Should Corbyn remain as Labour leader?

[Mook]

So how does a wage cap solve that problem? It's a daft idea, pandering to people who already vote for him. Do you honestly think anyone listening to that who voted for other parties will now be tempted to vote for him?

 

I've got no time for the Labour party & I think it's a reasonable point so you're talking shite.

 

As for the detail, I agree with Stringy's post above, great idea in theory, not so great trying to implement it in this Capitalist dystopia we inhabit.

[Section_31]

So the best way to prevent corporate tax evasion is to cap wages?

 

From a purely practical level, something has to be done about wealth disparity or the economy and society will collapse, it's that simple in my view. You can't run a consumer economy where people have less and less disposable income to spend, and the reason they have less and less disposable income to spend is because a small number of people are hoovering it up and putting it under the bed in switzerland, never to be seen again. 

 

I've used this example before, but if everyone in the UK worked for Tesco and you said to the head of Tesco 'I can fully automate your business, it will save you billions on wages, but in five years time nobody will have any money to spend in your stores as they've all been laid off and you'll go out of business, he'd still say yes please. He'd get a nice big fat bonus from the shareholders and fuck off to be the head of AOL in Dubai or some shit, while the UK turns into Mad Max. 

 

Imagine the UK was a village of ten houses, and someone owned nine of them, had 90% of the crops and water, and fixed it in such a way that only his family and friends would ever be in the same position as him. It'd only be a matter of time before everyone else crammed into that one house cottoned onto the fact they'd been sucker punched and picked up the pitchforks - and rightly so. 

 

It's a fucking cabal, a rigged game being misrepresented as a fair one. 

[Gooch]

Can't help but think this change in tactics from Corbyn on immigration has led him into the exact same trap that ended Miliband. I.e A wishy washy compromise that appeals to no one.

[Rico1304]

I've got no time for the Labour party & I think it's a reasonable point so you're talking shite.

 

As for the detail, I agree with Stringy's post above, great idea in theory, not so great trying to implement it in this Capitalist dystopia we inhabit.

Capitalist dystopia? Scotland isn't that bad surely? I think Hades is infecting you.

[Mook]

Capitalist dystopia? Scotland isn't that bad surely? I think Hades is infecting you.

 

I was being a bit melodramatic but whatever the SNP want people to believe, they are very much capitalists & their purse strings are still held by that lot in Westminster to a large extent.

[Rico1304]

From a purely practical level, something has to be done about wealth disparity or the economy and society will collapse, it's that simple in my view. You can't run a consumer economy where people have less and less disposable income to spend, and the reason they have less and less disposable income to spend is because a small number of people are hoovering it up and putting it under the bed in switzerland, never to be seen again. 

 

I've used this example before, but if everyone in the UK worked for Tesco and you said to the head of Tesco 'I can fully automate your business, it will save you billions on wages, but in five years time nobody will have any money to spend in your stores as they've all been laid off and you'll go out of business, he'd still say yes please. He'd get a nice big fat bonus from the shareholders and fuck off to be the head of AOL in Dubai or some shit, while the UK turns into Mad Max. 

 

Imagine the UK was a village of ten houses, and someone owned nine of them, had 90% of the crops and water, and fixed it in such a way that only his family and friends would ever be in the same position as him. It'd only be a matter of time before everyone else crammed into that one house cottoned onto the fact they'd been sucker punched and picked up the pitchforks - and rightly so. 

 

It's a fucking cabal, a rigged game being misrepresented as a fair one.

 

But that is going to happen, kids born today won't ever learn to drive, robots and AI will do all the jobs. Preventing a few footballers, film stars & boxers from plying their trade in the UK won't change a thing.

[Section_31]

But that is going to happen, kids born today won't ever learn to drive, robots and AI will do all the jobs. Preventing a few footballers, film stars & boxers from plying their trade in the UK won't change a thing.

 

I wasn't really talking about automation as such, I'm talking about the underpinning philosophy of short term gain. 

 

There are other ways to run capitalism. The Japanese don't work long hours for personal gain, they do it to keep the company and - by extension - the country strong. The Scandos have somehow found a fantastic balance of social/economic endeavour, with some of the smallest child poverty rates in the world. 

 

Both us and the United States are the most zealous pursuers of free market capitalism in the world, yet we're among the most socially dysfunctional, with relatively high levels of mental illness, child poverty and crime compared to other western 'capitalist' countries. We also now both have largely dysfunctional political systems. 

 

Even Adam Smith thought capitalism needed a guiding hand. 

[Rico1304]

A quick Google tells me Japanese people aren't very happy at all, suicide rates 3x ours.

 

The scando countries do well but they are tiny in comparison to us with fewer of the problems we have.

[Barrington Womble]

I see Corbyn has indicated this morning that he would like to see a cap on maximum earnings.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38568116

 

So we can expect increased attacks on him from the media then.

The stupid thing with this is he was supposed to be making today as a platform for labour to say they are not exclusively in favour of free movement and are willing to think of a cap on immigration - this coupled with comments how we can be better outside the EU - all messages the name press are on board with.

 

Now I don't particularly want labour to have that standpoint as it doesn't share my own view, but I understand why they have to defend themselves from UKIP. It's being done in Peterborough too, which voted leave heavily. So they set up a day to try and claw back support with labour voters who may move away and then over shadow it talking about a policy he doesn't even have a clue how he'd implement it anyway. That's all we will hear about today and virtually nothing about Europe. It's fucking madness and self sabotage.

[Jairzinho]

The stupid thing with this is he was supposed to be making today as a platform for labour to say they are not exclusively in favour of free movement and are willing to think of a cap on immigration - this coupled with comments how we can be better outside the EU - all messages the name press are on board with.

 

Now I don't particularly want labour to have that standpoint as it doesn't share my own view, but I understand why they have to defend themselves from UKIP. It's being done in Peterborough too, which voted leave heavily. So they set up a day to try and claw back support with labour voters who may move away and then over shadow it talking about a policy he doesn't even have a clue how he'd implement it anyway. That's all we will hear about today and virtually nothing about Europe. It's fucking madness and self sabotage.

 

Do you think he should have refused to answer the question?

 

Genuinely, perhaps he should have done.

[Barrington Womble]

Do you think he should have refused to answer the question?

Is that how it came about? I only saw a news flash on it when he 1st said it. But if the press asked him that question, absolutely he should find a way not to answer it. It's his agenda and his message - that would seem media training 101.

[Strontium]

SD's school taught him that he is clever and all other "folk" are "thickos".

 

I haven't said that anywhere, so why are you saying that?

 

A crying shame your school didn't teach you to accurately parse other people's arguments.

[Jairzinho]

Is that how it came about? I only saw a news flash on it when he 1st said it. But if the press asked him that question, absolutely he should find a way not to answer it. It's his agenda and his message - that would seem media training 101.

 

It's on the 2 minute clip from that link. He was asked specifically what he would do about the earnings of the rich.

 

I'm not really sure what he should say if asked about what he would do about the earnings of the rich. He may actually gain more support if, rather than refusing to answer the question, he simply refused to be interviewed by the BBC.

[Tony Moanero]

Cunts.

[Rico1304]

It's on the 2 minute clip from that link. He was asked specifically what he would do about the earnings of the rich.

 

I'm not really sure what he should say if asked about what he would do about the earnings of the rich. He may actually gain more support if, rather than refusing to answer the question, he simply refused to be interviewed by the BBC.

Like Gin Soak?

[skend04]

It might be a great socialist policy but the mass electorate think that one day they could earn millions in wages a year. The mere suggestion of a wage cap will go down like a lead balloon.

[magicrat]

Capping wages is ludicrous. The most in demand people will simply leave or find ways around it

 

A progressive tax system is the only realistic way you can tackle wage inequality

[Barrington Womble]

It's on the 2 minute clip from that link. He was asked specifically what he would do about the earnings of the rich.

 

I'm not really sure what he should say if asked about what he would do about the earnings of the rich. He may actually gain more support if, rather than refusing to answer the question, he simply refused to be interviewed by the BBC.

I'm in work so can't see the clip. He could say that is not on today's agenda. Loads of things. No different to football managers choosing to speak or not about transfer rumours. Unless he wants that message out rather than the message he and his advisers had chosen in advance. Although it sounds to me from what you're saying, he's allowed the BBC to hijack his message.

[Jairzinho]

Capping wages is ludicrous. The most in demand people will simply leave or find ways around it

 

A progressive tax system is the only realistic way you can tackle wage inequality

 

Surely it would depend what the cap was?

 

If it was set at a couple of million then who would we lose that is beneficial to the country? None of the top scientists, engineers, etc are paid anything like that. 

 

I tend to agree with you that I'd prefer we did other things like shift some of the income tax parameters, and created another one (I don't think three creates a particularly fair system), be much tougher on corporations that swerve tax, and possibly consider the idea of a wage multiple. So if someone wants to pay someone £1m a year then the cleaners get £25k a year (or whatever).

[Jairzinho]

I'm in work so can't see the clip. He could say that is not on today's agenda. Loads of things. No different to football managers choosing to speak or not about transfer rumours. Unless he wants that message out rather than the message he and his advisers had chosen in advance. Although it sounds to me from what you're saying, he's allowed the BBC to hijack his message.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think he's awful with the mainstream media. He should therefore be delegating more. Let some of the younger members of the shadow cabinet that have had a bit of training deal with these slimy fuckers.

 

I think part of the problem is that he forgets how snide they are. You can see him relaxing into interviews and then forgetting to be the robotic on message politician that he needs to be when dealing with the likes of the BBC and Sky News.

[Rico1304]

Surely it would depend what the cap was?

 

If it was set at a couple of million then who would we lose that is beneficial to the country? None of the top scientists, engineers, etc are paid anything like that.

 

I tend to agree with you that I'd prefer we did other things like shift some of the income tax parameters, and created another one (I don't think three creates a particularly fair system), be much tougher on corporations that swerve tax, and possibly consider the idea of a wage multiple. So if someone wants to pay someone £1m a year then the cleaners get £25k a year (or whatever).

Can you back up this claim that none of the 'top scientists, engineers' earn more than £2m?

 

What about lawyers, doctors, entrepreneurs, etc etc

 

Edit: got it the wrong way round.

[Hades]

There are other ways to run capitalism. The Japanese don't work long hours for personal gain, they do it to keep the company and - by extension - the country strong. The Scandos have somehow found a fantastic balance of social/economic endeavour, with some of the smallest child poverty rates in the world. 

 

 

Whilst I agree Scando countries are better than the English-speaking Global North, the highlighted sentence demonstrates why I'm a communist and not a socialist. Socialism still has 'acceptable losses'. No human should be left behind in civilisation. They end up suffering the most. It's like having a 10 person family and not caring for the weakest kid. If it's good enough for 9, it should be good enough for 10.

[Babb'sBurstNad]

Don't get me wrong, I think he's awful with the mainstream media. He should therefore be delegating more. Let some of the younger members of the shadow cabinet that have had a bit of training deal with these slimy fuckers.

 

I think part of the problem is that he forgets how snide they are. You can see him relaxing into interviews and then forgetting to be the robotic on message politician that he needs to be when dealing with the likes of the BBC and Sky News.

 

Out of interest, which media outlets do you think he should be objectively scrutinised by? Are there any alternative outlets that are doing so, that he engages with regularly?

 

I'm not particularly familiar with the alternative media.

[Section_31]

A quick Google tells me Japanese people aren't very happy at all, suicide rates 3x ours.

 

The scando countries do well but they are tiny in comparison to us with fewer of the problems we have.

 

Hmm, highest life expectancy in the world and among the lowest crime rates along with a pretty peerless transport infrastructure and a distinct lack of criminal banking practices.  

[Rico1304]

Whilst I agree Scando countries are better than the English-speaking Global North, the highlighted sentence demonstrates why I'm a communist and not a socialist. Socialism still has 'acceptable losses'. No human should be left behind in civilisation. They end up suffering the most. It's like having a 10 person family and not caring for the weakest kid. If it's good enough for 9, it should be good enough for 10.

Of course no one starves to death under communism.