Iran Accuses US and Israel

[Delmar]

Err and? They are a group of people, you Delmar. How do you know I am not black? Fool.

 

If you were, you would not use that term. It has a specific meaning. Or if you are, and use that term, you forget your history.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I'm not quite sure why Delmar has a problem with me talking about a lack of nuance. It is, after all, something pretty complex that was condensed into a sentence.

[zigackly]

An ancient problem creating contemporary problems, all of which will be left unresolved by the contributions in this thread. But it allows people to state which side they're on and argue endlessly and sometimes heatedly in defence of their respective viewpoint.

 

Some good stuff, some shite. A bit like the middle east itself, but without the booms and bangs.

 

Nice one. Is it ok if I'm on neither side but think the whole situation is extremely sad, and propagated by a minority of powerful hatemongers?

[silverlining]

Nice one. Is it ok if I'm on neither side but think the whole thing is extremely sad?

 

On the plus side, there is apparently a lack of nonce. Which is good, right?

[ODZ]

and what does this have anything to do with what I said? Israel has a policy of actively encouraging Jews to move to Israel, including offering financial incentive.

 

When did your families parents move?

 

I can't believe you're even going on with this. I love you.

 

My father's family was very wealthy in Iraq. They had to leave everything behind and run away. Arabs in Iraq started hunting down young Jewish women to rape them. There was an increase in violence against Jews and vandalizing properties and stores owned by Jews. They decided to board a ship to Iran at first because it was easier to find a way get to Israel from there, it was not commercial of course, just an industrial ship. They were hidden inside some crater. My father was about 4. He was with his mother and baby sister (my aunt) inside one of the craters. In the middle of the "cruise", my aunt started crying loudly. The crew, whom my family paid to allow them to board the ship, threatened my mother that if she can't keep her baby daughter quiet, they'll have to throw my aunt into the ocean. Auntie kept quiet. Those were good times.

[Delmar]

I'm not quite sure why Delmar has a problem with me talking about a lack of nuance. It is, after all, something pretty complex that was condensed into a sentence.

 

Mainly because I've got a cold and will travel to Nairobi on Friday. I hate long flights if I'm sick. So I'm bored and grumpy. Grumpy especially as I will have to work tomorrow, regardless of being sick or not.

 

And also, given that there are hardly any nuances on TLW anyway, ever, I thought it was a bit rude to call a guy on that.

[Jonjo Baldy]

You are ignoring the fact that there were plenty of Jews in that area as stated by other posters and their history in Jerusalem - as other posters have pointed out, so where are you going with this? The State of Israel exists, what is your suggestion to end the conflict - if Hamas and its ilk won't stop with the rockets and acknowledge Israel's right to exist, what do you suggest? stop looking backwards in order to justify what Hamas is doing - Israel is not going away. The simple fact is, when they stop, Hamas continues.

 

There is a lot of anti American and anti Israeli commentary on here - and lets face it, understandable in this situation, but I only see a few posters with suggestions as to how to end it. The rest is just vitriolic attacks on two countries that frankly, I would rather live in or next to than any Arab state.

 

Where have I ignored this? As I mentioned earlier I personally believe in a one state solution, where the Muslims and Jews live together, this is probably not feasible in todays climate, but I'm not a peace broker and its not my job to do so.

 

If Israel stopped occupying and killing palestinians then perhaps gamas would stop firing fireworks,as usual the israelis always kill the palestinians initite violence, then when the hamas and co fire back, israel crys wolf. :whatever:

 

I think I'm right in saying that it's generally agreed that Arab citizens of Israel are better off than Arab citizens of any Arab country.

 

Lol did you make that up in your dream?

 

You can't have first dibs on the Grand Canyon.

That went when the early American Christians decided that it was expansion, prearranged by Heaven that they take over the whole continent.

They even sing about in the national anthem.

 

Well my religion of canyonism states that I must create the homeland so the king can return and establish the kingdom!

[ODZ]

Nice one. Is it ok if I'm on neither side but think the whole situation is extremely sad, and propagated by a minority of powerful hatemongers?

 

It's not only okay, it's also pretty accurate.

[zigackly]

On the plus side, there is apparently a lack of nonce. Which is good, right?

 

[Jonjo Baldy]

I can't believe you're even going on with this. I love you.

 

My father's family was very wealthy in Iraq. They had to leave everything behind and run away. Arabs in Iraq started hunting down young Jewish women to rape them. There was an increase in violence against Jews and vandalizing properties and stores owned by Jews. They decided to board a ship to Iran at first because it was easier to find a way get to Israel from there, it was not commercial of course, just an industrial ship. They were hidden inside some crater. My father was about 4. He was with his mother and baby sister (my aunt) inside one of the craters. In the middle of the "cruise", my aunt started crying loudly. The crew, whom my family paid to allow them to board the ship, threatened my mother that if she can't keep her baby daughter quiet, they'll have to throw my aunt into the ocean. Auntie kept quiet. Those were good times.

 

Sad story, but this was in the early days when Israel was newly created?

[ODZ]

Sad story, but this was in the early days when Israel was newly created?

 

1950.

[Jonjo Baldy]

If you were, you would not use that term. It has a specific meaning. Or if you are, and use that term, you forget your history.

 

There is nothing with "You people", hate when simple things are artificially made to be "bad", couldn't careless if someone referred to me as "you people", if it's used in a derogatory manner thats another subject, just like any word can be.

[ODZ]

"There was violence", yeh the systematic destruction of Palestinian villages, and please spare the "full citizenship", they are not full citizens, they are second class citizens treated like animal.

 

Do you talk to Israeli-Arabs? I do. I used to study with them at Tel Aviv University. We got political sometimes. They oppose the occupation obviously and some of them complain about the Jewish character of the state and they don't feel like the country belongs to them etc. I agree with them on most things.

 

Then I ask them if they'd move to the Palestinian state if there is peace, and all of them immediately panic and start backtracking. I have never ever met an Israeli-Arab who has said he'd rather live in a Palestinian state. They want to stay in Israel, without it being the "Jewish" state. Basically, they want to live in Israel just the way it is, but remove the Jewish symbolism.

[silverlining]

It's always threads that involve politics, racism or conspiracy theories that really brings out the true *essence* of mong in our mongs.

 

The genuinely intellectually challenged, flailing about trying to disseminate large amounts of information and disinformation, and lacking entirely the intellectual faculties to do so.

 

It's fucking painful

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Why the fuck would they want to live in a Palestinian state at the moment? It's hell. Even when the bombs stop, it's hell. Give it 20 years, and western money, and it might be a decent place.

 

That said, I've been to plenty of places with Arabs and/or Muslims where I'd have little problem living.

[ODZ]

Why the fuck would they want to live in a Palestinian state at the moment? It's hell. Even when the bombs stop, it's hell. Give it 20 years, and western money, and it might be a decent place.

 

That said, I've been to plenty of places with Arabs and/or Muslims where I'd have little problem living.

 

No, I specifically asked them if they'd like to live in a Palestinian state if there was peace, and there was no poverty or anything like that, just to live under Palestinian rule and under their national banner. I asked them that in response to them complaining about the Jewish character of Israel. It was a hypothetical question and still, 100% say absolutely no. Some of them were pretty frank and admitted they would never enjoy the liberty they do here, even if they lived in an Arab nation that was a democracy. They're scared shitless of having only their own people in charge of things, it's pretty funny.

[vanball]

Why the fuck would they want to live in a Palestinian state at the moment? It's hell. Even when the bombs stop, it's hell. Give it 20 years, and western money, and it might be a decent place.

 

That said, I've been to plenty of places with Arabs and/or Muslims where I'd have little problem living.

 

Yes its hard to understand Hank - to live with Jews where there is a premium on education, arts, music etc. or under the mullahs. Secular Muslims can't run fast enough.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Yes its hard to understand Hank - to live with Jews where there is a premium on education, arts, music etc. or under the mullahs. Secular Muslims can't run fast enough.

 

The fact you think that's the choice is pretty fucking daft.

[vanball]

The fact you think that's the choice is pretty fucking daft.

 

I know you like to have the last word, but it will have to wait - nothing daft about it - the question was, if there was peace, where would you prefer to live? I think the answer is clear.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Yeah, it is. It's absolutely clear. Here's another question: Why do you think Gaza and the West Bank are like they are? Probably those sub-human Arabs and their backwards ways, huh?

[Captain]

Nice one. Is it ok if I'm on neither side but think the whole situation is extremely sad, and propagated by a minority of powerful hatemongers?

 

No need to bring the TARTs into this.

[vanball]

Yeah, it is. It's absolutely clear. Here's another question: Why do you think Gaza and the West Bank are like they are? Probably those sub-human Arabs and their backwards ways, huh?

 

Your suggestion that they are thought of as sub human says more about you than me - try to remain calm, you are usually a pretty good poster and I like your stuff on the ff.

 

As to the backwards ways, notwithstanding the noise that religious Jews make in Israel, I would say that the country is way more secular than its neighbours, hence a better standard of life. Many of the educated mulims around the world have moved to more secular states.

 

It was once said of the Palestinians that they have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. As an example, Arafat rejected an offer of land for peace at the Camp David talks.

 

I hope your analysis of the situation extends past stereo types of either Jew or Muslim - in fact, in this case, better to refer to Israelis and Palestinians, don't you think?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Your suggestion that they are thought of as sub human says more about you than me - try to remain calm, you are usually a pretty good poster and I like your stuff on the ff.

 

I'm perfectly calm. I've never noticed you, I don't know who you are, but I do know your views on this subject are abhorrent. They are thought of as sub-human. That's just the reality of it. Their lives are worth less than an Israeli's. That's just reality.

 

But you didn't answer my question. As for Camp David, it's probably best we don't get onto that unless you know exactly what you're talking about. Lack of detail does tend to make my calm... go.

[VladimirIlyich]

The only time I will ever think the words 'underdog' and 'Israel' have credibility is if they ever take up cricket!

 

The Arab countries vastly outnumber them in population but I'm guessing the majority of those populations just want to survive and be able to go about their daily life without intrusion.

[vanball]

I'm perfectly calm. I've never noticed you, I don't know who you are, but I do know your views on this subject are abhorrent. They are thought of as sub-human. That's just the reality of it. Their lives are worth less than an Israeli's. That's just reality.

 

But you didn't answer my question. As for Camp David, it's probably best we don't get onto that unless you know exactly what you're talking about. Lack of detail does tend to make my calm... go.

 

Well, you are, as always, very sure of yourself, and thats admirable. I guess I find your views abhorrent as well, and I assure you that I do not consider them sub human (an awful turn of phrase). I believe that given the circumstances, Hamas does though, they don't appear to value life at all - doesn't matter, what ever the point of reference, we aren't going to agree.