Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Jairzinho]

Out of interest, which media outlets do you think he should be objectively scrutinised by? Are there any alternative outlets that are doing so, that he engages with regularly?

 

I'm not particularly familiar with the alternative media.

 

He should be objectively scrutinised by the likes of the BBC and The Guardian, but isn't and therefore he should seek, and promote, those that would/do. I don't think he engages anywhere near enough with alternative media, and it's a huge mistake. I don't think I've ever seen him on Democracy Now, The Real News Network, Novara Media, etc. We have the most right wing media in Europe, they aren't going to give him a fair crack of the whip, so look elsewhere. Help alternative media to grow. 

 

He is in a position where he could be helping to tackle capitalism's hold over democracy and he isn't doing nearly enough in this regard. 

[Rico1304]

Hmm, highest life expectancy in the world and among the lowest crime rates along with a pretty peerless transport infrastructure and a distinct lack of criminal banking practices.

 

Life expectancy is based predominantly on diet. So what.

[Strontium]

Of course no one starves to death under communism.

Especially not those 10 person families in communist China.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

He should be objectively scrutinised by the likes of the BBC and The Guardian, but isn't and therefore he should seek, and promote, those that would/do. I don't think he engages anywhere near enough with alternative media, and it's a huge mistake. I don't think I've ever seen him on Democracy Now, The Real News Network, Novara Media, etc. We have the most right wing media in Europe, they aren't going to give him a fair crack of the whip, so look elsewhere. Help alternative media to grow. 

 

He is in a position where he could be helping to tackle capitalism's hold over democracy and he isn't doing nearly enough in this regard. 

 

That's what I was afraid of, I was wondering if he was pushing his prominence with the alternative media and it'd slipped past me, but it sounds like he's just choosing the wrong battles. If ever there was a chance to move the debate to more neutral ground, then this is it.

 

As irksome as it's been, the rise of the alt-right in American and the tactics used have shown that you can gain huge traction away from the mainstream media, and swathes of people are hungry for an alternative perspective; whether it's true or not.

[Hades]

I have the two subhuman scum on ignore, please don't quote them.

[Jairzinho]

That's what I was afraid of, I was wondering if he was pushing his prominence with the alternative media and it'd slipped past me, but it sounds like he's just choosing the wrong battles. If ever there was a chance to move the debate to more neutral ground, then this is it.

 

As irksome as it's been, the rise of the alt-right in American and the tactics used have shown that you can gain huge traction away from the mainstream media, and swathes of people are hungry for an alternative perspective; whether it's true or not.

 

Completely agree. People want an alternative, but it needs people in prominent positions to promote it.

[Denny Crane]

It might be a great socialist policy but the mass electorate think that one day they could earn millions in wages a year. The mere suggestion of a wage cap will go down like a lead balloon.

 

There is a decent amout of support for a wage cap according to this poll. This isn't a new Corbyn policy. He said it when he first ran.

 

 

 

 

[Rico1304]

I have the two subhuman scum on ignore, please don't quote them.

If I'm on ignore how can you continually neg me?

[VladimirIlyich]

Capping wages is ludicrous. The most in demand people will simply leave or find ways around it

 

A progressive tax system is the only realistic way you can tackle wage inequality

Disagree that its ludicrous but agree that a better tax system is one of a few ideas that could help. Whatever happens the rich will continue to dodge paying because they've been able to do it for so long. As for the 'brain drain' they can all fuck off as I'm very confident that people will be queuing up to fill the vacuum. The so called 'top people' in this country are there through nepotism and funny handshakes. The most intelligent people are usually quite poorly paid in relation so I don't buy that argument at all.

[Rico1304]

There is a decent amout of support for a wage cap according to this poll. This isn't a new Corbyn policy. He said it when he first ran.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that, it's really surprised me. I wonder if people would vote the same way when the implications were explained to them? No Graham Norton for instance!

[jimmycase]

Talk of a wage cap is ludicrous as is super high taxation which brings in fuck all tax in reality.

 

Far better to up the national minimum wage.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I haven't said that anywhere, so why are you saying that?

 

A crying shame your school didn't teach you to accurately parse other people's arguments.

You mean you don't consider yourself to be more intelligent than the people you dismiss as "thickos"?

 

Interesting.

[Hooch]

Disagree that its ludicrous but agree that a better tax system is one of a few ideas that could help. Whatever happens the rich will continue to dodge paying because they've been able to do it for so long. As for the 'brain drain' they can all fuck off as I'm very confident that people will be queuing up to fill the vacuum. The so called 'top people' in this country are there through nepotism and funny handshakes. The most intelligent people are usually quite poorly paid in relation so I don't buy that argument at all.

Exactly. If the banks want to leave London and fuck off to Paris or Berlin or wherever, fine, maybe the UK could then diversify into other industries and across more cities up north too. Its worth the risk.

[Neil G]

I'm in work so can't see the clip. He could say that is not on today's agenda. Loads of things. No different to football managers choosing to speak or not about transfer rumours. Unless he wants that message out rather than the message he and his advisers had chosen in advance. Although it sounds to me from what you're saying, he's allowed the BBC to hijack his message.

Absolutely. Labour should make it standard practice when they make a major policy announcement that they want to lead the news, they won't answer any unrelated questions at the press conference, or maybe even none at all but grant one to one interviews to a few journalists afterwards. Then they can have a weekly or fortnightly open presser where journos can ask them anything they want. At the moment they keep allowing their message to be overshadowed through avoidable mistakes.

[Denny Crane]

Thanks for that, it's really surprised me. I wonder if people would vote the same way when the implications were explained to them? No Graham Norton for instance!

Depends how you sell it. If you stick Philip Green and random young footballer on a poster next to a nurse and a carer. I could see it having a similar impact as those posters praying on immigration fears.

 

When I listened to people who voted to leave the EU. It was mainly due to immigration and the money not trickling down. Whilst a wage cap might not be the answer the ratio linked say 1-... might be a better one. It would bring wages up for those at the bottom. Most people earn less than you might think. This from 2013 and wages haven't really moved much since then.

 

Median pay in the UK is about £23,000, so if you earn more than £50k you are in the top 95% of the working population and in the top 1% of the global one. If you earn more than £100k, you are in the top 1% of the UK population and literally almost off the scale in the global context.

 

Out of a population of 60 million people in the UK, only 300,000 earn more than £100k per year, so for every rich banker there are thousands of people on £20,000 to £30,000.

 

http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/opinion/2013/09/pay-painful-truth

[Section_31]

Life expectancy is based predominantly on diet. So what.

 

What would you say drives the west's poor diet then, if not money, both in terms of the squeeze on what people can afford and the advertising power and omnipresence of junk food and fizzy drinks giants? 

[Rico1304]

Depends how you sell it. If you stick Philip Green and random young footballer on a poster next to a nurse and a carer. I could see it having a similar impact as those posters praying on immigration fears.

When I listened to people who voted to leave the EU. It was mainly due to immigration and the money not trickling down. Whilst a wage cap might not be the answer the ratio linked say 1-... might be a better one. It would bring wages up for those at the bottom. Most people earn less than you might think. This from 2013 and wages haven't really moved much since then.

Median pay in the UK is about £23,000, so if you earn more than £50k you are in the top 95% of the working population and in the top 1% of the global one. If you earn more than £100k, you are in the top 1% of the UK population and literally almost off the scale in the global context.

Out of a population of 60 million people in the UK, only 300,000 earn more than £100k per year, so for every rich banker there are thousands of people on £20,000 to £30,000.http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/opinion/2013/09/pay-painful-truth

But I don't want it 'sold' I want the facts. How much tax revenue will be lost, how much richer will corporations and businesses get as they do t have to pay out. What will the brain drain look like? the 'let the bankers go' attitude is naive beyond belief.

[Denny Crane]

But I don't want it 'sold' I want the facts. How much tax revenue will be lost, how much richer will corporations and businesses get as they do t have to pay out. What will the brain drain look like? the 'let the bankers go' attitude is naive beyond belief.

My initial comments were regarding the population of the UK are far more receptive to a wage cap than we might think.

 

As for the brain drain. This isn't like the 70s. There are not many places those earning more than one million can go these days. There will be even less when Brexit happens. There is always the Middle East, places like Qatar and Saudi if you don't like it...

 

You could always have an exclusion for people doing very important work in say science.

[SasaS]

My initial comments were regarding the population of the UK are far more receptive to a wage cap than we might think.

 

As for the brain drain. This isn't like the 70s. There are not many places those earning more than one million can go these days. There will be even less when Brexit happens. There is always the Middle East, places like Qatar and Saudi if you don't like it...

 

You could always have an exclusion for people doing very important work in say science.

 

Or the obvious other example pertinent to the profile of this site. Would you cap them or exclude them, but cap top talent in finance?

[Hades]

You mean you don't consider yourself to be more intelligent than the people you dismiss as "thickos"?

 

Interesting.

Capitalism works perfectly when you can just dehumanise and criminalise all the people it doesn't work for.

[Jairzinho]

Or the obvious other example pertinent to the profile of this site. Would you cap them or exclude them, but cap top talent in finance?

 

Good luck trying to cap Usher's salary.

[Barrington Womble]

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I think he's awful with the mainstream media. He should therefore be delegating more. Let some of the younger members of the shadow cabinet that have had a bit of training deal with these slimy fuckers.

 

I think part of the problem is that he forgets how snide they are. You can see him relaxing into interviews and then forgetting to be the robotic on message politician that he needs to be when dealing with the likes of the BBC and Sky News.

He and the labour party (in fact the country as a whole) can't afford for him to forget the press are snides. In fact as he knows our press are mostly very right wing, he should expect snipers at every turn. And in this situation, you're only talking about the BBC and sky, we've not even got onto the right wing written press.

 

Like my previous post, I'll use another football analogy. Managers can't be like they were with the press 30 years ago. They need to know the press are part of the game and find ways how to use them and not the other way around. It's no different with politicians. I hate to refer to trump, but when he knew he couldn't get his message via the normal press when running against the republican machine early on, he took to social media. Now we all know it's a car crash in terms of his message, but it's a he wanted to get out there, hee controlled who he was and wouldn't even let the republican party dictate to him .

 

Until corbyn realises his only friend in the media is himself, he'll get nowhere.

 

 

 

Absolutely. Labour should make it standard practice when they make a major policy announcement that they want to lead the news, they won't answer any unrelated questions at the press conference, or maybe even none at all but grant one to one interviews to a few journalists afterwards. Then they can have a weekly or fortnightly open presser where journos can ask them anything they want. At the moment they keep allowing their message to be overshadowed through avoidable mistakes.

It's amazing that they don't do this really. Again, it seems like media training 101.

[Strontium]

You mean you don't consider yourself to be more intelligent than the people you dismiss as "thickos"?

 

Interesting.

 

Moving the goalposts there, aren't you.

 

You wrote:

 

SD's school taught him that he is clever and all other "folk" are "thickos".

 

At no point did I say or even imply that everyone other than me was a thicko. The single use of the word was in reference to a minority of classmates (maybe 20%) in junior school who were disruptive and who took up most of the teacher's time.

 

Surely you are capable of disagreeing with me without misrepresenting me.

[Strontium]

Capitalism works perfectly when you can just dehumanise and criminalise all the people it doesn't work for.

 

Complains about dehumanisation right after denouncing other members of this forum as subhuman scum.

 

I bet Hades is so self-unaware he doesn't realise he's the biggest hypocrite on the forum.

[cloggypop]

He can't help it. He went to a comprehensive.