Iran Accuses US and Israel

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

That's a fair point about 'homemade' rockets reaching Tel Aviv as its a fair distance isn't it? But the fact remains that Israel could prevent or stop most of their punishment by simply sitting down and negotiating rather than using all its western provided toys on a small group of mostly normal people who hate them partly for not simply doing that.

 

This is largely a one sided conflict but its one which has the potential to cause bigger and more devestating ones.

The rockets that got fired were mid range rockets and believed to be the Iranian-made Fajr-5.

 

But Hamas have claimed that they wernt the rockets fired.

 

They say they some m something or other and made in Gaza.

 

So until something comes out showing exactly what they were,it is who you believe the most.

[ODZ]

We've got maps like that in Europe, you know, legal authority maps. They represent the areas controlled by legal authorities representing the people living in them.

 

It will be fascinating to see the same map in 30 years time.

 

Hopefully something like this, more or less.

 

 

1967 borders with land swaps to minimize relocation on a 1-1 ratio. The land given isn't some crappy desert, for example, expanding the Gaza strip to allow room for Palestinians to build more housing and develop. Refugees have right to return to the Palestinian state and granted full citizenship. Israeli and Palestinian officers playing backgammon together on border gates.

 

It can happen in 5 years, not 30. Both sides' governments just need to want it to happen.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

Since people like to throw this one, thought I'd clear this up a bit.

 

This scheme is very misleading, the guy who made it did a pretty good job of propaganda. The 1946 map doesn't mean anything, it was never in a partition plan. It's just a map depicting Jewish settlements. White marks areas of Jewish populations and green marks areas where there are no Jewish settlements. That doesn't mean Arabs were settling in all of those areas marked in green. The negev for example (the south) was hardly populated at all, but of course it's convenient to make this the first map to add the dramatic effect of Jews stealing land from the Arabs.

 

The 1947 map is the UN partition plan, a plan Jews accepted and the Arabs didn't. The Arabs instead went on to start a war in order to eradicate the Jews and wipe off them of the map. They failed and the lines that were drawn at the end of the war were the 1967 borders. West Bank was controlled by Jordan and Gaza was taken by Egypt. I wonder why Jordan and Egypt didn't grant the Palestinians that lived within their own borders independence? Isn't that weird? They basically had the entire West Bank and Gaza under Arab control and for some reason, Palestinians were occupied by their fellow Arab nations and nobody gave a fuck...

 

The map in 2010 doesn't really mean anything either, it just marks the land that is in full control of the Palestinian authority (by the way, Gaza is completely 'free' of Jewish settlements, so that's important to note). It's not a demographic map, it's more of a legal authority map. It's a bit misleading to think that all the bits in gray in the West Bank are filled with huge Jewish settlements that Israel are occupying. In a two state solution, Palestine will get 100% of the land in the West Bank, 2% will be lands swapped in a 1-1 ratio, a principle agreed by Ehud Olmert and Abu Mazen. That will only require 100,000 Israeli's to relocate. That's not as daunting as what the map suggests.

 

I just couldnt help but think that what your saying about them maps being properganda and not being the total truth.

 

The points you make about how the Jews accepted the UN plan and the Arabs didnt,and the Arab want to eradicate the Jews both not really telling the whole truth but it is only a slight part of both truths.

 

I mean the Jew s accepting the proposal is spot on and I mean seriously if somebody offered me all this land I would take it to,I mean wouldnt everybody?

 

The Arabs not accepting it couldnt be by chance because the land was theres anyway and all that was going on is there owned land being given away to the Jews by the UN.

 

Which if that was me then i wouldnt accept either and would try to take the land back.

 

Then the eradicating bit is in all truth they went to get there lands back and 5 other Arab nations went with them but they got there arses kicked?

 

But just before that there was a mass exodus of Palastians of 100s of 1000s who were so confident of the Arabs winning they all left there homes, leaving behind bascially all they owned as in cash jewellery food etc,thinking they would be back there in a few days time?

 

Plus the fact why would they leave in that number at all if they though they going to win.

 

Also the fact that the Jews were only defending themselves(something they still use today and if you think about this a country vastily superiour to a country with the sum basis of fuck all attacking it) was been told by all.

 

Now that is what was reported at the time and apart from leaving everything behind and the vast number who left as well makes me think it dosent look right.

 

It is only when you then hear that actually the Jews did slightly more then defend and they actually carried on and went to claim the lands the UN had given them,which meant the factually reported minimum of 10 total massacres of the Palastinian people owning the lands,the mass exodus reporting along with leaving all they own behind seem to be maybe to this version than the other.

 

Even further back when British controoled mandate of Palastine I am pretty sure they didnt have the right to just give away land owned by people to another set of people.

 

This happend again with 1947 when the Jews were being handed over 56% of the land for a vastily inferior number of people to the 46% the Palastinians were being given who vastily out numbered the Jews.

 

But to make matters worse around 92% of the land was owned by Palastinian Jews anyway.

 

Then the British I think as well not being as powerful they probably realised they had fucked up gave the problem to the UN.

 

The UN came under immense pressure from most other countries and especially America and pressure to declare a state of Israel as well.

[silverlining]

I just couldnt help but think that what your saying about them maps being properganda and not being the total truth.

 

The points you make about how the Jews accepted the UN plan and the Arabs didnt,and the Arab want to eradicate the Jews both not really telling the whole truth but it is only a slight part of both truths.

 

I mean the Jew s accepting the proposal is spot on and I mean seriously if somebody offered me all this land I would take it to,I mean wouldnt everybody?

 

The Arabs not accepting it couldnt be by chance because the land was theres anyway and all that was going on is there owned land being given away to the Jews by the UN.

 

Which if that was me then i wouldnt accept either and would try to take the land back.

 

Then the eradicating bit is in all truth they went to get there lands back and 5 other Arab nations went with them but they got there arses kicked?

 

But just before that there was a mass exodus of Palastians of 100s of 1000s who were so confident of the Arabs winning they all left there homes, leaving behind bascially all they owned as in cash jewellery food etc,thinking they would be back there in a few days time?

 

Plus the fact why would they leave in that number at all if they though they going to win.

 

Also the fact that the Jews were only defending themselves(something they still use today and if you think about this a country vastily superiour to a country with the sum basis of fuck all attacking it) was been told by all.

 

Now that is what was reported at the time and apart from leaving everything behind and the vast number who left as well makes me think it dosent look right.

 

It is only when you then hear that actually the Jews did slightly more then defend and they actually carried on and went to claim the lands the UN had given them,which meant the factually reported minimum of 10 total massacres of the Palastinian people owning the lands,the mass exodus reporting along with leaving all they own behind seem to be maybe to this version than the other.

 

Even further back when British controoled mandate of Palastine I am pretty sure they didnt have the right to just give away land owned by people to another set of people.

 

This happend again with 1947 when the Jews were being handed over 56% of the land for a vastily inferior number of people to the 46% the Palastinians were being given who vastily out numbered the Jews.

 

But to make matters worse around 92% of the land was owned by Palastinian Jews anyway.

 

Then the British I think as well not being as powerful they probably realised they had fucked up gave the problem to the UN.

 

The UN came under immense pressure from most other countries and especially America and pressure to declare a state of Israel as well.

 

Thank God you're here with your hastily Googled factoids and semi-coherent "Er, here's what I reckon" summaries.

 

Having said that, it's at least an attempt to be objective - albeit laughably ham-fisted - which makes a really refreshing change from the usual one-sided shite:

 

"The West and The Jews are very bad, powerful and horrible and they use super high-tech WEAPONS OF DOOM in order to kill babies. The poor little Arabs are wide-eyed innocents (who in no way at all would position civilians anywhere near sites of military importance), and the rockets they fire are a bit rubbish and basically a bit of a laugh really. Like fireworks or something."

[AngryOfTuebrook]

According to BBC text*, an editorial in the Times calls upon Israel to show restraint, because "The country faces a real risk that every new report of a child or family caught in the crossfire will be seen to erode the rightness of its cause."

 

Yes. That's the problem with sending planes and warships to bomb families. The reports don't always reflect well on you.

 

(*I'm not linking to the Times itself, because it's a pay service - and Murdoch is rich enough without my money.)

[ODZ]

I just couldnt help but think that what your saying about them maps being properganda and not being the total truth.

 

The points you make about how the Jews accepted the UN plan and the Arabs didnt,and the Arab want to eradicate the Jews both not really telling the whole truth but it is only a slight part of both truths.

 

I mean the Jew s accepting the proposal is spot on and I mean seriously if somebody offered me all this land I would take it to,I mean wouldnt everybody?

 

The Arabs not accepting it couldnt be by chance because the land was theres anyway and all that was going on is there owned land being given away to the Jews by the UN.

 

Most of the land they got from the UN partition plan was owned by them. Owned by Jews. Bought by money, not handed over or torn away from Arab hands.

 

Which if that was me then i wouldnt accept either and would try to take the land back.

 

Most of your assumptions are just no true and it's ridiculous that you base your entire opinion on 90% false information and inaccurate history events.

 

Then the eradicating bit is in all truth they went to get there lands back and 5 other Arab nations went with them but they got there arses kicked?

 

7 Arab nations, including the 'Palestinian' population, went to war with Israel to throw the Jews into the mediterranean sea. Their words, not mine. They got their arses kicked by a huge underdog on the brink of extinction.

 

But just before that there was a mass exodus of Palastians of 100s of 1000s who were so confident of the Arabs winning they all left there homes, leaving behind bascially all they owned as in cash jewellery food etc,thinking they would be back there in a few days time?

 

Plus the fact why would they leave in that number at all if they though they going to win.

 

Now that is what was reported at the time and apart from leaving everything behind and the vast number who left as well makes me think it dosent look right.

 

They didn't "leave" everything. There were a lot of different things happening. Most of the population left because the Arab nations told them to leave in order to clear the way for them to come in and get rid of the Israeli's. They thought they'd be back. Some left in fear of the war, some joined the war or attempted to kill Israeli civilians in acts of terror before the declaration of independence. Those who stayed and were living within Israel's borders at the end of war got full Israeli citizenship and rights to live there,something the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza never received from Egypt and Jordan.

 

Also the fact that the Jews were only defending themselves(something they still use today and if you think about this a country vastily superiour to a country with the sum basis of fuck all attacking it) was been told by all.

 

Well that's the truth. The point in time where I think Israel started to get more cocky and aggressive was the six day war. From that point, people started to perform hubris. We were no longer the underdog.

 

It is only when you then hear that actually the Jews did slightly more then defend and they actually carried on and went to claim the lands the UN had given them,which meant the factually reported minimum of 10 total massacres of the Palastinian people owning the lands,the mass exodus reporting along with leaving all they own behind seem to be maybe to this version than the other.

 

There were 'massacres' on both sides. It was war, things got very ugly. Why does no one mention the 800,000 Jews in Arab nations (including my parents) who have fled to Israel and only mention the 600,000 Arabs who have fled Palestine? Why can't I return to my "homeland" of Iraq? Why is this even an issue? Tens of millions of people's homes have been taken away from them in World War II. Tens of millions. They all found a home, except 600,000 Palestinians, who are now 4.7 million Palestinians because in this crazy world, Palestinian refugees inherit their parents' status at birth even if they were born in other Arab countries. Whose fault is this, Israel?

 

Even further back when British controoled mandate of Palastine I am pretty sure they didnt have the right to just give away land owned by people to another set of people.

 

Full of assumptions, no actual facts.

 

This happend again with 1947 when the Jews were being handed over 56% of the land for a vastily inferior number of people to the 46% the Palastinians were being given who vastily out numbered the Jews.

 

But to make matters worse around 92% of the land was owned by Palastinian Jews anyway.

 

Then the British I think as well not being as powerful they probably realised they had fucked up gave the problem to the UN.

 

The UN came under immense pressure from most other countries and especially America and pressure to declare a state of Israel as well.

 

Full of assumptions, no actual facts. Just your own little 'memory' of history.

[AquiMan]

Double post

Edited November 20, 2012 by AquiMan

[ODZ]

Call me crazy but isn't this why Israel was 'returned' to the Israelis in the first place?

 

A Jewish state in Israel was founded in order to provide a home for the Jews. The only home for the Jews. There are 22 Arab nations and over 5,000,000 square miles under their control. Poor Arabs have nowhere to live! Evil Nazi Zionists with their blasphemous idea of having a state to call their own. EVIL, get rid of them.

[silverlining]

Call me crazy but isn't this why Israel was 'returned' to the Israelis in the first place?

 

Israel was "given back" to the Jew as a place for them to call home largely because millions of them were killed and scattered across the world in a variety of pogroms and exterminations, culminating in The Holocaust.

 

Obviously, it's a bit difficult for some Zionist scholars to accept this, and they'd argue that the establishment of the state of Israel would have happened without The Holocaust and WWII.

 

But this is entirely bollocks.

 

Reparations from the (West) German government and resources and approval from a variety of other sympathetic, supportive countries allowed Israel to exist and thrive.

 

Naturally, one might wonder if the way the state of Israel came about has damaged the psyche of the Israeli people; it can't feel great being given your land, rather than taking it, and certainly the Holocaust is a terribly high price to pay for some Middle-East real estate by the sea, and being surrounded by people who hate you is naturally going to make you a bit paranoid and prone to the occasional overreaction.

 

But this spat in Gaza will go the way of all the rest; as soon as the US and Britain tell them to fucking pack it in, after approximately one or two days of hubristic bluster, Israel will do as it's told. As it always does. Because it has no other choice.

[ODZ]

Naturally, one might wonder if the way the state of Israel came about has damaged the psyche of the Israeli people; it can't feel great being given your land, rather than taking it, and certainly the Holocaust is a terribly high price to pay for some Middle-East real estate by the sea, and being surrounded by people who hate you is naturally going to make you a bit paranoid and prone to the occasional overreaction.

 

The Jews had every right to have a state of their own after what's happened to them while the rest of the world stood by and watched. It's not too much to ask after such events to take charge of your destiny and not rely on others to not decide all their problems stem from you and order your extermination.

 

Besides, even without the holocaust, Israel earned their land, it was not given to them. It was earned when 10% of Israel's population died in the independence war. 10%. Dead. Because the Arabs wanted it all, because 22 nations and 5,000,000 aquare miles were not enough, because the Jews should never have one little state of their own. No. They can't have it. They are evil Zionists and their existence is blasphemy.

[silverlining]

A Jewish state in Israel was founded in order to provide a home for the Jews. The only home for the Jews. There are 22 Arab nations and over 5,000,000 square miles under their control. Poor Arabs have nowhere to live! Evil Nazi Zionists with their blasphemous idea of having a state to call their own. EVIL, get rid of them.

 

Yeah, but I sometimes wonder if it would have been better for Israel to have been positioned somewhere...I dunno...a bit less fighty.

[silverlining]

The Jews had every right to have a state of their own after what's happened to them while the rest of the world stood by and watch. It's not too much to ask after such events to take charge of your destiny and not rely on others to not decide all their problems stem for the Jews and order your extermination.

 

 

I agree. I think I said that in my post. Sort of.

[Uncle_Meat]

If only there was some kind of, I dunno, first and last solution to all this. The phrase is on the tip of my tongue.. Ending solution? Something like that.

 

Of course. I jest. This is the GF after all. At least I'm not taking the piss out of the Geordies...

 

Can't help but think that this is part of a double whammy of electioneering, and a bit of housekeeping in preparation for the gloves coming off against Iran.

[silverlining]

If only there was some kind of, I dunno, first and last solution to all this. The phrase is on the tip of my tongue.. Ending solution? Something like that.

 

Of course. I jest. This is the GF after all. At least I'm not taking the piss out of the Geordies...

 

Can't help but think that this is part of a double whammy of electioneering, and a bit of housekeeping in preparation for the gloves coming off against Iran.

 

Well, understandably the West want Iran fucking dealt with, because they're essentially a failed state run by dangerous religious lunatics who fund terrorism across the world. Like many Muslim countries do.

 

So if Israel's "gloves come off" you can bet your last shekel that it's been OK'ed by her pals on this side of the ideological schism.

[ODZ]

If only there was some kind of, I dunno, first and last solution to all this. The phrase is on the tip of my tongue.. Ending solution? Something like that.

 

Of course. I jest. This is the GF after all. At least I'm not taking the piss out of the Geordies...

 

There is. This is what is so annoying to me. The people in power are not interested in peace, the people themselves do and are dragged to extreme views by fear/war/bloodshed.

 

Can't help but think that this is part of a double whammy of electioneering, and a bit of housekeeping in preparation for the gloves coming off against Iran.

 

You can't help but think it because you'd be mostly right. Netanyahu and Barak started this mess for political gain to prevent the left wing from gaining momentum due to economic, internal policies. Think of it as the Republicans in America stirring some shit somewhere to create a perception of their strength in dealing with external conflicts, all while their agenda is holding power so that they don't raise taxes to the rich. It would be a great example to explain to an outsider what's going on here.

 

Take it from me, Israel won't touch Iran. It's all talk, for internal propaganda and to pressure the world and U.S to act. We can't accomplish a successful attack on their nuclear program, we either don't have the means to do so, or the price will be too high to pay.

 

Hamas doesn't mind dozens of dead Palestinians either if it strengthens them in the process, and violence always makes them grow more powerful. Desperate Palestinians look at Hamas as their saviours, when the tragedy is that it is in Hamas' best interests to keep them desperate and fearful.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

Yeah, dangerous ones filled with bloodthirsty religious lunatics who torture and hang people for crimes against Allah, being gay, or foreign.

 

Iran’s perpetual widespread persecution of ethnic minorities, human rights defenders and political prisoners is disgusting and any regime that allows women to be stoned to death needs fucking flattening so that they can start again..

 

And as soon as they give anyone a decent reason to (like having anything resembling a weapon) that's exactly what will happen.

 

Swap Allah for 'God' and swap foreign for black, and then your talking about the US there too.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

The Jews had every right to have a state of their own after what's happened to them while the rest of the world stood by and watched. It's not too much to ask after such events to take charge of your destiny and not rely on others to not decide all their problems stem from you and order your extermination.

 

Besides, even without the holocaust, Israel earned their land, it was not given to them. It was earned when 10% of Israel's population died in the independence war. 10%. Dead. Because the Arabs wanted it all, because 22 nations and 5,000,000 aquare miles were not enough, because the Jews should never have one little state of their own. No. They can't have it. They are evil Zionists and their existence is blasphemy.

 

Stop me if I am wrong here, and I apologise if I am, but was a big part of WWII not about stopping Hitler and his treatment of The Jewish communities?

 

I wouldn't say that was standing round doing nothing myself.

[silverlining]

I think the fact that his beastly treatment of Jews (and gays and the disabled etc) also coincided with Germany's decision to invade Poland and mobilise one of the largest fighting forces in the world was the main reason

[RedRazor]

They'll bombard the Ham and High with letters of indignation, of that I'm fairly sure. And they will be forced from the land that they forced the Palestinians from, I'm fairly certain of that. But they won't be 'wiped out' or annihilated.

 

65 years of accrued bitterness and hatred. I suspect that more than a little retribution will take place.

 

What would happen to the Jews in such a situation?

[ODZ]

Stop me if I am wrong here, and I apologise if I am, but was a big part of WWII not about stopping Hitler and his treatment of The Jewish communities?

 

I wouldn't say that was standing round doing nothing myself.

 

I think it was more to do with Hitler aspiring to conquer all of Europe and bringing it under a Nazi regime. Yeah, that was it.

[ODZ]

65 years of accrued bitterness and hatred. I suspect that more than a little retribution will take place.

 

What would happen to the Jews in such a situation?

 

Well I'd be glad I don't have a sister as I'd hate to watch her get raped and murdered in front of me.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

Most of the land they got from the UN partition plan was owned by them. Owned by Jews. Bought by money, not handed over or torn away from Arab hands.

 

 

 

Most of your assumptions are just no true and it's ridiculous that you base your entire opinion on 90% false information and inaccurate history events.

 

 

 

7 Arab nations, including the 'Palestinian' population, went to war with Israel to throw the Jews into the mediterranean sea. Their words, not mine. They got their arses kicked by a huge underdog on the brink of extinction.

 

 

 

They didn't "leave" everything. There were a lot of different things happening. Most of the population left because the Arab nations told them to leave in order to clear the way for them to come in and get rid of the Israeli's. They thought they'd be back. Some left in fear of the war, some joined the war or attempted to kill Israeli civilians in acts of terror before the declaration of independence. Those who stayed and were living within Israel's borders at the end of war got full Israeli citizenship and rights to live there,something the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza never received from Egypt and Jordan.

 

 

 

Well that's the truth. The point in time where I think Israel started to get more cocky and aggressive was the six day war. From that point, people started to perform hubris. We were no longer the underdog.

 

 

 

There were 'massacres' on both sides. It was war, things got very ugly. Why does no one mention the 800,000 Jews in Arab nations (including my parents) who have fled to Israel and only mention the 600,000 Arabs who have fled Palestine? Why can't I return to my "homeland" of Iraq? Why is this even an issue? Tens of millions of people's homes have been taken away from them in World War II. Tens of millions. They all found a home, except 600,000 Palestinians, who are now 4.7 million Palestinians because in this crazy world, Palestinian refugees inherit their parents' status at birth even if they were born in other Arab countries. Whose fault is this, Israel?

 

 

 

Full of assumptions, no actual facts.

 

 

 

Full of assumptions, no actual facts. Just your own little 'memory' of history.

Ok thanks for all of this and I have found part of what I was looking for from neitehr a Jewish based or Arab site to do with how much land was bought and owned legally.

 

John Wolffe says that while Zionists tend to attribute Palestinian rejection of the plan to a mere intransigence, Arabs have always reiterated that it was rejected because it was unfair: it gave the majority of the land (56 percent) to the Jews, who at that stage legally owned only 7 percent of it,[39] and remained a minority of the population.[40] Mehran Kamrava also notes the disproportionate allocation under the plan, and adds that the area under Jewish control contained 45 percent of the Palestinian population. The proposed Arab state was only given 45 percent of the land, much of which was unfit for agriculture. Jaffa, though geographically separated, was to be part of the Arab state.[40]

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

The Jews had every right to have a state of their own after what's happened to them while the rest of the world stood by and watched. It's not too much to ask after such events to take charge of your destiny and not rely on others to not decide all their problems stem from you and order your extermination.

 

I've sat by reading your utter bollocks as it went unchallenged, but this is beyond hideous. The Holocaust - which I believe is the worst single human tragedy in history; perhaps the worst crime ever to be committed - had nothing to do with it.

 

It's a simple fact. You spoke - incorrectly, I might add - about knowing your 'history', but you don't seem to have a grasp on it yourself. Britain granted Palestinian land to European Atheistic Zionist Jews way before the Holocaust.

 

But if you're right and the Jews do have some right to a state of their own - and I don't believe in Jewish states, of black states, or white states, or Islamic states - what right did Great Britain have to grant the Palestinian land, the inhabitants of which never touched a hair on a Jew's head, to Atheistic Zionist Jews?

 

They had no right to Uganda, the Maldives, or any of the other lands floated as possible places for the Zionist idea to unfold. The statement you've made that horrific crimes committed by Germany gave Jews a 'right' to the homeland of Palestinians, or any of the other places I just mentioned, given to you by Britain, is utterly ludicrous. It defies logic.

 

Besides, even without the holocaust, Israel earned their land, it was not given to them. It was earned when 10% of Israel's population died in the independence war. 10%. Dead. Because the Arabs wanted it all, because 22 nations and 5,000,000 aquare miles were not enough, because the Jews should never have one little state of their own. No. They can't have it. They are evil Zionists and their existence is blasphemy.

 

If I hadn't heard hundreds of people parrot the same line, I'd be aghast. I'm not even sure where to start, it's so hideous. I guess a good place would be to question the sanity of somebody who thinks imperialist war is the same as 'earning' something. Then there's this idiotic view that because 'Arabs' have 5m square miles of land, it's some how wrong for Palestinians to complain about the injustices inflicted upon them.

[ODZ]

've sat by reading your utter bollocks as it went unchallenged, but this is beyond hideous. The Holocaust - which I believe is the worst single human tragedy in history; perhaps the worst crime ever to be committed - had nothing to do with it.

 

It's a simple fact. You spoke - incorrectly, I might add - about knowing your 'history', but you don't seem to have a grasp on it yourself. Britain granted Palestinian land to European Atheistic Zionist Jews way before the Holocaust.

 

But if you're right and the Jews do have some right to a state of their own - and I don't believe in Jewish states, of black states, or white states, or Islamic states - what right did Great Britain have to grant the Palestinian land, the inhabitants of which never touched a hair on a Jew's head, to Atheistic Zionist Jews?

 

They had no right to Uganda, the Maldives, or any of the other lands floated as possible places for the Zionist idea to unfold. The statement you've made that horrific crimes committed by Germany gave Jews a 'right' to the homeland of Palestinians, or any of the other places I just mentioned, given to you by Britain, is utterly ludicrous. It defies logic.

 

Sure, go ahead and distort what I've said to suit your agenda. Also, go ahead and distort the history you seem to be an expert of. The British did not grant "the Zionists" Palestinian land. That land was either bought, or granted by the UN partition plan. The British did not give an inch of "Palestinian owned" land to the Jews. The Zionist Jews first settled in Israel with the blessing of the Ottomans to develop the land. They were never given a land that was settled by someone else by a third party other than the UN.

 

During that same period between 1880-1914, the Ottomans have also encouraged massive immigration of Arabs into Palestine to keep a demographic advantage of Muslims in the area. Arabs who did not own an inch of Palestinian land first settled there in the same time period Jews did, but later claimed that land to be their own within a generation. 'Palestine' was a barren wasteland before 1870, and the population was largely concentrated in major old cities such as Jerusalem, Safed and Hevron. It's funny because if we could turn the clock back to the 1850's, not only do the land the Palestinians claim as their own not belong to them, but they as a nation don't exist either.

 

This point is moot because they exist today, and so do Israel, and we need to get along, and you need to stop whinging over who was first here and who owned what and who stole from who because you don't have a freaking clue and it's irrelevant anyway.

 

But if you're right and the Jews do have some right to a state of their own - and I don't believe in Jewish states, of black states, or white states, or Islamic states - what right did Great Britain have to grant the Palestinian land, the inhabitants of which never touched a hair on a Jew's head, to Atheistic Zionist Jews?

 

Unbelievable. Look up the Hebron massacre, the Safed massacre, the Jaffa massacre.

 

They had no right to Uganda, the Maldives, or any of the other lands floated as possible places for the Zionist idea to unfold. The statement you've made that horrific crimes committed by Germany gave Jews a 'right' to the homeland of Palestinians, or any of the other places I just mentioned, given to you by Britain, is utterly ludicrous. It defies logic.

 

If I hadn't heard hundreds of people parrot the same line, I'd be aghast. I'm not even sure where to start, it's so hideous. I guess a good place would be to question the sanity of somebody who thinks imperialist war is the same as 'earning' something. Then there's this idiotic view that because 'Arabs' have 5m square miles of land, it's some how wrong for Palestinians to complain about the injustices inflicted upon them.

 

Most of the injustices inflicted upon them were from their fellow Arab Muslim brothers. Calling a survival war, an "imperialist" war? Get over yourself.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Just as I thought, more brainwashed bollocks.