Go fuck yourselves FSG

[TheDrowningMan]

11 minutes ago, Harry Squatter said:

Not just them. We've been outspent by two of the promoted teams, Brentford, Southampton, West Ham and Wolves despite us having Champions League money for the last five years. They really are a fucking joke. 

 

If Mane had not left we would have only bought Ramsey and Carvalho. And we tried to buy Carvalho in January. 

 

Don't forget that we "signed" Salah!

[Barrington Womble]

I normally stay off this thread now as the conversation goes round in circles. Once every so often klopp gives us some little nuggets of information. A little while back he confirmed the buy to sell policy, which the fan boys had always said was an impossible strategy. And the latest is he's now confirmed there's not money there "if the right player becomes available". He's told us he wants a midfielder. He's told us we'll only buy the right ones. He's told us there's no money there, which is as clear as statement as you'll ever get that the money isn't there for the right one klopp wants. Thank fuck we have klopp. We're going to be absolutely fucked when he goes.  

[Section_31]

1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

I normally stay off this thread now as the conversation goes round in circles. Once every so often klopp gives us some little nuggets of information. A little while back he confirmed the buy to sell policy, which the fan boys had always said was an impossible strategy. And the latest is he's now confirmed there's not money there "if the right player becomes available". He's told us he wants a midfielder. He's told us we'll only buy the right ones. He's told us there's no money there, which is as clear as statement as you'll ever get that the money isn't there for the right one klopp wants. Thank fuck we have klopp. We're going to be absolutely fucked when he goes.  

It's fucking shocking if true given their voracious appetite for sponsorship.

[Vincent Vega]

We can spend money if Klopp thinks it’s needed, surely?

 

[Barrington Womble]

4 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

It's fucking shocking if true given their voracious appetite for sponsorship.

It's not even just the sponsorship. The runs in all the cups, especially the CL must have boosted the bank account no end. We turned over almost 500m in the full covid season. We've followed that up playing every game we possibly can last season and finished 2nd. Plus we should have got the benefit of the Nike deal with the pandemic over. It feels incredible there's no money there. It's hard to believe we didn't turn over 600-650m last season. 

[Harry Squatter]

And when we drop out of the top 4 the excuses about missing CL money qnd not being able to attract players whilst being out of the CL will kick in.

 

Billy Hogan stated that next year the club will be firing on all cylinders because of the Nike deal. So we can only function proper with the Nike deal on top of all the new sponsorship deals, CL money with 3 finals, PL money going up, every game being sold out out, selling memberships where you're almost never going to get a ticket.

 

They always bring up a new excuse to put off spending. When Klopp arrived we needed to consistently get the top 4. When the new stand was being built it was the extra £25m it brings will boost the revenue, then we need to perform better commercially, Covid which affected everyone (mostly Everton though) and now we need the full benefits of the new kit deal after they were hell bent on binning off NB. 

 

The two new stands cost £190m together but one was built 6 years ago so some of that will have been paid back. He was even going on the other week about naming rights for the Anfield Road end. Its not like we have to find £600m-£900m like other clubs who've built/are building new grounds. 

 

They were probably gutted that the ESL didn't happen because it was guaranteed revenue every season.

[Barrington Womble]

29 minutes ago, Harry Squatter said:

And when we drop out of the top 4 the excuses about missing CL money qnd not being able to attract players whilst being out of the CL will kick in.

 

Billy Hogan stated that next year the club will be firing on all cylinders because of the Nike deal. So we can only function proper with the Nike deal on top of all the new sponsorship deals, CL money with 3 finals, PL money going up, every game being sold out out, selling memberships where you're almost never going to get a ticket.

 

They always bring up a new excuse to put off spending. When Klopp arrived we needed to consistently get the top 4. When the new stand was being built it was the extra £25m it brings will boost the revenue, then we need to perform better commercially, Covid which affected everyone (mostly Everton though) and now we need the full benefits of the new kit deal after they were hell bent on binning off NB. 

 

The two new stands cost £190m together but one was built 6 years ago so some of that will have been paid back. He was even going on the other week about naming rights for the Anfield Road end. Its not like we have to find £600m-£900m like other clubs who've built/are building new grounds. 

 

They were probably gutted that the ESL didn't happen because it was guaranteed revenue every season.

There's no probably about it. They were widely reported as being the ring leaders. 

[HBenn]

35 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

It's not even just the sponsorship. The runs in all the cups, especially the CL must have boosted the bank account no end. We turned over almost 500m in the full covid season. We've followed that up playing every game we possibly can last season and finished 2nd. Plus we should have got the benefit of the Nike deal with the pandemic over. It feels incredible there's no money there. It's hard to believe we didn't turn over 600-650m last season. 

Its not just that. I distinctly remember Paul Gorst saying that a proportion of the Redbird money went towards stadium expansion and that would allow us to continue relatively business as usual. 

So, relative to the vast majority of clubs, we were in a great position at the end of the pandemic and that has improved vastly in line with the points you made. 

[Barrington Womble]

Just now, HBenn said:

Its not just that. I distinctly remember Paul Gorst saying that a proportion of the Redbird money went towards stadium expansion and that would allow us to continue relatively business as usual. 

So, relative to the vast majority of clubs, we were in a great position at the end of the pandemic and that has improved vastly in line with the points you made. 

I would feel sure if money from redbird was used for the Annie road, there will have been an interest rate attached to it and it'll need paying back. It 100% won't be a gift. I would imagine they probably just helped a little with cash flow when there was nobody coming through the turnstiles. 

[HBenn]

31 minutes ago, Harry Squatter said:

And when we drop out of the top 4 the excuses about missing CL money qnd not being able to attract players whilst being out of the CL will kick in.

 

Billy Hogan stated that next year the club will be firing on all cylinders because of the Nike deal. So we can only function proper with the Nike deal on top of all the new sponsorship deals, CL money with 3 finals, PL money going up, every game being sold out out, selling memberships where you're almost never going to get a ticket.

 

They always bring up a new excuse to put off spending. When Klopp arrived we needed to consistently get the top 4. When the new stand was being built it was the extra £25m it brings will boost the revenue, then we need to perform better commercially, Covid which affected everyone (mostly Everton though) and now we need the full benefits of the new kit deal after they were hell bent on binning off NB. 

 

The two new stands cost £190m together but one was built 6 years ago so some of that will have been paid back. He was even going on the other week about naming rights for the Anfield Road end. Its not like we have to find £600m-£900m like other clubs who've built/are building new grounds. 

 

They were probably gutted that the ESL didn't happen because it was guaranteed revenue every season.

Yes, and we are paying back our own owners with interest for the main stand! 

 

Maybe some journos should be asking if we cannot compete now, after getting to all the major finals then maybe the financial model doesn't really work?;

[Barrington Womble]

1 minute ago, HBenn said:

Yes, and we are paying back our own owners with interest for the main stand! 

 

Maybe some journos should be asking if we cannot compete now, after getting to all the major finals then maybe the financial model doesn't really work?;

This is the point I think. We've had constant qualification for the CL. Been to 3 of 5 champions League finals and have won a title with some good seasons thrown in - which is rewarded with TV and success bonuses. What the fuck are we going to do when we don't have a genius managing the team? 

[HBenn]

Just now, Barrington Womble said:

I would feel sure if money from redbird was used for the Annie road, there will have been an interest rate attached to it and it'll need paying back. It 100% won't be a gift. I would imagine they probably just helped a little with cash flow when there was nobody coming through the turnstiles. 

Maybe they did but I would ask why, if we "borrowed" £100m and it was our brand value that helped raise it, why we are even borrowing it and to add insult injury bring charged interest on it.

 

I know the two of us slightly disagree on this point but for me if that is true it would be the biggest proof that the "we don't put money in.." line is really not accurate.

[HBenn]

2 hours ago, Freddo said:

Wages were too high after last season.  Too many bonus payments.  Thank fuck we came up short for the league and European Cup. 

Frankly it was crazy for anyone to think or suggest that our network of talent spotters couldn't or can't find someone or several players to improve the squad.  

We've got no money and that is what the boss is saying.  

That's utter bullshit and not fair on Jurgen or us as fans given the amounts the club make.  Biggest revenue in English footy and yet a meagre spend year on year.  

Not to really go over this again but if our bonuses really outstrip our successes last season, for a club that prides itself on providing incentivised contracts we would be as thick as they come.

[HBenn]

5 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

This is the point I think. We've had constant qualification for the CL. Been to 3 of 5 champions League finals and have won a title with some good seasons thrown in - which is rewarded with TV and success bonuses. What the fuck are we going to do when we don't have a genius managing the team? 

Agree. We are probably like Utd except for the fact that our owners won't gamble to get back in the big time but also won't Rob us to the extent they have. 

 

They say judge a person by the friends they keep. It worries me how friendly FSG and the Glazers are.

[Red74]

Would any of us be arsed if FSG were taking £20 mill a year in dividends if they were allowing klopp to spend without fear. 

[Carra_is_legend]

We are not spending £20m net this year which we did even under Moores

 

[Moo]

I'm guessing dividends aren't the only way to remunerate yourself?  Someone feel free to set me straight on that. 

[Red74]

It’s laughable when you see the wages the Mancs are throwing at their players yet our published wage bills higher than theirs. 
 

Rashfords been on £200k a week for the last few years and he’d be our 2nd highest wage earner here yet must be way down the list at them. 

[El Rojo]

7 minutes ago, Carra_is_legend said:

We are not spending £20m net this year which we did even under Moores

We're keeping our best players, which is something we weren't able to do for thirty years. There's an additional cost to that and it's a mitigating factor.  

 

We've left ourselves very exposed in midfield, though. Milner's about the only durable one and he'll soon be 37. We should have planned better, particularly in terms of Ox and Keita. 

[Red74]

Does he let these players run their contracts out cos he knows they won’t be replaced properly. 

[Daisy]

11 minutes ago, Moo said:

I'm guessing dividends aren't the only way to remunerate yourself?  Someone feel free to set me straight on that. 

Yes there are many ways to take money out. Consultancy costs, wages etc

[Numero Veinticinco]

Jesus, the HF crew is out in force. 

[Barrington Womble]

19 minutes ago, HBenn said:

Maybe they did but I would ask why, if we "borrowed" £100m and it was our brand value that helped raise it, why we are even borrowing it and to add insult injury bring charged interest on it.

 

I know the two of us slightly disagree on this point but for me if that is true it would be the biggest proof that the "we don't put money in.." line is really not accurate.

Well as you say, I think we disagree on this. I am relaxed that they make their benefit from selling part of their asset. 

11 minutes ago, HBenn said:

Agree. We are probably like Utd except for the fact that our owners won't gamble to get back in the big time but also won't Rob us to the extent they have. 

 

They say judge a person by the friends they keep. It worries me how friendly FSG and the Glazers are.

Well I don't their friends or how close to the glazers they are - it's normal for American sports to put profit for all before team rivalry. But a quick look at how henry made his money will tell you how he's likely to deal with LFC as an entity. It is a vehicle to increase wealth. 

6 minutes ago, Carra_is_legend said:

We are not spending £20m net this year which we did even under Moores

 

Come on carra. Don't you read the papers? Bellingham and 2 others next summer. We're keeping our powder dry because next summer is going to be big. 

3 minutes ago, Moo said:

I'm guessing dividends aren't the only way to remunerate yourself?  Someone feel free to set me straight on that. 

Well they make their money by increasing the value of the club, so if they sell up, they make money. The investment they took from redbird last year means they have now effectively made back their investment money, so every penny they make from selling either the club or parts of FSG is pure profit where LFC are concerned. I don't think they're just ripping us like C&A were. But I'm sure they make a small amount from the mark up they put on the interest payments the club pay on the stands etc - although that is probably no more expensive to LFC than if we were independent as FSG will undoubtedly be able to cheaper than LFC can. 

[Moo]

4 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

Well they make their money by increasing the value of the club, so if they sell up, they make money. The investment they took from redbird last year means they have now effectively made back their investment money, so every penny they make from selling either the club or parts of FSG is pure profit where LFC are concerned. I don't think they're just ripping us like C&A were. But I'm sure they make a small amount from the mark up they put on the interest payments the club pay on the stands etc - although that is probably no more expensive to LFC than if we were independent as FSG will undoubtedly be able to cheaper than LFC can. 

And is there any reason the directors couldn't pay themselves a wage if they wanted to?

[Ronnie Whelan]

I try to be as levelheaded as I can when discussing FSG. In many ways, they are brilliant owners because you can see they have a plan to grow their business and unlike other owners, they learn from their mistakes and appoint the right people.

 

However, they hit the jackpot with Jurgen and with their model, it's hard to see us continuing to compete without him. I mean two oil states, Chelsea, the Mancs spending like drunken sailors, and Spurs and Arsenal getting their shit together and being London clubs which is an advantage rightly or wrongly. I mean we have terrific young lads who could be with us for another ten years and you know he will leave the next manager with a proper good team, but he isn't going to keep turning water into wine. I actually think Nunez will be really good because I saw him play a few times with Benfica, but eventually even Jurgen will sign a dud and with our current model, we can't afford an expensive flop.

 

I think they gambled in January 2021 that we would still get top 4 and down to Jurgen (and big Nat), we did. Problem is that if we didn't, I've no doubt one or two like Mo would have looked to leave last summer. We have an injury crisis with a very good but ageing team - pay the extra 20 million to Dortmund and get an extra year out or Bellingham (or whoever we want). If it is the difference between winning trophies or top 4 and not, it's worth it. 

 

Anyhow, we just need to ride the next few weeks and take it from there. My gut feeling is that with our injuries and our very tough fixture list, if we are within 5-7 points of City by the world cup break, it won't be too bad - I'd actually settle for that right now. Then, hopefully hunt the fuckers down rather than be in a top 4 dogfight which is also a possibility.