Man City - the new bitters?

[No2]

19 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

As a brand they give a fuck. It must be one of the most played football moments of all time, destroying a moment like that hurts them all. They won't want to lose any ground to Spanish or German football. And I don't agree 75% would say throw them out. There's 13 clubs where top 4 isn't their business and they all hope one day it is and the only way to make that happened is to be the Newcastle or city crashing the party. 

 

 

I don't think they did spend 4 years building a case at all. I think they spent 4 years trying to and hitting a brick wall with city's refusal to cooperate, which I think has previously been well documented by the guardian. But they're now in a position where they don't want outside regulation (which I think the PL declared publicly) and currently have the 2 best supported clubs in the country (and 2 PL members) up for sale because one says they can't compete with the current set of rules, while the other has probably borrowed as much as it can to compete and is heading towards it's debt ceiling. I hope you and @dave u are right and the PL really want to fuck them. But I don't think that's the case at all. They just realise to maintain any credibility they need to act or completely lose control of the process permanently. 

 

 

Would you not agree that they had a great opportunity to shelve it once they won at CAS? 

 

As for the 13 clubs, City being relegated means there are only 2 spots up for relegation. There are no downsides for any of them other than the removal of Augero from the history books but I'm not sure that affects anything. Is there money in legacy footage? I seriously doubt it. 

[Megadrive Man]

5 hours ago, Anubis said:

Meanwhile, a heart rending tale from Blue Moon.

 

 

Literally crying with laughter at this.

 

Reads like something from a comedy sitcom.

[Reckoner]

10 minutes ago, Megadrive Person said:

 

Literally crying with laughter at this.

 

Reads like something from a comedy sitcom.

He forgot to write at the end  ‘and then the whole street applauded us as we walked home’.

[Megadrive Man]

4 minutes ago, Reckoner said:

He forgot to write at the end  ‘and then the whole street applauded us as we walked home’.

 

He forgot to write then we flew off on my flying unicorn back to the moon accompanied by the ghost of Colin Bell patting me on the back for my tremendous show of loyalty to the club.

 

[Barrington Womble]

32 minutes ago, No2 said:

Would you not agree that they had a great opportunity to shelve it once they won at CAS? 

 

As for the 13 clubs, City being relegated means there are only 2 spots up for relegation. There are no downsides for any of them other than the removal of Augero from the history books but I'm not sure that affects anything. Is there money in legacy footage? I seriously doubt it. 

You mean the PL? No, I don't think so. A large element of CAS was time bar, which doesn't exist here. Also the PL's sustainability rules differ from the UEFA FFP anyway. And finally, the voices of the clubs like our own who have always been advocates of both the PL & UEFA financial control rules, were always at the PL table and did not want this to go away. 

 

The thing with the PL is it is such a divided base, different interest groups everywhere and then self interest and competition within those interest groups. But since inception they have always tried to put the brand first and I believe that control and marketing of the league has enabled it to pull so far ahead of the other European leagues. I just can't believe for 1 second there is any idea they want to just erase large parts of the league's history and undermine the brands value in doing so. They need to be seen to do something because there's literally members of the PL demanding it. But i feel sure the outcome will end where the brand as a whole comes out best and the self interest of the individual clubs is very secondary - it'll be an outcome everyone feels they can move forward with. I certainly think there's far more chance of a relegation than titles being taken away. But honestly I don't think it'll go anywhere near that and I don't think there's a chance in hell it'll even go as far as points deduction for future seasons, let alone the idea they can be expelled from the league and have a decade of titles taken away.

 

Imo they've been charged with 100+ breaches of rules so they can get out of the biggest of them, get found guilty of some of the minor ones and they get to walk away with their tails between their legs but the last decade in tact and the next decade secure. 

 

 

[deiseach]

23 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

Pep has been very clear that if there is wrong doing he’ll walk. 

 

What is clear is that he's lying to himself or he's lying to everyone else. 

[JohnnyH]

8 hours ago, TheSire said:

You know what he's thinking?

Do you know what, you’re right.  From now on no one is to ever pass a comment on what they think a footballer/manager/owner/fan/coach/trainer/yerma is feeling or thinking about on a football forum. No more speculation. Just facts from now on. 

[JohnnyH]

10 minutes ago, deiseach said:

 

What is clear is that he's lying to himself or he's lying to everyone else. 

Absolutely. But his comments about his “integrity” when he spoke the last time City were done for this issue and stated he’d leave the “following day” leave him very little wriggle room on this. He’s got a major issue now. 

[KMD7]

6 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

You mean the PL? No, I don't think so. A large element of CAS was time bar, which doesn't exist here. Also the PL's sustainability rules differ from the UEFA FFP anyway. And finally, the voices of the clubs like our own who have always been advocates of both the PL & UEFA financial control rules, were always at the PL table and did not want this to go away. 

 

The thing with the PL is it is such a divided base, different interest groups everywhere and then self interest and competition within those interest groups. But since inception they have always tried to put the brand first and I believe that control and marketing of the league has enabled it to pull so far ahead of the other European leagues. I just can't believe for 1 second there is any idea they want to just erase large parts of the league's history and undermine the brands value in doing so. They need to be seen to do something because there's literally members of the PL demanding it. But i feel sure the outcome will end where the brand as a whole comes out best and the self interest of the individual clubs is very secondary - it'll be an outcome everyone feels they can move forward with. I certainly think there's far more chance of a relegation than titles being taken away. But honestly I don't think it'll go anywhere near that and I don't think there's a chance in hell it'll even go as far as points deduction for future seasons, let alone the idea they can be expelled from the league and have a decade of titles taken away.

 

Imo they've been charged with 100+ breaches of rules so they can get out of the biggest of them, get found guilty of some of the minor ones and they get to walk away with their tails between their legs but the last decade in tact and the next decade secure. 

 

 

Fucking hell Baz way to kill our hopes here! 

 

(You're probably right though)

[Jose Jones]

I reckon @Barrington Womble is pretty close to the mark here.

The only way City are getting the book thrown at them is if all the evidence made it into the public domain and the clamour for action became so high the pressure to act would be greater than the pressure not to act.

 

As we’ve seen so far though, loads of articles are just tiptoeing around - undoubtedly because Abu Dhabi have threatened legal action on reporting of any unproven facts.

 

Also there’s a fair amount of things they can do to influence an “independent panel”.

[Pete]

1 minute ago, Jose Jones said:

I reckon @Barrington Womble is pretty close to the mark here.

The only way City are getting the book thrown at them is if all the evidence made it into the public domain and the clamour for action became so high the pressure to act would be greater than the pressure not to act.

 

As we’ve seen so far though, loads of articles are just tiptoeing around - undoubtedly because Abu Dhabi have threatened legal action on reporting of any unproven facts.

 

Also there’s a fair amount of things they can do to influence an “independent panel”.

More than likely but I reckon the Premier League is dead as dodo if they get away with only a minor penalty.  

[JohnnyH]

7 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

You mean the PL? No, I don't think so. A large element of CAS was time bar, which doesn't exist here. Also the PL's sustainability rules differ from the UEFA FFP anyway. And finally, the voices of the clubs like our own who have always been advocates of both the PL & UEFA financial control rules, were always at the PL table and did not want this to go away. 

 

The thing with the PL is it is such a divided base, different interest groups everywhere and then self interest and competition within those interest groups. But since inception they have always tried to put the brand first and I believe that control and marketing of the league has enabled it to pull so far ahead of the other European leagues. I just can't believe for 1 second there is any idea they want to just erase large parts of the league's history and undermine the brands value in doing so. They need to be seen to do something because there's literally members of the PL demanding it. But i feel sure the outcome will end where the brand as a whole comes out best and the self interest of the individual clubs is very secondary - it'll be an outcome everyone feels they can move forward with. I certainly think there's far more chance of a relegation than titles being taken away. But honestly I don't think it'll go anywhere near that and I don't think there's a chance in hell it'll even go as far as points deduction for future seasons, let alone the idea they can be expelled from the league and have a decade of titles taken away.

 

Imo they've been charged with 100+ breaches of rules so they can get out of the biggest of them, get found guilty of some of the minor ones and they get to walk away with their tails between their legs but the last decade in tact and the next decade secure. 

 

 

 

I (respectfully) disagree with some of this. 
 

I agree with the first party that the PL couldn’t shelve it. It’s worth remembering that UEFA threw them out of European competition for 2 years. It was CAS that let them back in and changed it to a fine due to statute barred issues. They were guilty and UEFA did their job. CAS softened it.  
 

Yes, the brand comes first, but a brand that’s now known for being won by cheats or not a good brand. Again, they’ve been proven as cheats by UEFA once already, and now the PL have come out with the most extraordinary, unprecedented list of charges. They must be confident in what they have as either City are fucked or the Premier League are fucked. 

You understandably say you can’t see them erasing parts of their history, but what’s the alternative?  Find them guilty of even some of the charges and leave them as champions? Leave that Aguero moment as a key marketing tool while everyone that sees it shaking their heads thinking ‘but they cheated?’ They’ve said it now. Not some outside group. Not some journalist. The Premier League itself has said the most dominant club for the last 12-13 years have been cheating at an unprecedented level. The brand itself is saying the brand has been massively stained. That’s massive. There is no one to try and wheel it back. They are saying it. 
 

As for the final part about just charging them with minor issues, again I don’t see it. The 116 charges are broken into 5 headings. All extremely serious. For example, they just have to make one charge stick from the huge list in heading 1 and that means they lied to the Premier League and they’re fucked. Same applies to the other headings. Effectively, they can find them guilty of just 5 issues from the 116 and they are guilty on all counts. 
 

 

[Poor Scouser T]

What possible motivation is there for the PL to charge City with 100+ offences and then let them off or fine or find them innocent? Not just being a bit naughty but fraud on a criminal scale. It makes no sense to say they will play the ah well we tried route.

 

Whatever the verdict in this it will be a bomb. PL lose, City, Newcastle etc will basically be running the league. They can do what they want because a case like this will never be brought again. The PL organisation from top to bottom will destroyed. Likely the the SL will kick in and be unstoppable The big clubs need this and will not just roll their eyes and carry on. Sky Sports will be history unless you want to pay for Leicester vs Cardiff. There are billions at stake. This is not simply a Suarez type dispute it is a fight for the very control of the game and it's future.

[No2]

7 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

You mean the PL? No, I don't think so. A large element of CAS was time bar, which doesn't exist here. Also the PL's sustainability rules differ from the UEFA FFP anyway. And finally, the voices of the clubs like our own who have always been advocates of both the PL & UEFA financial control rules, were always at the PL table and did not want this to go away. 

 

The thing with the PL is it is such a divided base, different interest groups everywhere and then self interest and competition within those interest groups. But since inception they have always tried to put the brand first and I believe that control and marketing of the league has enabled it to pull so far ahead of the other European leagues. I just can't believe for 1 second there is any idea they want to just erase large parts of the league's history and undermine the brands value in doing so. They need to be seen to do something because there's literally members of the PL demanding it. But i feel sure the outcome will end where the brand as a whole comes out best and the self interest of the individual clubs is very secondary - it'll be an outcome everyone feels they can move forward with. I certainly think there's far more chance of a relegation than titles being taken away. But honestly I don't think it'll go anywhere near that and I don't think there's a chance in hell it'll even go as far as points deduction for future seasons, let alone the idea they can be expelled from the league and have a decade of titles taken away.

 

Imo they've been charged with 100+ breaches of rules so they can get out of the biggest of them, get found guilty of some of the minor ones and they get to walk away with their tails between their legs but the last decade in tact and the next decade secure. 

 

 

Man City are one of only a couple of clubs publicly in support of the government white paper? Why do you think that is? I reckon it's because they knee this was coming and could brief the media to almost repeat word for word what you have said. Their voice adds no real weight when 17 others oppose it, its pure show.

 

I strongly recommend you listen to the podcast I posted yesterday,  the first 20 minutes will change your mind.

[Liverpool lad]

The away game should be full of mirth and merriment as we mock their now tainted trophies

 

 

 

 

[Harry Squatter]

22 hours ago, Funkasy said:

Imagine how good KDB will look in league2.

Still wouldn't turn up for any of the big games though.

[Rico1304]

City have already been fighting this in the courts.  They are trying to get the definition of FFP amended in their favour.  The judgments are heavily redacted due to the outstanding investigation and potential for future litigation.  

[Pidge]

10 hours ago, sir roger said:

One of the things that helps the PL is the ' Balance of Probabilities ' rule, which Luis found to his cost, so expensive lawyers casting doubt won't be a golden bullet this time for City.

Not really, as we also could have sought further arbitration that could have required actual evidence, but chose not to because of the PR fire.

[Carra_is_legend]

On 06/02/2023 at 21:32, dave u said:

 

Well he needs to quit immediately really, unless he isn't a man of his word of course.

This is all going to blow his stupid head anyway.

[El Rojo]

It's coming at a good time with their poor domestic form and the weeks drawing in towards their usual European heroics. Pressure of all kinds. 

[Poor Scouser T]

15 hours ago, Anubis said:

Meanwhile, a heart rending tale from Blue Moon.

 

That is a discarded script from shameless.

[coachpotato]

If they fall any further behind Arsenal, and/or get knocked out of the CL, I could see him walking, saying he’s gone as far as he can with the squad.

If his masters don’t sack him first, considering that was the main reason he was hired.

[Aventus]

2 hours ago, No2 said:

 

I strongly recommend you listen to the podcast I posted yesterday,  the first 20 minutes will change your mind.

Looks like it's down. Got another link please? 

[Poor Scouser T]

4 minutes ago, Aventus said:

Looks like it's down. Got another link please? 

Can we take stuff off twitter into the real world because IMO that is a must listen.

[Anubis]

Danny Mills. Another overpaid oxygen thief, like Abonglawhore.