Iran Accuses US and Israel

[RedRazor]

Point of interest:

Jewish population of Jordan - 0

Jewish population of Syria - less than 100

Jewish population of Iraq - 0

Jewish population of Lebanon - less than 100

Jewish population of Egypt - less than 100

Jewish population of Saudi Arabia - 0

Jewish population of Iran - 20,000

Arab Muslim Israeli citizens (not including Gaza or West Bank) - 1.2m.

 

Please feel free to draw whatever conclusions support your arguments.

[ODZ]

Just as I thought, facts I can't contend because I don't know enough about the subject so I'll just keep repeating the histoy I've generated in my head until it becomes true

 

I have a suggestion, let's go back to the 1850 borders. Palestinians can go back to the Arabian Peninsula, where most of them came from, and Jews can leave and spread all over the world like they did before. You can all visit Palestine, take a massive dump and leave it in its pre-1850 state: mostly empty of people and full of shit (unlike the current state of having many people who are full of shit *dadum tish*).

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Ah, that's a clever edit. I don't know enough about it. It's all down to my ignorance.

[torahboy]

If ODZ represents a more liberal, cerebral and tolerant kind of Zionism then the philosophy is more pernicious than I feared.

[ODZ]

Does it matter how much you know about the subject in order to know what needs to happen to solve the conflict?

 

What I'm trying to say is that the Palestinian propaganda of those evil Zionists who've taken their land is just as distorted as the religious nutcases who believe the West Bank belongs to the Jews because our ancestors lived there 3000 years ago. The facts point that both sides have done wrong, no one has a more "legitimate" claim to a land and both sides need to get over it.

 

If we just stopped nitpicking over how it has come to this, and rather focus on how to solve this in order to create a better future, we'd all be much closer to a solution. So many people choose their own "rightous" stand, stick by it and this is why we're stuck in limbo. So many people want to be "right" about it and not enough want to be smart about it.

 

If ODZ represents a more liberal, cerebral and tolerant kind of Zionism then the philosophy is more pernicious than I feared.

 

If I were the Israeli prime minister and I had a mandate to do whatever I wanted to, there'd be peace here within two years. And it's not because I'd be such a talented politician or whatever, it's because I'd genuinely want peace, I'd start talking to the Palestinians about the core issues, make logical and fair compromises, and get a treaty done. It's practically 99% done already, everybody knows the compromises each side will need to make anyway, just make them.

 

Then I'd go to the UN and wave the treaty around with Abu Mazen, and ask Hamas to stop the hostility, let go of their weapons and live safely as free citizens in the Palestinian state. If they refuse to give up their ambitions to destroy Israel, I'll have enough support from the world to get into Gaza by force, liberate it from their rule to prevent them from sabotaging the peace process, hand it over to the Palestinian authority in the West Bank, open Gaza's border to the world and let them live their lives.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Does it matter how much you know about the subject in order to know what needs to happen to solve the conflict?

 

You were the one saying I didn't know enough about it. I can assure you, ODZ, I know a thing or two about this subject. Whether you agree with me or not is unimportant, but ignorance isn't something I'm guilty of. It's just that I've argued against these ludicrous points so many times, it gets tiresome. When it's as unimportant as on a Liverpool forum, I'm not going to spent too much time on it.

 

If you search, you'll find me doing the same with Stronts. It ended up with him saying something like 'you obviously know more than me, but...'. You see, you're right: It's not anything to do with how much you know, when you're blinded, you'll refuse to see. There'll always be a 'but' if you 'believe'. I'll save my breath.

[RedRazor]

If ODZ represents a more liberal, cerebral and tolerant kind of Zionism then the philosophy is more pernicious than I feared.

 

One could argue that if Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Syria exercised a more liberal, cerebal and tolerant form of Islam then they would collectively have a Jewish community that does not fit on a double decker bus.

 

Faced with what is an obvious (but unstated and unacknowledged) policy of ethnic cleansing by all of its neighbours I can understand if Israel had a seige mentality.

[ODZ]

You were the one saying I didn't know enough about it. I can assure you, ODZ, I know a thing or two about this subject. Whether you agree with me or not is unimportant, but ignorance isn't something I'm guilty of. It's just that I've argued against these ludicrous points so many times, it gets tiresome. When it's as unimportant as on a Liverpool forum, I'm not going to spent too much time on it.

 

If you search, you'll find me doing the same with Stronts. It ended up with him saying something like 'you obviously know more than me, but...'. You see, you're right: It's not anything to do with how much you know, when you're blinded, you'll refuse to see. There'll always be a 'but' if you 'believe'. I'll save my breath.

 

It's a shame you haven't commented on the rest of the post, which is much more important than the first sentence. Don't you agree?

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

ODZ, how can I reply to a sentence as lacking in nuance as, "The facts point that both sides have done wrong, no one has a more "legitimate" claim to a land and both sides need to get over it."?

 

The deliberate simplification isn't something I can spend much time replying to; the stripping away of nuance hides a thousand crimes. If you want to talk solutions, then fine. I'd be happiest with a one state solution, but I'd settle for the internationally agreed two state solution.

[silverlining]

One could argue that if Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Syria exercised a more liberal, cerebal and tolerant form of Islam then they would collectively have a Jewish community that does not fit on a double decker bus.

 

 

No, no. They're just misunderstood! And some Jews probably DO eat babies.

[Delmar]

No, no. They're just misunderstood! And some Jews probably DO eat babies.

 

I think you lack in nuance.

[RedRazor]

No, no. They're just misunderstood! And some Jews probably DO eat babies.

 

Only if they are Kosher surely?

[silverlining]

Only if they are Kosher surely?

 

Pork substitute. Yummy.

[torahboy]

One could argue that if Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Syria exercised a more liberal, cerebal and tolerant form of Islam then they would collectively have a Jewish community that does not fit on a double decker bus.

 

Faced with what is an obvious (but unstated and unacknowledged) policy of ethnic cleansing by all of its neighbours I can understand if Israel had a seige mentality.

 

 

I thought that the diaspora all wanted to return to the land that some dead guy had 'promised' them. Why would they wish to live in any of the nations you mention? All this shit is because they claim the specific area they occupy to be their homeland. And the only people actively involved in ethnic cleansing at this time are the Zionists.

 

The Palestinians have a right to have a'siege mentality' because they are under siege. Whereas the poor, persecuted and friendless Israelis (backed to the hilt by the most powerful and militarily prolific nation on the planet, plus a lot of lesser western powers) have only their wealth, weaponry and their hatred of all Arabs to prop them up.

 

Don't kid yourself into thinking the fanaticism is only one way. Zionists hate as well as any Jihadist, and, thanks to the west, they do it with bigger guns.

[Strontium]

Happily it looks like a ceasefire will soon be announced, so the Palestinians will have to go back to killing each other again.

 

Hamas kills suspected collaborators with Israel in busy Gaza City intersection - NY Daily News

 

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Witnesses say masked gunmen have publicly killed six suspected collaborators with Israel at a busy Gaza City intersection.

 

The Hamas military wing claimed responsibility.

 

Witnesses said the six men were pulled out of a van Tuesday, forced to lie face down on the street and then shot dead.

 

Five bodies lay in a pile as a mob stomped and spit on them. A sixth body was tied to a motorcycle and dragged through the streets as people screamed, "Spy! Spy!"

[silverlining]

Happily it looks like a ceasefire will soon be announced, so the Palestinians will have to go back to killing each other again.

 

Hamas kills suspected collaborators with Israel in busy Gaza City intersection - NY Daily News

 

I'd hate to have neighbours like that.

 

A rapid escalation and then equally quick ceasfire is the norm. Israel has been told to back the fuck down by the US and Britain, and does so after a few days of flexing.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Stronts the neutral!

[Delmar]

Extrajudicial killings can be a drag.

[Strontium]

Stronts the neutral!

 

 

I freely admit to not being neutral about Hamas. They are poison. Palestinian people deserve better representatives.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

Extrajudicial killings can be a drag.

 

Yeah, they really can. Israel, as the nation more in breach of international law than any other, know a bit about that. Still, they're more organised than Hamas.

[RobbieOR]

Am I reading this right. Because millions of Jews have been killed in conflict in the past, they deserved to be given a country that wasnt even theirs?

 

Fucking hell.

[Delmar]

Yeah, they really can. Israel, as the nation more in breach of international law than any other, know a bit about that. Still, they're more organised than Hamas.

 

I'd say they are more nuanced.

[Guest Numero Veinticinco]

I'd say they are more nuanced.

 

Well, they're more competent. Mossad is one of the most sophisticated agencies when it comes to extra judicial murder. The IDF are pretty good at killing indiscriminately. They're way better than Hamas at it.

[SCOUSE TAPAS]

Happily it looks like a ceasefire will soon be announced, so the Palestinians will have to go back to killing each other again.

 

Hamas kills suspected collaborators with Israel in busy Gaza City intersection - NY Daily News

There seems to be alot of stuff appearing about a ceasefire and it is all from Hamas.

 

But Reuters are reporting Israel have not yet agreed to one.

Hamas says Gaza truce agreed, Israel says no deal yet | Reuters

[Delmar]

Well, they're more competent. Mossad is one of the most sophisticated agencies when it comes to extra judicial murder. The IDF are pretty good at killing indiscriminately. They're way better than Hamas at it.

 

Given the circumstances, I'd say IDF are way better at killing discriminately than Hamas. And I agree, Mossad is sophisticated.