are like Mohammad Ali.  We will always be the greatest.  Man Utd are like Mike Tyson, few credible challengers, and everything swatted aside for a sustained period.  City are like Anthony Joshua, a flash, sellable product.  Arguably. one that the sport needs to reach a global audience.  Would boxing back or turn against one of its strongest assets?

 

The other direction is one which people of integrity would want to see and that is fulfillment of the old adage that cheats don't prosper.

 

People hoping for that are ignoring the huge corruption of sport by money.  It is everywhere.  

 

Cash corrupts everything.

 

So my best guess is that City will get a fine and some sort of negotiated ban.  There will be no retrospective punishment of stripping them of titles.

 

Pity.  It could have been the moment football redeems itself.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Imagine us going into last years champions league final with a domestic treble these sportwashing cunts have fucked us over and others big time.

[Poor Scouser T]

I know they are guilty. You know they are guilty. 99% of the football world knows they are guilty. FFS my gran knows they are guilty and she's been dead 10 years. Now go and prove it and fucking hammer them. Shit or get off the pan.

I'll be done with this if they get away with this. OK no one will give a shit about me but it is indicative of the depth this sport has sunk. Think pro cycling only x10. 

[Poor Scouser T]

Does anyone know who decides on the punishment? The panel will decide guilt or innocence but I would imagine these are not football people and do not have an idea of the full consequences of any punishment. They may I guess make recommendations or emphasise the seriousness of the verdict but on the face of it I would imagine the PL decides on fate. That's like your accuser determining your sentence. Bit of a weird one. I don't know.

[TD_LFC]

19 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Imagine us going into last years champions league final with a domestic treble these sportwashing cunts have fucked us over and others big time.

We'd have lost to Madrid but felt a bit better about it?

[Bobby Hundreds]

8 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

We'd have lost to Madrid but felt a bit better about it?

A million times better

[Section_31]

Love the way they market themselves as some kind of whiley disruptors who're constantly on the outside because Old money doesn't like them spoiling their fun, like they've used moneyball and groundbreaking tactics to earn their way to the top, when in fact all they've done I spend a quarter of a billion English pounds on fullbacks thanks to investments from Acme sports associates in the Isle of Man.

[DJLJ]

1 hour ago, Poor Scouser T said:

I know they are guilty. You know they are guilty. 99% of the football world knows they are guilty. FFS my gran knows they are guilty and she's been dead 10 years. Now go and prove it and fucking hammer them. Shit or get off the pan.

I'll be done with this if they get away with this. OK no one will give a shit about me but it is indicative of the depth this sport has sunk. Think pro cycling only x10. 

They have already been found guilty of it, just not all of it. That they got off with a fine is just because of the time bar, nothing else. They will get absolutely hammered by the guilty part. The sentence will be the interesting part to look for. How heavily will they be punished for this. 

[Barrington Womble]

9 minutes ago, DJLJ said:

They have already been found guilty of it, just not all of it. That they got off with a fine is just because of the time bar, nothing else. They will get absolutely hammered by the guilty part. The sentence will be the interesting part to look for. How heavily will they be punished for this. 

What have they been found guilty of? You mean by uefa? If that's the case, CAS overturned everything aside from City's lack of cooperation. The fact it was time barred doesn't matter (iirc CAS said time bar and lack of evidence that sponsors cooperated with city in a fraud), they were still not guilty. So right now, officially they've not done much wrong except being obstructive. It's down to the independent panel to decide if they are guilty of the premier league charges. 

[ZonkoVille77]

I could be wrong but I feel like this is bothering Poor Scouser T. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scott_M]

I wonder if 8xBet will get a mention in any hearings. 
 

Still only 107 Twitter followers for the company…

[an tha]

Not that it will get resolved this season and not that i think they will get punished anyway, but loads of media talk about a points deduction this season.

 

They can fuck that idea off (appreciate it is just media waffle mind) effectively handing Arsenal a league title without righting other seasons is not on IMHO.

[aws]

This will rumble on for months/years before any punishment actually gets imposed. 

[ZonkoVille77]

1 hour ago, aws said:

This will rumble on for months/years before any punishment actually gets imposed. 

 

Exactly. A lot of people can be bought off in that time too.

[Ronnie Whelan]

I don't think they walk out of this unscathed.

 

They have essentially robbed us and the Mancs of six titles. Two of the biggest clubs in the world. If they win the league this year, they could finish ahead of the third biggest club in the country in Arsenal, so add them to the list. Teams robbed of top 4 will smell blood. Teams relegated will smell blood. This year it's highly likely a very big club like Leeds or the Blueshite go down as third bottom club. They will be arguing City get relegated instead. This isn't a simple "these cunts are better than the Scousers (or United)" scenario. This impacts a lot of clubs and big ones at that.

 

This won't get resolved quickly but they are in a big spot of bother. The only light for them is that they have such links with the government, so that will soften their landing.

 

It won't be solved this season but it will get nasty in the coming months.

 

My hope is they do ultimately get relegated and hopefully all the way down. Bellingham ain't going there unless they are stable and they won't be in the summer.

 

[dockers_strike]

7 hours ago, Megadrive Person said:

 

 

https://archive.is/2023.02.07-185105/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/yes-manchester-city-broke-the-rule-but-the-rules-protect-the-old-elite-ftr25q2lp

 

He talks utter drivel. Happy to say I made a number of complaints about his inaccurate opinions when he was writing for the Wail.

 

Oh yes, he claims FFP is to protect the established elite blah, blah, blah. Yeah that would be Liverpool winning the title for the first time in 30 years and arsenal, the first time in 19 years if they do win it this season! He was also mouthing off about how 'great' it would be if arsenal pipped city to the title this year.

 

He cant seem to make his mind up whether he wants an old 'elite' club win the title or corrupt city do so.

[dockers_strike]

2 hours ago, aws said:

This will rumble on for months/years before any punishment actually gets imposed. 

 

One sports lawyer is predicting 4 years!!

 

34 minutes ago, Ronnie Whelan said:

I don't think they walk out of this unscathed.

 

They have essentially robbed us and the Mancs of six titles. Two of the biggest clubs in the world. If they win the league this year, they could finish ahead of the third biggest club in the country in Arsenal, so add them to the list. Teams robbed of top 4 will smell blood. Teams relegated will smell blood. This year it's highly likely a very big club like Leeds or the Blueshite go down as third bottom club. They will be arguing City get relegated instead. This isn't a simple "these cunts are better than the Scousers (or United)" scenario. This impacts a lot of clubs and big ones at that.

 

This won't get resolved quickly but they are in a big spot of bother. The only light for them is that they have such links with the government, so that will soften their landing.

 

It won't be solved this season but it will get nasty in the coming months.

 

My hope is they do ultimately get relegated and hopefully all the way down. Bellingham ain't going there unless they are stable and they won't be in the summer.

 

 

Agree with your sentiments Ronnie but what's the point relegating them? At best, they'd be relegated to the Championship. It's open to the EFL accepting them but if they did, they'd only be out of the PL for 1 season as no club in that league is stopping them get automatic promotion. Relegating them to League 1 or 2? Never going to happen.

 

They need PL titles taking off them. The PL commission is powerless to strips them of FA and EFL Cups because they arent the PL's jurisdiction. Next they PL needs to impose proper financial restrictions on all clubs especially on owner related sponsorship deals.

 

The PL should be embarassed no one has picked up city having a higher turnover than Real. It's beyond a joke.

 

And then the PL let Boehly spend more money this last window than that combined for Serie A, Ligue Un and the Bundesliga, possibly La Liga as well for replacing the Russian gangster!

[Bjornebye]

They will have investigators into every single thing any other PL side has done so they can use it as a "Look, if you nation us we will expose this and bring the whole thing down". 

 

I hope to god the premier league has got balls and fucking destroys then and this whole being bought out by super rich to propel you to the top bullshit. I don't want any past stuff handed to us, not a thing. I do however want some semblance of fairness to return to football. that's not saying clubs can't spend money but fucking lottery winners have to be regulated. Newcastle can easily surpass City in 10/15 years the way things have stood recently. Fucking Newcastle. City were in League 1 about 20 years ago for fuck sake. Fuck them off back there. Oh and Guardiola is a shitbag.